Yes.
Yes it does.
Even if the baby's name is Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot.
Evil begets evil, even in the real world.
Soldiers fighting for the "right" cause oftentimes commit atrocities. They live with the consequences of that their entire lives.
Killing someone, justified or not, has an intense impact on one's psyche.
I'm sure that mucking about with forces beyond mortal ken also has an intense impact on a character's psyche.
Staring into the abyss will eventually turn you into a monster who thinks that summoning demons or creating undead is an awesome idea to solve all your problems.
It only doesn't make sense if you are using the reasoning of a disassociative psychopath.
You're fine. All babies are chaotic evil.
Everybody knows you'll be fine as long as they are orc or goblin babies, right?
Undead vampire babies? Gotta get em in the heart and put em in sunlight. OOO or use smite and stab em REAL good.
Greg
Default position for gnomes in regards to kobold babies :)
Staring into the abyss will eventually turn you into a monster who thinks that summoning demons or creating undead is an awesome idea to solve all your problems.It only doesn't make sense if you are using the reasoning of a disassociative psychopath.
well summoning demons is okay...but creating undead is downright evil. Smite the beestard.
Is there an Associative psychopath?
Greg
Everybody knows you'll be fine as long as they are orc or goblin babies, right?>:(
Or squishing summoned dolphins.
Greg
Honestly, given all the dolphin horror stories...Everybody knows you'll be fine as long as they are orc or goblin babies, right?>:(Or squishing summoned dolphins.
Greg
Makes me remember someone who considered summoning a giant whale over an enemy, so it would fall and crush him.
For the purposes of the game, striking down evil-doers, for many reasons (but not all reasons), is considered good or neutral. A Paladin killing a demon who was about to commit a murder is a good act. A LN mercenary paid to kill a rampaging wizard is a neutral act. A LE wizard who kills another evil wizard because he didn't like him is an evil act.
The reasoning behind the act is also important.
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Killing babies doesnt make you evil...
WILLINGLY killing babies makes you evil
if killing babies makes you evil, then BBEG's should walk around wearing babies as armor so the pally cant attack them without risking harm to a baby. use a 4 year old as a shield.
Exotic weapon (babies in a sack), weapon focus (babies in a sack), weapon specialization (babies in a sack), improved critical (babies in a sack).
If the pally in full plate gets hit by babies in a sack does he have to atone?
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Killing babies doesnt make you evil...
WILLINGLY killing babies makes you evil
if killing babies makes you evil, then BBEG's should walk around wearing babies as armor so the pally cant attack them without risking harm to a baby. use a 4 year old as a shield.
Exotic weapon (babies in a sack), weapon focus (babies in a sack), weapon specialization (babies in a sack), improved critical (babies in a sack).
If the pally in full plate gets hit by babies in a sack does he have to atone?
Am I a terrible person to find this increasingly hilarious?
Killing babies doesnt make you evil...
WILLINGLY killing babies makes you evil
+1
Am I a terrible person to find this increasingly hilarious?Killing babies doesnt make you evil...
WILLINGLY killing babies makes you evil
if killing babies makes you evil, then BBEG's should walk around wearing babies as armor so the pally cant attack them without risking harm to a baby. use a 4 year old as a shield.
Exotic weapon (babies in a sack), weapon focus (babies in a sack), weapon specialization (babies in a sack), improved critical (babies in a sack).
If the pally in full plate gets hit by babies in a sack does he have to atone?
Not even a little. Me and all my friends laughed like mad.
+42
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Am I a terrible person to find this increasingly hilarious?Killing babies doesnt make you evil...
WILLINGLY killing babies makes you evil
if killing babies makes you evil, then BBEG's should walk around wearing babies as armor so the pally cant attack them without risking harm to a baby. use a 4 year old as a shield.
Exotic weapon (babies in a sack), weapon focus (babies in a sack), weapon specialization (babies in a sack), improved critical (babies in a sack).
If the pally in full plate gets hit by babies in a sack does he have to atone?
is it bad i ran a 3.5 character like this? fighter/blackguard.
I had monkey grip and argued for more babies in a sack. alternatively i could have used giant babies :P
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Am I a terrible person to find this increasingly hilarious?Killing babies doesnt make you evil...
WILLINGLY killing babies makes you evil
if killing babies makes you evil, then BBEG's should walk around wearing babies as armor so the pally cant attack them without risking harm to a baby. use a 4 year old as a shield.
Exotic weapon (babies in a sack), weapon focus (babies in a sack), weapon specialization (babies in a sack), improved critical (babies in a sack).
If the pally in full plate gets hit by babies in a sack does he have to atone?
is it bad i ran a 3.5 character like this? fighter/blackguard.
I had monkey grip and argued for more babies in a sack. alternatively i could have used giant babies :P
Wait Wait Wait, Would that mean Giant Size spell would give you Epic sized Babies to Swing around or Millions of Regular sized babies?
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Wait Wait Wait, Would that mean Giant Size spell would give you Epic sized Babies to Swing around or Millions of Regular sized babies?Am I a terrible person to find this increasingly hilarious?Killing babies doesnt make you evil...
WILLINGLY killing babies makes you evil
if killing babies makes you evil, then BBEG's should walk around wearing babies as armor so the pally cant attack them without risking harm to a baby. use a 4 year old as a shield.
Exotic weapon (babies in a sack), weapon focus (babies in a sack), weapon specialization (babies in a sack), improved critical (babies in a sack).
If the pally in full plate gets hit by babies in a sack does he have to atone?
is it bad i ran a 3.5 character like this? fighter/blackguard.
I had monkey grip and argued for more babies in a sack. alternatively i could have used giant babies :P
I'd want millions of "regular" babies
of course the DM kept ruling the babies died after so much damage, so i had to start using baby wererats (wererats have fast breeding cycle, and have litters). but the wererat parents were good aligned. or sometimes zombie babies (like in dawn of the dead) if i needed to.
of course the DM kept ruling the babies died after so much damage, so i had to start using baby wererats (wererats have fast breeding cycle, and have litters). but the wererat parents were good aligned. or sometimes zombie babies (like in dawn of the dead) if i needed to.
I don't know. I can see using zombie babies as being evil, but living babies just somehow seems more evil. *shrugs* oh well.
Greg
Makes me remember someone who considered summoning a giant whale over an enemy, so it would fall and crush him.
I know where they got the whale idea from. Check this out:
Makes me remember someone who considered summoning a giant whale over an enemy, so it would fall and crush him.
I know where they got the whale idea from. Check this out:
I would argue the dropping whale on someone idea is alot older than that. But I am not going to cuz I am tired from arguing the sanctity of summoning demons :P
Greg
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This is where being a dad is an advantage.
I get to remind myself daily, by reminding my boy, about the differences between right and wrong, good and evil.
And what I say to him, quite often, is that the good guys are the good guys because they choose to do right, even though it is most often the more difficult path. Being good is work.
Yoda might use the flipside of the coin: the Dark Side is not stronger. It's quicker, easier, more seductive.
It may be expeditious to summon a demon to get an answer. You may even think to yourself that even though this is distasteful and you are fraternizing with, even allying with something that eats babies for breakfast, well, it'll all be okay in the end when he advises on the best local facility for recycling cans.
But, no, no it is not right, and it won't be okay. Because Beelzebub here will go right on eating babies for breakfast when he's done giving you trivial advice, and you'll have done nothing to stop it, and really, you'll have benefited from it. Because benefitting from evil, second or third degree, is still benefitting from evil.
I'll use one of my old standbys. Spider-Man does not kill. He does not kill because he believes there is always another way to solve each situation, no matter how hard it might be. Killing would be easy. And he could say that it was beneficial, because killing one crook now might mean saving a life or two later.
But that would mean two wrongs would make a right. And every one of you, of us, had a dad or mom, or grandparent or teacher who taught us better than that.
stuff
Interesting. Actually, there have been people in my life that have said all killing is bad. More of them have said certain types of people should be killed. Myself, I am in a constant flux on it.
My Mother when I was lil' guy, was against captial punishment. Now she is against due process and believes certain folks should just go straight to the noose. Me, notsomuch.
But in REAL LIFE I do not think there are any absolute truths. Sometimes, two wrongs do make a right. Sometimes a bad choice is all we have. Maybe it came at the end of several bad choices, maybe it was the bad luck of the draw. I dunno.
I also know lots of Dad's Mom's Teacher's and Grandparents have set bad examples and done bad things.
The morality I choose in a game has very little to do with real life though. Luckily, there are lots of nice nongrey decisions to make. THIS IS GOOD! or THAT IS EVIL! and I can know so because of spells, or maybe the character's god said so.
And some games, the grey is extreme. Summoning an archon to take out the trash not really evil or good that. Misuse of power? Maybe. But heck, it is that character's power...he earned it. He has the xp to prove it.
As for stabbing babies in the face, I don't think anyone really can see a "good" to that. But that is an extreme. Extremes are easy. That is why we use them. Don't think you will see a serious arguement about how it is a rightous action. But make it a killing kobold children thread...then you are gonna see some action.
The game has killing in it. I wouldn't play Pathfinder/D&D otherwise. In Kingmaker, my character has killed lots of nonmonster race people. In the game, he is a hero. Due process is at the tip of his sword. My first character died in Kingmaker. Might made right that day. And it still does in the game. In real life, Might and Right are not always on the same side.
Anyway, not certain where I am goin' with this .. I just found the post to be very patronizing and making assumptions about personal character as opposed to playing a game.
Greg
Yes.
Staring into the abyss will eventually turn you into a monster who thinks that summoning demons or creating undead is an awesome idea to solve all your problems.
It only doesn't make sense if you are using the reasoning of a disassociative psychopath.
well to late for me i guess... :D
Yes.
Yes it does.
Even if the baby's name is Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot.
What kind of excuse is that, anyway? Someone gave the baby the name of someone really bad and that makes it okay to kill it? By stabbing it in the face? Stab the parents, they were calling their kid Adolf Hitler!
What's the point of this whole thread? Is it some kind of rant that's grown off the discussion about using evil magic, like a mutated arm that's wildly flailing around trying to grab attention from the other two?
What's the point of this whole thread? Is it some kind of rant that's grown off the discussion about using evil magic, like a mutated arm that's wildly flailing around trying to grab attention from the other two?
Alchemists are insidious!
Greg
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Unless you're stabbing them before they can be corrupted to Evil and damned to hell.
As the soul is more important to the residents of the upper (or lower) planes than the mortal life of flesh and blood, the most good thing you can do is kill babies a few seconds after they are born, so that their souls all go straight to the upper planes, as they cannot make the sorts of choices that would send them to the lower planes yet.
The longer that baby lives, the more likely it is to mess up and end up sliding into a lower plane.
The only exception is 'always evil' race babies, that are born evil. Killing them just sends them straight back to the evil planes. They must be kept alive and harshly brainwashed and conditioned until they detect as good, and *then* stabbed in the face, to ensure that they can't backslide into wickedness.
Remember, every time you kill an evil creature, you are increasing the power of evil gods, demons, devils, daemons, etc! Every time you stab a good creature in the face and send it to the upper planes, you are increasing the power of Team Good!
So be good, for goodness sake!
Exception: 'Killing' outsiders only weakens them and they take some time to reform. It's a temporary minor thing, but more or less 'good' to kill evil outsiders, since it inconveniences them. It's not nearly as 'good' as killing a good dwarf and sending that soul upstairs to become a lantern archon or something useful.
Meh. There is a very good in-game reason not to stab babies in the face, regardless of alignment.
Babies are not worth any XP for stabbing them in the face. They don't have a CR!
Except hatchling dragons, 'cause they're worth XP the moment they hatch.
If you're gonna farm for XP, do it right.
:P
Am I a terrible person to find this increasingly hilarious?Killing babies doesnt make you evil...
WILLINGLY killing babies makes you evil
if killing babies makes you evil, then BBEG's should walk around wearing babies as armor so the pally cant attack them without risking harm to a baby. use a 4 year old as a shield.
Exotic weapon (babies in a sack), weapon focus (babies in a sack), weapon specialization (babies in a sack), improved critical (babies in a sack).
If the pally in full plate gets hit by babies in a sack does he have to atone?
In the real world? No.
In pathfinder? Yes. Objectively and quantifiably so.Man I sure love a good dead baby joke.
Yes.
Yes it does.
Even if the baby's name is Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot.
What kind of excuse is that, anyway? Someone gave the baby the name of someone really bad and that makes it okay to kill it? By stabbing it in the face? Stab the parents, they were calling their kid Adolf Hitler!
What about going back in time and killing Adolf Hitler as a baby?
How about as a teenager?How about as a 20-something?
How about the eve of the invasion of Poland?
How about in his sleep?
Also, what if you only PUNCH the baby?
Yes.
Yes it does.
Even if the baby's name is Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot.
What kind of excuse is that, anyway? Someone gave the baby the name of someone really bad and that makes it okay to kill it? By stabbing it in the face? Stab the parents, they were calling their kid Adolf Hitler!
a friend of mine was asked what he was going to call his new born son...
"We decided on a traditional Biblical name...Judas"sad but true...
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a friend of mine was asked what he was going to call his new born son...
"We decided on a traditional Biblical name...Judas"
sad but true...
Are they the Priest family? LOL coz if they are, they're BREAKIN' THE LAW and the vicar said YOU'VE GOT ANOTHER THING COMIN if you want to call your child that..and I bet they are each others TURBO LOVER....I could go on, but i wont :D
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I'm actually quite sure I remember a villain from one of the splat books whose armor would transfer all damage he received to those chained to it. Naturally he used orphans.
I remember that. More sensationalistic and 'edgy' than practical. (Orphans? Really? Were they out of disabled elderly nuns? Scraping the barrel there, in that dig for pathos.)
Seems like it'd be hell on the dodge bonus and on your ability to move around, having to delay your action until uncooperative orphan #4 decides that he's ready to shuffle in whatever direction you want to move. Pretty much constantly flat-footed, I'd think, too. All the downside of a 'three-legged sack race' only with *four* people chained to you...
Plus, human children have junk for hit points. This is clearly a case of 'evil is dumb' or 'for the lulz.'
Four cursed (works in reverse) rings of shield other on a quartet of trolls (or, yanno, zombie hydra, whatever) chained up in your basement seems like it would be a better investment. :)
I was just trying to get that baby before that baby got me!
The discussion in this thread will reach a conclusion in which everybody is satisfied.
Unless you're stabbing them before they can be corrupted to Evil and damned to hell.As the soul is more important to the residents of the upper (or lower) planes than the mortal life of flesh and blood, the most good thing you can do is kill babies a few seconds after they are born, so that their souls all go straight to the upper planes, as they cannot make the sorts of choices that would send them to the lower planes yet.
Sorry, no. All those little blank slates without a patron deity go straight to Pharasma. She'll probably send them strait back via re-incarnation. Only to have you send them right back.
Once that has gone back and forth a few times, Pharasma will get fed up with it and unbear you. Bein unborn is like being born, only backwards.
I'd say that serves you right, but there is no "you".
Yes.
Yes it does.
Even if the baby's name is Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot.
What kind of excuse is that, anyway? Someone gave the baby the name of someone really bad and that makes it okay to kill it? By stabbing it in the face? Stab the parents, they were calling their kid Adolf Hitler!
What about going back in time and killing Adolf Hitler as a baby?
How about as a teenager?
How about as a 20-something?
How about the eve of the invasion of Poland?
I wouldn't do that. Whenever I can run over Gorbacz's front yard with my Panzer, I can claim "customary law". ;-)
Also, what if you only PUNCH the baby?
Yes.
Yes it does.
Even if the baby's name is Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot.
What kind of excuse is that, anyway? Someone gave the baby the name of someone really bad and that makes it okay to kill it? By stabbing it in the face? Stab the parents, they were calling their kid Adolf Hitler!
a friend of mine was asked what he was going to call his new born son...
"We decided on a traditional Biblical name...Judas"
sad but true...
Please tell me his last name was goat!
I'm actually quite sure I remember a villain from one of the splat books whose armor would transfer all damage he received to those chained to it. Naturally he used orphans.
Book of Vile Darkness.
And what a lazy bum! Orphans? Then nobody that was really near them will cry over their deaths! He might be excused if he slaughtered their parents in front of their eyes and made them eat their dead parents' flesh, but otherwise, he will be demoted to a Lord of Insufficient Light for lack of effort.
What's the official alignment ruling on puppy stomping?
Please tell me his last name was goat!Yes.
Yes it does.
Even if the baby's name is Adolf Hitler or Pol Pot.
What kind of excuse is that, anyway? Someone gave the baby the name of someone really bad and that makes it okay to kill it? By stabbing it in the face? Stab the parents, they were calling their kid Adolf Hitler!
a friend of mine was asked what he was going to call his new born son...
"We decided on a traditional Biblical name...Judas"
sad but true...
I really wish I could...
EDIT: Shame his wife wasn't called Rosemary...|
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What's the official alignment ruling on puppy stomping?
Hell Hound puppy stomping is good.
Hound Archon puppy stomping is evil.
If the puppy was someone elses property, it's chaotic.
If you vere unter ordurs, it's lawful.
Tossing Bezikira (hellcat) kittens into a chipper-shredder? Major good karma. Bad for the chipper-shredder, 'though. 'Cause of the DR.
What's the official alignment ruling on puppy stomping?Hell Hound puppy stomping is good.
Hound Archon puppy stomping is evil.
If the puppy was someone elses property, it's chaotic.
If you vere unter ordurs, it's lawful.
Tossing Bezikira (hellcat) kittens into a chipper-shredder? Major good karma. Bad for the chipper-shredder, 'though. 'Cause of the DR.
It says under alignment that killing the innocent is an evil act. I don't know if puppies and kittens are old enough to have committed an evil act.
On that note, my group once had to make a will save or we were forced to guillotine babies.
