With combine extracts you can have both Rage and Enlarge Person and can stick all to the Alchemist class. Just my two cents...
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That's a great suggestion and keeps some Monk options open for unarmed fighting. I just realized I didn't post that the game will be 25 point buy without traits.
Ignore the monk, multiclassing will hurt you. If you need to boost your unarmed damage then get a monk's robe... or Hulk's(monk's) Tattered Purple Pants and boost your strength flat bonuses are so much better than rolled ones (unless you are a rogue).
Try starting with a 15 Dexterity and take Improved Unarmed Strike and Two Weapon Fighting. At 4th and 8th level improve your dexterity to 17 to cover the requirements for improved two weapon fighting and double slice.
Edit
You might want to consider Catch Off-Guard or Throw Anything....
-Latest Victim at the News Report:
I'm telling you this Brute Smacked me silly with a Paladin!!!
The hulk has a lot of things going for him, most notably his infinite capacity to increase his strength.
After probing, the entity Beyonder once claimed that the Hulk's potential strength had "no finite element inside."[42] His durability, regeneration, and endurance also increase in proportion to his temper.[43] Greg Pak described the Hulk shown during World War Hulk as having a level of physical power where "Hulk was stronger than any mortal—and most immortals—who ever walked the Earth."[44]
Supposedly there are other abilities, but they are much more obscure. Perhaps you may want his ability to jump for miles, but whatever.
The Hulk, having limitless potential for strength could either be approximated, or houseruled. For approximation, I'd say the suggestions given just about do it. Focus on things that boost your strength while in Hulk form, and Intelligence while in alchemist form.
1 Barbarian 1
2 - 8 Alchemist 1 - 7
9 - 18 Master Chymist 1 - 10
Take Extracts and feats to make yourself bigger and tougher.
If you're going to dip 1 level into Barbarian, I'd suggest a second.
The second level gets you access to Rage powers and Uncanny Dodge.
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The Bombs could considered out of character for a Hulk-chemist but...
You could use the Precise Bomb discovery with a GM permission along with the Catch Off-Guard feat and do the following.
Bombs are thrown splash weapons but Catch off-guard allows you to use anything as a melee weapon, with the precise bomb discovery you could designate your square as an explosion free square and smash an opponent with the bomb at hand... kinda like the subtle gamma radiation that emits from Hulk's body when he strikes stuff. (As seen at the Ultimate Avengers Animated Movie, while smashing Vibranium-made Alien spaceships)
Consider the Master Chymist Prestige class, the reduced "spell" progression could depict the lack of focus in science (due to the Hulk) as Bruce Banner has. Also it has several tricks that could fill nice your character concept plus a Full BA progression.
P.S. Consider this stolen... next concept, Captain America :D
You can achieve the infinite potential strenght with an old feat from Savage Species: for every 50 damage you take, you can increase your strenght by 2 for the rest of the encounter. That feat is the closest thing to the Marvel Hulk's ability to increase his power
The issue is how to sustain that much damage...
You can get Uncanny dodge and the unarmed strike feats with the Internal Alchemist Archetype.
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You can achieve the infinite potential strenght with an old feat from Savage Species: for every 50 damage you take, you can increase your strenght by 2 for the rest of the encounter. That feat is the closest thing to the Marvel Hulk's ability to increase his power
The issue is how to sustain that much damage...You can get Uncanny dodge and the unarmed strike feats with the Internal Alchemist Archetype.
The feat you mention is Pain Mastery, req: 20 Con,Toughness
Doesnt' seem very 'in-theme' for the Hulk... he's more likely to have Slam attacks if you're going the Natural Weapon route, no?
To truly get the Hulk out of an Alchemist I'd recommend at least a lvl 17 Alchemist/Master Chymist.
At that point you could have the Grand Mutagen and Growth Mutation through use of the Feat Extra Discovery
At that point when you "Hulk out" you'd gain +10 STR +6 Con +2 Dex (Enlarge person bonus factored in) and double in height and weight. You'd suffer a -2 to all your mental stats. If you combine that with the above suggestions of the Manuals and the Belt then you're scores could EASILY be in the 30's for Strength and Con.
25 Point buy in... I'd go with a distribution of scores like this
STR 17
Dex 10
Con 16
Int 15
Wis 9
Cha 7
Starting race is Human I would imagine? Then to reflect the Bruce Banner starting persona I'd drop the +2 into Int raising that to a 17. 4th level point I'd put into Int to raise that to an 18. 8th I'd put into Str raising that to an 18 12 I might put into Con raising that to a 17, then raise Con again at 16th for an 18.
So Banner would have natural stats of
STR 18
DEX 10
CON 18
Int 18
Wis 9
Cha 7
Add the two manuals and you've got which with the belt goes to
STR 23 (29)
Dex 10 (16)
CON 23 (29)
Int 18
Wis 9
Cha 7
and then when he Hulks out his stats go to
STR 39
Dex 18
Con 39
Int 16
Wis 7
Cha 5
Yeah I would go with Master Chemist and a few barbarian levels.
@ lalallaalal - What material are you allowed to use?
The feat you mention is Pain Mastery, req: 20 Con,ToughnessYou can achieve the infinite potential strenght with an old feat from Savage Species: for every 50 damage you take, you can increase your strenght by 2 for the rest of the encounter. That feat is the closest thing to the Marvel Hulk's ability to increase his power
The issue is how to sustain that much damage...You can get Uncanny dodge and the unarmed strike feats with the Internal Alchemist Archetype.
There were actually two such feats. One would increase your strength every time you took 50 damage and the other would increase your strength AND constitution whenever you took 50+ damage in a single attack, if I remember correctly. I believe the latter one was an epic feat.
We had a barbarian a few years back named Yogorin (named after yogurt) who couldn't die from hit point damage because he took BOTH these feats. If you did 50 damage to the guy he would gain 100. You had to take him out in a single MASSIVE attack or else get around the hit points entirely.
We jokingly called him the Hulk and gave him a homebrew magic ring that allowed him to use enlarge person and turn his skin green.
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To truly get the Hulk out of an Alchemist I'd recommend at least a lvl 17 Alchemist/Master Chymist.
At that point you could have the Grand Mutagen and Growth Mutation through use of the Feat Extra Discovery
At that point when you "Hulk out" you'd gain +10 STR +6 Con +2 Dex (Enlarge person bonus factored in) and double in height and weight. You'd suffer a -2 to all your mental stats. If you combine that with the above suggestions of the Manuals and the Belt then you're scores could EASILY be in the 30's for Strength and Con.
25 Point buy in... I'd go with a distribution of scores like this
STR 17
Dex 10
Con 16
Int 15
Wis 9
Cha 7Starting race is Human I would imagine? Then to reflect the Bruce Banner starting persona I'd drop the +2 into Int raising that to a 17. 4th level point I'd put into Int to raise that to an 18. 8th I'd put into Str raising that to an 18 12 I might put into Con raising that to a 17, then raise Con again at 16th for an 18.
So Banner would have natural stats of
STR 18
DEX 10
CON 18
Int 18
Wis 9
Cha 7Add the two manuals and you've got which with the belt goes to
STR 23 (29)
Dex 10 (16)
CON 23 (29)
Int 18
Wis 9
Cha 7and then when he Hulks out his stats go to
STR 39
Dex 18
Con 39
Int 16
Wis 7
Cha 5
Yes that seems to be the best way to optimize "The Hulk" but it feels quite a bit out of character.
Banner is a weakling with great intellect although not a genius, more likely like a focused scientist with angst problems and a vicious alter ego that bursts with anger.
Wisdom shouldn't be dump stat IMO his mental stats should range between 10-12 and a 16 Int should be enough.
Take one or two Levels of Barbarian, make an in-built mechanism to pop in mutagens when raging feel free to reduce intelligence up to -6 when raging don't dump Wisdom in Hulk form. The Hulk has better senses than Banner and almost like a six sense for sensing motives.
Hulk won't smash poor old lady walking down the street but he would gladly pulverize the really old gentleman that wants to cast fireball to him at the end of the round.
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Banner is a weakling with great intellect although not a genius, more likely like a focused scientist with angst problems and a vicious alter ego that bursts with anger.
1. The problem with making Banner a weakling is that, as an alchemist, any lack of Str on his part transfers over to the Hulk form. He's also not really weak compared to regular people...it's not his fault that his peer group consists of guys like Thor and Captain America.
2. Banner is considered one of the top scientists in the Marvel universe, and THE ranking authority on radiation (gamma and otherwise). He's absolutely a genius.3. Stating comic book characters generally doesn't work well, because almost all of them seem to work on a point buy system far far beyond the even the 25 point buy. To use the Hulk as an example, even if you ignore the fact that his Str should literally be infinity and just try to max it out, you have to sacrifice the other stats in order to do so. His Con should be infinity minus one, and his Dex should be pretty good as well. His Wis should be decent, and his Int varies wildly according to which incarnation of the Hulk he assumes. The only really decent dump stat is Cha (Banner is an occasionally jerky nerd, and the Hulk is a big green or grey monster).
Actually with the Maste Chymist prestige class you're ok and don't need barbarian dip. With MC you have double personality (and aspect, which is great for making a big green raging humanoid) and you can mutate without needing of mutagens imbibition. You also mutate against your will when in a stressful situation that demands a fortitude save or you received a critical hit (you can change this to 'every time you get me mad' and voilà):
Mutate (Su)
At 1st level, as a result of repeated exposure to her mutagens, the master chymist can now assume a mutagenic form twice per day without imbibing her mutagen. In this form, she gains all the bonuses and penalties of her mutagen and adds together her alchemist and master chymist levels together to determine her effective alchemist level for the duration of this form. Using a mutagen also forces the chymist into this form. Taking a mutagen or using the mutate ability again while in her mutagenic form works normally (with the new mutagen’s modifiers replacing the current modifiers, and the longer duration taking precedent). The chymist remains in her mutagenic form until its duration expires, her magic is interrupted (as with an antimagic field), or she expends another use of her mutate ability.
A chymist may be forced to take her mutagenic form against her will by stress or damage. Anytime the character is in her normal form and has daily uses of the mutate ability available, she may be forced to switch after suffering a critical hit or failing a Fortitude save. In these situations the chymist must make a DC 25 Will save; if she fails, on her next turn she uses a standard action to change to her mutagenic form (which counts as a use of the mutate ability).
At 5th level, the master chymist can assume her mutagenic form three times per day; this increases to four times per day at 8th level and five times per day at 10th level.
Yeah, the Master Chymist also gets Brutality, so by 10th level his Mutated Form automatically deals an extra +6 to all unarmed and simple weapon attacks.
So, the build I posted earlier which has a +14 strength modifier would be doing a minimum +20 points of damage per blow. Add to that a power attack which could be maxed at -4 to hit and +8 to damage your base bare knuckle damage could be a +28 and that's assuming you don't have an Amulet of Mighty Fists +5 (which the Hulk would have, personally I'd get it as a magical tattoo only usable in his Mutated form) which would pop the minimum damage up to a +33 ....per hit.
If you deviate AWAY from the classic Hulk and go with with Feral Mutation and the Advanced Mutation Furious (along with the Growth Mutation) then you'd be doing 2d6 + 33 with each "claw" attack...and frankly because you're the DM you can say that those claws are actually just the powerful knuckles of the mighty Hulk's fist. Granted, you'd still have a 3d6 + 33 bite (all three primary attacks btw)
and...if you wanted to go the Improved Weapon route... well... wielded two handed the Power Attack goes up 50% so it's bonus would go to a +12 so... yeah. Hulk Smash boys and girls.
I freaking love this thread, cuz I freaking love the hulk.
I played weird Hulk/Hellboy/Spawn character recently in 3.5, and the way I did it there was Barbarian 1/Werebear 8/Warshaper 5
Of course this was 3.5, and to make up for the lack of raging I took every Rage related feat I could. The way I played was that I couldnt "Hulk Out" into Bear Form unless I was raging, and whenever I was attack I had to succeed on a will save to avoid raging unwillingly.
If you really want to get a hulk kind of flavor, I'd suggest doing something like this. True, in World War Hulk and all those Red Hulk storylines (and even before to a certain extent) The Hulk is basically a super strong version of ol' BB, but what I really loved about the character is how Bruce couldn't control the Hulk. He's a physicist, a scientist seeking ultimate power, and he has it, he just can't control it.
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I hate to break it to you, but an 18 strength is not average, it is near the top of the scale for a human, I just don't see Bruce as a body builder with rippling muscles. Bruce's strength should be around 10 or 11, I don't like the idea of making an 18 strength average, just because there are some superheroes around with a strength of 30
Any my point is that, if you stat him up as an alchemist using Pathfinder rules, every point of strength that you drop for the Banner form transfers over to a drop in strength for the Hulk form.
He has two different sets of stats, one in Banner form and the other in Hulk Form. With a point buy system, most of his points should be concentrated in his Hulk form, and as a superhero, he should be alotted more than 25.
Again, the discussion had largely centered on stating him up as an alchemist. Alchemists don't get to re-distribute their stats completely when they mutate, they get a static bonus added. In fact, even if we move beyond the alchemist, there's nothing in Pathfinder that allows a (for example) 15 point stat buy base form, and 30 point "mutated" form.
