Tom_Kalbfus's page

vidmaster wrote:

you know it won't happen though not to be negative but wizards has the property's for that.

Last I heard, WotC lost the license. Or released it, rather. Furthermore, rumours has it that Mongoose Publishing tried to acquire it, but were beat to the punch by another, mysterious company.

Could be Paizo. Could be FFG. Could be someone else entirely! I don't think anything has been revealed yet.

If you substitute magic for the Force, it is not really Star Wars anymore.

What if you had Pathfinder with Star Wars Tech only in a Galaxy spanning setting, with no Force, only the Pathfinder rules of Magic and the Pathfinder character classes?

New skills could be adapted for the various character classes to deal with the high tech stuff. There is no reason why a fighter couldn't fly a starship if given access to the right feats and skills to do so.

If one wants a fighter jock, simply give a fighter access to the appropriate skills and feats to operate and pilot an X-Wing fighter for example. The D20 Star Wars RPG has plenty of tech, one simply has to reassign which Pathfinder classes get what skills and feats. I think the flavor of the setting would be decidedly more magical than Star Wars, with no dependencies on Magic either as in DragonStar, hyperdrives work just fine with no wizards around.

Table 7 Trick/Trap
d20 Result
1-5 Secret Door unless unlocated, make a perception check to locate DC 17,
6-7 Pit, 10 feet deep, DC 17 to located, Make Reflex save DC 16 to avoid falling in
8 Pit, 10 feet deep with spikes pointed upward at the bottom, see previous entry to detect and avoid.
9 A section of floor the party has stepped on, up to 20 feet by 20 feet square descends slowly one level (10 feet) revealing a door roll a d20 to determine location of door. 1-5 ahead, 6-10 left, 11-15 right, 16-20 behind, then roll a d20 and check table 2 "Space beyond Door is: if the door is opened.
10 As 9 above, but the elevator floor descends 2 levels. (20 feet)
11 As 9 above, but room descends 2-5 levels - 1 upon entering the elevator and 1 additional level each time an unsuccessful attempt at opening the door is made, or until it descends as far as it can. This will not ascend for 10 hours.
12 Wall 10 feet behind party slides across passage blocking it for 7 to 10 hours.
13 Oil (equal to 1 flask) pours on a random person from a hole in the ceiling, followed by a flaming cinder, (2d6 points of damage unless successful reflex save is made, which indicates only 1d3 points of damage.
14 Pit, 10 feet deep see entry 6-7 for how to avoid, if someone falls in, the pressure plate he lands on triggers a mechanism causing the walls of the pit to move together crushing victim(s) in 2-5 rounds.
15 Arrow trap, 1-3 arrows, +1 to hit, 1 in 20 is poisoned, fortitude check to negate. (DC 16)
16 Spear trap, 1-3 spears, +1 to hit, 1 in 20 is poisoned, fortitude check to negate. (DC 16)
17 Gas; party has detected it, fortitude check to negate (DC 16), but must breathe it to continue down the corridor, as it covers 60 feet ahead. Mark map accordingly regardless of turning back or not. (see table 7a)
18 Door falls outward, (Reflex save DC 16 to avoid) causes 1d10 points of damage to those it hits, or a stone falls from the ceiling (Reflex save DC 16 to avoid) causing 2d10 points of damage to each person failing his saving throw.
19 Illusionary wall conceiling a pit 10 feet deep with spikes on the bottom (Perception check DC 19 to detect, Reflex check DC 16 to avoid)
20 As 19 with illusionary wall conceiling it, but is a chute down 1 level (10 feet) instead of a pit, as the chute is slanted towards the bottom no damage is inflicted.

Table 7a Gas Subtable
d20 result
1-7 Only effect is to obscure vision when passing through
8-9 Blinds for 1-6 turns after passing through.
10-12 Fear: run back 120 feet
13 Sleep for 20 to 120 minutes
14-18 Strength: adds 1-6 points of strength to all fighters, warriors, paladins, Rangers, and Barbarians in the party for 1 to 10 hours
19 Sickness: Lose 1-6 points of strength until return to surface
20 Poison, death in 10 to 100 minutes.

That should do it. You can invent your own tables for monsters and treasure or use exiting ones if you like.

I think doing Earth's Solar System, lets call it Urthe, would work if we divided the Solar System up into two pieces, the inner solar system, which would consist of Mercury, Venus, Earth, Moon, Mars and Phobos, and Deimos, which would orbit a sun like our own,

and the Outer Solar System consisting of the Asteroid Belt, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune and some dwarf planets, which would orbit a larger sun with 1.75 times our Suns Mass and which is 6.5 times as bright, in astronomical terms it would be a type G0 IV star or a subgiant. The asteroid belt would receive as much average illumination as the Urthe does orbiting the smaller dimmer sun. Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune would have their own satellites turned into little fire bodies to compensate for their increased distance from the second brighter Sun. The diameter of the crystal sphere which would house this Solar System would be 250 Astronomical units, to take into account that the two stars would be separated by 90 AU to keep the planets in stable orbits.

Table 5u Treasure
d100 Result without Monster
01-25 3d6*100 copper pieces/level
26-50 3d6*100 silver pieces/level
51-65 3d4*100 silver pieces/level + 1d4*100 gold pieces/level (mixed)
66-80 2d4*100 gold pieces/level
81-90 3d6*10 platinum pieces/level
91-94 1d4 gems/level
95-97 1 art object/level
98-00 Magic (roll once on the Magic Items Table)*
*Pick your favorite Treasure Table from the Core Rulebook or whatever resource you prefer and roll up an appropriate magic item.

If the treasure is in a room/chamber with a monster encounter roll on Table 5u one more time and add to the previous result.

Table 6 Stairs
d20 Result
1-5 Down 1 level
6 Down 2 levels
7 Down 3 levels
8 Up 1 level
9 Up dead end
10 Down dead end
11 Chimney up 1 level, passage continues into darkness
12 Chimney up 2 levels, passage continues into darkness
13 Chimney down 2 level, passage continues into darkness
14-16 Trap door, drop 1 level, (10 feet) unless reflex save DC 16. Perception DC 15
17 Trap door, drop 2 levels, (20 feet) unless reflex save DC 16.
Perception DC 15
18-20 Up 1 then down 2, chamber at end, roll Table 5.

on a roll of 1-8(d20) go to Table 5r otherwise got to Table 5s.
Table 5r "The Treasure is Hidden By/In
(Check each of the following possibilities on this table below and then roll a d20 to see if the result matches the possibility your checking for, roll again for each possibility you check until you have a match.)
d20 Result
1-3 Invisibility
4-5 Illusion (to change or hide appearance)
6 Secret space under container
7-8 Secret compartment in container
9 Inside ordinary item in plain view
10 Disguised to appear as something else
11 Under a heap of trash/dung
12-13 Under a loose stone in the floor
14-15 Behind a loose stone in the wall
16-20 In a secret room nearby

Table 5s "The Treasure is contained in ..." Lair Treasure*
d20 Result
1-2 Bags
3-4 Sacks
5-6 Small Coffers
7-8 Chests
9-10 Huge Chests
11-12 Pottery Jars
13-14 Metal Urns
15-16 Stone Containers
17-18 Iron Trunks
19-20 Loose
* Check for traps if desired and then roll a d20, go to Table 5t on a roll of 1-8(d20) otherwise go directly to Table 5u.

Table 5t "Treasure is guarded by ...
d20 Result
1-2 Contact poison on container
3-4 Contact poison on treasure
5-6 Poisoned needles in lock
7 Poisoned needles in handles
8 Spring darts firing from front of container
9 Spring darts firing from top of container
10 Spring darts firing from inside bottom of container
11-12 Blade scything across inside
13 Poisonous insects (scorpions) or reptiles (snakes) living inside container
14 Gas released by opening container (1-10 sleep, 11-20 poison)
15 Trapdoor opening in front of container (fall 10 feet unless reflex save)
16 Trapdoor opening 6 feet in front of container (fall 10 feet unless reflex save)
17 Stone block dropping in front of container (fall 10 feet unless reflex save)
18 Spears released from walls when container opened (+1 to hit)
19 Explosive Ruins
20 Symbol

Here's the fun part.

Table 5p Chamber or Room Contents
d20 Result
1-5 Empty
6-10 Monster and individual treasure only (carried on monster)
11-15 Monster and lair treasure (Room is monsters lair, treasure in chest etc.)
16-18 Lair treasure only. (May be guarded by traps etc)
19 Special* or contains stairway up one level (1-5), up 2 levels (7-8), down 1 level (9-14) down 2 levels (15-19), or down 3 levels (20).
20 Trick Trap
* A special preprepared room may be substituted for a set of stairs. If there is a number of special rooms use those first before going to stairs.

Monster encounters from the GM's guide or core rule book may be substituted for the following tables where appropriate. These tables are taken from the 1st edition DMs Guide, it includes only creatures that are found in the Bestiary or GMs guide NPCs with other creatures substituted for those found in the original tables if the entry in not found in the Pathfinder books.

Table 5p Dungeon Random Monster Level Determination Matrix 1st level
d20 Result
1-16 Monster Level 1
17-19 Monster Level 2
20 Monster Level 3

Monster Level 1
d100 Result
01-02 1-4 Giant Ants, pg 16 Bestiary
03-04 1-4 Giant centipedes, pg 43 Bestiary
05-14 1-4 Fire beetles, pg 33 Bestiary
15 1 spider swarm, pg 258 Bestiary
16-17 4-14 Dwarf warriors, pg 286 GameMastery Guide "Foot Soldier" (modify for race)
18 1 choker, pg 45 Bestiary
19 3-11 Elf warriors, pg 286 GameMastery Guide "Foot Soldier" (modify for race)
20-21 5-15 Gnome warriors, pg 286 GameMastery Guide "Foot Soldier" (modify for race)
22-26 6-15 Goblins, pg 156 Beastiary
27-28 9-16 Halfling warriors, pg 286 GameMastery Guide "Foot Soldier" (modify for race)
29-33 2-8 Hobgoblins, pg 175 Beastiary
34-48 Human - see subtable below
49-54 6-18 Kobolds, pg 183 Beastiary
55-66 1-3 Orcs, pg 222 Beastiary
67-70 1 skeletal champion, pg 252 Beastiary
71-83 5-20 Dire rats, pg 232 Beastiary
84-96 1-4 ghouls, pg 146 Beastiary
97-98 1-4 Skeletons (Human), pg 250 Beastiary
99-100 1-3 Zombies (Human), pg 288 Beastiary

Monster Level 1: Human Subtable
d100 Result
01-25 5-15 Bandits, pg 258 GameMastery Guide
26-30 3-9 Vikings, pg 281 GameMastery Guide
31-45 5-15 Cannibals, pg 306 GameMastery Guide
46-100 2-5 Characters (A chance to replace fallen player characters) See Character Subtable

Character Subtable
d100 Result
01-17 level 1 Cleric, pg 38 Core Rulebook
18-20 level 1 Druid, pg 48 Core Rulebook
21-50 level 1 Fighter, pg 55 Core Rulebook
51-60 level 1 Barbarian, pg 31 Core Rulebook
61-62 level 1 Paladin, pg 60 Core Rulebook
63-65 level 1 Ranger, pg 64 Core Rulebook
66-86 level 1 Wizard, pg 77 Core Rulebook
87-88 level 1 Sorcerer, pg 70 Core Rulebook
89-98 level 1 Rogue, pg 67 Core Rulebook
99 level 1 Monk, pg 56 Core Rulebook
100 level 1 Bard, pg 34 Core Rulebook

there use to be a native american game by TSR, i cannot remember if it was ad&d out or second ed. but google it up, it was in fogotten realms.

just pointing it out.

Anyhow.....i agree,if you start messing witht he elder outside gods, then perhaps you should leave best alone ;-)

It was part of the Forgotten Realms setting, a continent called Matizca it was on the other side of thr Tractless Sea, they had a few adventures there dealing with conflicts between Helmsport colonists and the natives, by the third edition it was largely ignored and by the 4th edition it was erased from Toril and replaced with something else on the western side of the Tractless Sea. One of the things that alienated me from Wizards is their tendency to rework entire continents, and their sinking of Al QUAM into the ocean so there were no more Arabian Adventures.

I think a "Vikings and Indians" campaign would be interesting.

Another possibility is someone in your party cast Charm Monster on the Succubus, and the succubus failed her Will saving throw.

Another take on it is simple, she charmed you, and she decided that she liked you well enough to turn you to evil rather than just drain your life energy. The succubus decided she needed someone to guard her flanks while she found opportunities to drain other souls. If it furthers her ends more to keep a powerful character at her side than it does just to drain him, she may do the former, for a while. When she grows bored of you and perhaps finds a better character to replace you, then your history. Succubi don't break up with their boyfriends, they Energy drain them instead.

Table 5i-m exit width and direction

Table 5i For walls 1-2 '5-foot' squares in length
d20 Result
1-12 straight ahead into darkness, one 5-foot square wide.
13-16 45 degrees left into darkness, one 5-foot square wide. (1.41 squares wide at opening from chamber to get a corridor that is 1 square wide.)
17-20 45 degrees right into darkness, one 5-foot square wide. (1.41 squares wide at opening from chamber to get a corridor that is 1 square wide.)

Table 5j For walls 3-4 '5-foot' squares in length
(for passages greater than 1 square wide, use the squares following the checked square, and if there are none following, use preceding squares along wall.)
d20 Result
1-4 straight ahead into darkness, one 5-foot square wide.
5-12 straight ahead into darkness, two 5-foot squares wide.
13 45 degrees left into darkness, one 5-foot square wide. (1.41 squares wide at opening from chamber to get a corridor that is 1 square wide.)
14-16 45 degrees left into darkness, two 5-foot suares wide. (2.83 squares wide at opening from chamber.)
17 45 degrees right into darkness, one 5-foot square wide. (1.41 squares wide at opening from chamber to get a corridor that is 1 square wide.)
18-20 45 degrees right into darkness, two 5-foot squares wide. (2.83 squares wide at opening from chamber.)

Table 5k for walls 5-6 '5-foot' squares long.
(for passages greater than 1 square wide, use the squares following the checked square, and if there are none following, use preceding squares along wall.)
d20 Result
1-4 straight ahead into darkness, one 5-foot square wide.
5-11 straight ahead into darkness, two 5-foot squares wide.
12 straight ahead into darkness, three 5-foot squares wide.
13 45 degrees left into darkness, one 5-foot square wide. (1.41 squares wide at opening from chamber to get a corridor that is 1 square wide.)
14-15 45 degrees left into darkness, two 5-foot squares wide. (2.83 squares wide at opening from chamber.)
16 45 degrees left into darkness, three 5-foot squares wide. (4.24 squares wide at base.)
17 45 degrees right into darkness, one 5-foot square wide. (1.41 squares wide at opening from chamber to get a corridor that is 1 square wide.)
18-19 45 degrees right into darkness, two 5-foot squares wide. (2.83 squares wide at opening from chamber.)
20 45 degrees right into darkness, three 5-foot squares wide. (4.24 squares wide at base.)

Table 5L for walls 7-11 '5-foot' squares long.
(for passages greater than 1 square wide, use the squares following the checked square, and if there are none following, use preceding squares along wall.)
d20 Result
1-3 straight ahead into darkness, one 5-foot square wide.
4-9 straight ahead into darkness, two 5-foot squares wide.
10-11 straight ahead into darkness, three 5-foot squares wide.
12 straight ahead into darkness, four 5-foot squares wide.
13 45 degrees left into darkness, one 5-foot square wide. (1.41 squares wide at opening from chamber to get a corridor that is 1 square wide.)
14-15 45 degrees left into darkness, two 5-foot squares wide. (2.83 squares wide at opening from chamber.)
16 45 degrees left into darkness, three 5-foot squares wide. (4.24 squares wide at base.)
17 45 degrees right into darkness, one 5-foot square wide. (1.41 squares wide at opening from chamber to get a corridor that is 1 square wide.)
18-19 45 degrees right into darkness, two 5-foot squares wide. (2.83 squares wide at opening from chamber.)
20 45 degrees right into darkness, three 5-foot squares wide. (4.24 squares wide at base.)

Table 5m for walls 12-15 '5-foot' squares long
(for passages greater than 1 square wide, use the squares following the checked square, and if there are none following, use preceding squares along wall.)
d20 Result
1-2 straight ahead into darkness, one 5-foot square wide.
3-8 straight ahead into darkness, two 5-foot squares wide.
9-10 straight ahead into darkness, three 5-foot squares wide.
11 straight ahead into darkness, four 5-foot squares wide.
12 straight ahead into darkness, six 5-foot squares wide.
13 45 degrees left into darkness, one 5-foot square wide. (1.41 squares wide at opening from chamber to get a corridor that is 1 square wide.)
14 45 degrees left into darkness, two 5-foot squares wide. (2.83 squares wide at opening from chamber.)
15 45 degrees left into darkness, three 5-foot squares wide. (4.24 squares wide at base.)
16 45 degrees left into darkness, four 5-foot squares wide. (5.65 squares wide at base.)
17 45 degrees right into darkness, one 5-foot square wide. (1.41 squares wide at opening from chamber to get a corridor that is 1 square wide.)
18 45 degrees right into darkness, two 5-foot squares wide. (2.83 squares wide at opening from chamber.)
19 45 degrees right into darkness, three 5-foot squares wide. (4.24 squares wide at base.)
20 45 degrees right into darkness, four 5-foot squares wide. (5.65 squares wide at base.)

Table 5n for walls 12-19 '5-foot' squares long
(for passages greater than 1 square wide, use the squares following the checked square, and if there are none following, use preceding squares along wall.)
d20 Result
1-2 straight ahead into darkness, one 5-foot square wide.
3-8 straight ahead into darkness, two 5-foot squares wide.
9 straight ahead into darkness, three 5-foot squares wide.
10 straight ahead into darkness, four 5-foot squares wide.
11 straight ahead into darkness, six 5-foot squares wide.
12 straight ahead into darkness, eight 5-foot squares wide.
(roll 1d6, on 1-2 columns down the center, 3-4 double row of columns as in table 3b, 5-6 passage is flooded forming an underground river)
13 45 degrees left into darkness, one 5-foot square wide. (1.41 squares wide at opening from chamber to get a corridor that is 1 square wide.)
14 45 degrees left into darkness, two 5-foot squares wide. (2.83 squares wide at opening from chamber.)
15 45 degrees left into darkness, three 5-foot squares wide. (4.24 squares wide at base.)
16 45 degrees left into darkness, four 5-foot squares wide. (5.65 squares wide at base.)
17 45 degrees right into darkness, one 5-foot square wide. (1.41 squares wide at opening from chamber to get a corridor that is 1 square wide.)
18 45 degrees right into darkness, two 5-foot squares wide. (2.83 squares wide at opening from chamber.)
19 45 degrees right into darkness, three 5-foot squares wide. (4.24 squares wide at base.)
20 45 degrees right into darkness, four 5-foot squares wide. (5.65 squares wide at base.)

Table 5o for walls 20-23 '5-foot' squares long
(for passages greater than 1 square wide, use the squares following the checked square, and if there are none following, use preceding squares along wall.)
d20 Result
1-2 straight ahead into darkness, one 5-foot square wide.
3-4 straight ahead into darkness, two 5-foot squares wide.
5-6 straight ahead into darkness, three 5-foot squares wide.
7 straight ahead into darkness, four 5-foot squares wide.
8 straight ahead into darkness, six 5-foot squares wide.
9 straight ahead into darkness, eight 5-foot squares wide.
(roll 1d6, on 1-2 columns down the center, 3-4 double row of columns as in table 3b, 5-6 passage is flooded forming an underground river)
10 straight ahead into darkness, ten 5-foot squares wide.
(roll 1d6, on 1-3 double row of columns as in table 3b, 4-6 columns right and left support upper galleries 20 feet above as in table 3b)
11 45 degrees left into darkness, one 5-foot square wide. (1.41 squares wide at opening from chamber to get a corridor that is 1 square wide.)
12 45 degrees left into darkness, two 5-foot squares wide. (2.83 squares wide at opening from chamber.)
13 45 degrees left into darkness, three 5-foot squares wide. (4.24 squares wide at base.)
14 45 degrees left into darkness, four 5-foot squares wide. (5.65 squares wide at base.)
15 45 degrees left into darkness, six 5-foot squares wide. (8.49 squares wide at base.)
16 45 degrees right into darkness, one 5-foot square wide. (1.41 squares wide at opening from chamber to get a corridor that is 1 square wide.)
17 45 degrees right into darkness, two 5-foot squares wide. (2.83 squares wide at opening from chamber.)
18 45 degrees right into darkness, three 5-foot squares wide. (4.24 squares wide at base.)
19 45 degrees right into darkness, four 5-foot squares wide. (5.65 squares wide at base.)
20 45 degrees right into darkness, six 5-foot squares wide. (8.49 squares wide at base.)

The Mythic Game Master Emulator is a product that has received high praises. It is not a dungeon generator per se, but a system-neutral campaign/adventure generator!

It might be a good product. I don't have much money right now, so I just use RPGs that are on my shelf, for other cheapskates out there I'm going to continue throwing out these random dungeon generating tables. It takes time to type out this stuff, so I'm doing a little here at a time. I hope to eliminate some ambiguities that the original tables have about how to draw the rooms and corridors on the grid. It is primarily for this reason that I keep the old first edition DM's guide, as the later editions don't have these tables in them. They have random monsters and treasures, but no tables for generating dungeons on the fly. Perhaps this mythic game engine does the same thing these tables do, I don't know cause I don't have it. One of the problems with buying stuff over the Internet is you don't get to browse, you buy it and then find out what's in it. Its kind of a pity that Borders Bookstores are going out of business, as I like browsing in their stores and if something really catches my eye I buy it.

The next table is of course that for the number of exits and their location. Instead of doing it the way the ist edition DMs guide does it I have my own idea, Tables 5c-g are the result. The main difference between rooms and chambers is that with rooms the exits have doors, which chambers they do not.

Tables 5c-h Number and Exit locations for Rooms and Chambers
These tables assume straight walls each is categorized by length, and one rolls the chance of an exit for each five-foot square in the length of the wall, thus for a 2 square long wall, one rolls a 1d4 and a result of 1 indicates the presence of an exit for each square rolled for the possibilities are 0 exits, 1 exit or 2 exits for this 10 foot long (2 five-foot squares) wall.

Table 5c walls up to 1-2 '5-foot' squares long (roll for each square)
d4 Result
1 An exit (if room it is a door, if chamber roll for exit direction)
2-4 No exit

Table 5d walls that are 3-4 '5-foot' squares long (roll for each square)
d6 Result
1 An exit (if room it is a door, if chamber roll for exit direction)
2-6 No exit

Table 5e walls that are 5-6 '5-foot' squares long (roll for each square)
d8 Result
1 An exit (if room it is a door, if chamber roll for exit direction)
2-8 No exit

Table 5d walls that are 7-8 '5-foot' squares long (roll for each square)
d10 Result
1 An exit (if room it is a door, if chamber roll for exit direction)
2-10 No exit

Table 5e walls that are 9-10 '5-foot' squares long (roll for each square)
d12 Result
1 An exit (if room it is a door, if chamber roll for exit direction)
2-12 No exit

Table 5f walls that are 11-14 '5-foot' squares long (roll for each square)
2d4 Result (equivant to rolling a 1d16 die)
2 An exit (if room it is a door, if chamber roll for exit direction)
3-8 No exit

Table 5g walls that are 15-18 '5-foot' squares long (roll for each square)
1d20 Result
1 An exit (if room it is a door, if chamber roll for exit direction)
2-19 No exit

Table 5h walls that are 19+ '5-foot' squares long (roll for each square)
2d6 Result (1d36 equivalent)
2 An exit (if room it is a door, if chamber roll for exit direction)
3-12 No exit

Tom_Kalbfus wrote:

Mt main problem with Phlogiston is the fact that the crew of the ship entering it has no control over where the Phlogistron currents take them, and they can't see where they are going, the Phlogstron is opaque over long distances and the distant spheres can't be seen, and such crews don't know if they could ever get back trusting in faith that the currents will also return them. A realistic reaction is such crews would not take a chance and not go in the first place.

I was under the impression that navigation was, to some extent, possible in the phlogiston, or at least there were possibilities of following different currents. So while your choices may be limited by what spheres your current sphere is connected to, it's not like you're rolling dice to see where you end up (unless you don't have charts and stuff, in which case the situation is similar to ocean navigation).

Quote:

I'd rather the sphere surfaces be transparent and insubstatial, marking the boundary between Heliopause and the deep ethereal. The deep ethereal being transparent allowing the light of distant stars to pass through so that interstellar navigation is possible.

Which again brings us to the point that constellations are far too important to many settings to allow them to be interfered with by something like space.

Addendum: this all applies to old-school Spelljammer. I know it's pretty clear that space as per Golarion sourcebooks work more like our space, I just prefer the weirdness of Spelljamming, which makes no excuses for its weirdness. :)

The only setting I'm aware of where the constellations figure importantly is Krynn, and I don't know of any Krynn Pathfinder settings. Constellations are usually determined by human imagination drawing a pattern in a random placement of stars. When I look at the night sky, I only see stars, I do not see contellations. The utility of having constellations appear and disappear when the gods walk the prime plane is small, the utility of using the stars to navigate through fantasy interstellar space is large. If one world has one set of constellations and another has a different set, then thats just the human imagination at work. The gods don't usually draw lines in the sky to indicate which constellations are which, but there maybe a fantasy world where this is the case. There may be crystal spheres that include just one planet and a tiny sun that circles around it to give the planet night at day. This is a fantasy universe so anything is possible, including worlds that aren't round. One could have a giant tortose swimming in a ocean at the bottom of a crystal sphere, on top of whose back stand four giant elephants on top of whose backs rest a disk-shaped world where the direction of down is consistent throughout the entire crystal sphere, the Sun is just a light source crawling on the crystal sphere as it rotates over and under the disk shaped world. The elephants and the tortose are the size of worlds themselves. The elephants appear motionless to the casualy observer and the giant tortoise only slowly seems to move his giant flippers. The crystal sphere is basically just a giant hamster ball with water filling the bottom which the tortose swims through. Perhaps their are gates to the elemental plane of water on this disk world to continually replenish the water that continuously spills over the edge of this world. The oceans are as a result filled with fresh water. The diskworld doesn't have a north pole or a south pole, it has temperate zones up against the extreme north and south edges of the disk, the Sun is small so the parts of the disk furthest away from the sun are cooler than the parts which the sun directly arcs over in its daily cycle. A spelljamming ship retains its own atmosphere when flying in this crystal sphere, but it subordinates its gravity to that of the entire sphere, which has one universal direction of down throughout.

I kind of liked the old Battlesystems rules, basically it was a Wargame that allowed RPG character interaction. Individual PCs could mix it up with the various units and fight the monsters on the battlefield as part of each turn in the battle, that in my opinion is the entire justification for Empire Building, so one can build armies and have wars. Quite a change in venue from the same old dungeon crawl, don't you think?

On the otherhand, maybe the Astral Plane can go on the outside of spheres, the spheres would then mark the boundary between the Astral Plane and the Ethereal Plane. Prime planes would then be contained within each chrystal sphere, though the structure of each sphere is ethereal and insubstantial to normal objects. I believe one can push themselves around in the astral plane by thinking about it. Since the astral plane has a silvery appearance, the spheres would appear as dark spots on the silvery background as if a negative was taken of the night sky.

Mt main problem with Phlogiston is the fact that the crew of the ship entering it has no control over where the Phlogistron currents take them, and they can't see where they are going, the Phlogstron is opaque over long distances and the distant spheres can't be seen, and such crews don't know if they could ever get back trusting in faith that the currents will also return them. A realistic reaction is such crews would not take a chance and not go in the first place.

I'd rather the sphere surfaces be transparent and insubstatial, marking the boundary between Heliopause and the deep ethereal. The deep ethereal being transparent allowing the light of distant stars to pass through so that interstellar navigation is possible.

Since the ether is the medium through which light waves pass, the deep ethereal is denser than the border ethereal within the spheres, light travels faster outside of the spheres than within and much higher spaceship velocities are also possible outside the spheres than within.

Table 5 Chambers/Rooms
d20 Result
1 Square 4 five-foot squares north-south, 4 five-foot squares east-west.
2 Square, diagonal is 5.66 five-foot squares north-south, 5.66 five-foot squares east-west.
3 Square 5 five-foot squares north-south, 5 five-foot squares east-west.
4 Square, diagonal 7.07 five-foot squares north-south, 7.07 fove-foot squares east-west.
5 Square 6 five-foot squares north-south, 6 five-foot squares east west.
6 Square, diagonal 8.5 five-foot squares north-south, 8.5 five-foot squares east-west.
7 Square 8 five-foot squares north-south, 8 five-foot squares east-west.
8 Square, diagonal 11.3 five-foot squares north-south, 11.3 five-foot squares east-west.
9 Rectangular 4 five-foot squares north-south, 6 five-foot squares east west.

10 Rectangular, draw first wall from origin point up 2.82 five-foot squares (north-south), and over 2.82 five-foot squares (east-west). From previous end point draw second wall down 4.24 five-foot squares(north-south) and over 4.24 five-foot squares(east-west). Then draw a line equal in length from the second end point parallel to the first line, then connect the third endpoint to the point of origin to draw a rectangle.

11 Rectangular 6 five-foot squares north-south, 4 five-foot squares east-west.

12 Rectangular, draw first wall from origin point up 4.24 five-foot squares (north-south), and over 4.24 five-foot squares (east-west). From previous end point draw second wall down 2.82 five-foot squares(north-south) and over 2.82 five-foot squares(east-west). Then draw a line equal in length to the first from the second end point parallel to the first line, then connect the third endpoint to the point of origin to draw a rectangle.

13 Rectangular 6 five-foot squares north-south, 10 five-foot squares east-west

14 Rectangular, draw first wall from origin point up 4.24 five-foot squares (north-south), and over 4.24 five-foot squares (east-west). From previous end point draw second wall down 7.07 five-foot squares(north-south) and over 7.07 five-foot squares(east-west). Then draw a line equal in length to the first from the second end point parallel to the first line, then connect the third endpoint to the point of origin to draw a rectangle.

15 Rectangular 10 five-foot squares north-south, 6 five-foot squares east-west.

16 Rectangular, draw first wall from origin point up 7.07 five-foot squares (north-south), and over 7.07 five-foot squares (east-west). From previous end point draw second wall down 4.24 five-foot squares(north-south) and over 4.24 five-foot squares(east-west). Then draw a line equal in length to the first from the second end point parallel to the first line, then connect the third endpoint to the point of origin to draw a rectangle.

17 Rectangular 8 five-foot squares north-south, 12 five-foot squares east-west(01-50 on d%) or Rectangular 12 five-foot squares north-south, 8 five-foot squares east-west(51-00 on d%).

18 Rectangular, draw first wall from origin point up 5.66 five-foot squares (north-south), and over 5.66 five-foot squares (east-west). From previous end point draw second wall down 8.5 five-foot squares(north-south) and over 8.5 five-foot squares(east-west). Then draw a line equal in length to the first from the second end point parallel to the first line, then connect the third endpoint to the point of origin to draw a rectangle.

19-20 roll d20 for table 5a Unusual shape and roll d20 for table 5b Unusual size.

Table 5a Unusual Shape
d20 Result
1-5 Circular
6-8 Triangular
9-11 Trapezoidal
12-13 Odd-shaped
14-15 Oval
16-17 Hexagonal
18-19 Octagonal
20 Cave

Table 5b Unusual Size
d20 Result
1-3 about 500 square feet
4-6 about 900 square feet
7-8 about 1300 square feet
9-10 about 2000 square feet
11-12 about 2700 square feet
13-14 about 3400 square feet
15-20 roll again and add the result to 2000 square feet (if aqnother 15-20 repeat the process doubling 4000 square feet and so on)

18

Tom_Kalbfus wrote:

The whole crystal spheres in phlogiston thing seemed rather arbitrary to me I could not find a justification for it. And if giant Dyson Sphere like things are floating in a sea of explosive phlogiston, then how can one tell if one comes out of the sphere at the "waterline" or not?

There's no "waterline" in the phlogiston. The phlogiston is not a liquid where the crystal spheres are floating, it's more of a space/gas thing.

I, for one, liked crystal spheres, especially given Spelljammer's design constraints (which was that the previous settings, especially Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, and Greyhawk all were part of it). As someone else pointed out, the constellations changing have been an important part of Krynn's history - and it's hard to justify a setting where you can travel from Krynn to Toril but changes in Krynn's constellations don't affect Toril's.

In addition, they mesh very well with folklore and mythology. People have believed all sorts of crazy things about the sky and its construction, but the whole "infinite universe where the stars are actually just different and very distant suns" thing didn't show up until the 16th century. And let's not even get into the whole "world on the back of a turtle" idea, which is explicitly supported by Spelljammer, as is something along the lines of Yggdrasil (one Spelljammer adventure even had a crystal sphere where the planets basically hung off branches of a celestial tree).

Greek mythology also had many instances of things being turned into constellations in the heavens, to honor them. That kind of thing works poorly when the stars are just big fusion reactors dozens or hundreds of lightyears away.

This would see to argue for my second idea of using the deep ethereal plane instead of phlogiston outside of the spheres. I don't think the spheres should be solid though, they should be a function of each sun's brightness, that is the suns radius pushes outwards on the deep ethereal, producing a sphere of empty vacuum/border ethereal where planets can orbit, and as the sun's rays get weaker the further they travel from the sun, they reach a point of equalibrium with the deep ethereal.

IMO, the main problem with Spelljammer was that they focused on the wrong thing. They spent a lot of page count in the core manuals on how to turn your regular campaign into a Spelljammer campaign, and on the makeup of Greyspace, Realmspace, and Krynnspace and traveling between them (I recall that there was something weird...

I never liked the Spheres myself so I came up with an alternate way back in 2E.

I had ships traveling and moving in normal space within the area that the crystal sphere encompassed. To leave the current system the ship had to travel to the edge to the system where the sphere would have been. There they activated their helm and entered the phlogiston. Once in the Phlo you traveled to the next system where you exited the flow at the edge of the system where the sphere would have been. It turned the Phlo into a fantasy hyperspace. You still had to navigate the flow and you may have to travel through multiple spheres to get to your destination.

I never used the limitations on clerics. It never made sense. You call and your god answers, period.

I also did away with the loos your spells part of the helms.

I loved everything else about the setting; especially the Rock of Bral.

SM

Here's a concept why invent something like Phlogiston in the first place, doesn't Pathfinder already have an ethereal plane? There are two types of ethereal, border ethereal and deep ethereal. Now lets say the border ethereal is the realm of ghosts and other insubstantial creatures, it is coterminous with the prime material plane. The other ethereal is the deep ethereal plane.

Now according to some old and discredited theories of physics, light waves were said to propigate through a medium called the ether, in much the same way that water waves propigate through water and sound waves propigate through air. So what if the border ethereal was not only the realm of ghosts but also the realm through which light waves propigated through, which would also explain why you could see ghosts but not touch them.

Now we know that the center of a solar system is the Sun, and as one moves further and further away from the Sun, the light waves spread out. At a certain distance, lets say 100 Astronomical Units the light waves spread out so much that they can push back against the deep ethereal no more and the Sun forms a bubble of vacuum 100 AU in radius, if a ship moves past that, they end up in the deep ethereal and would follow the rules for travel in that realm until it encounters another vacuum bubble created by another star. Starlight passes through the deep ethereal plane, and stars are visible in that plane, but movement at tremendous speeds becomes much easier within the deep ethereal plane than within a vacuum bubble otherwise known as a Prime material plane.

One can thus also sail one's spaceship to the outer planes as well, so if one is not careful they may find themselves entering one of the nine hells or the Abyss. I think the elemental planes of Earth, fire, water, and air are also accessible via the ethereal plane. Now a planeshift spell can get one there, but so too could a spaceship traveling beyond the maximum radius of the local prime material plane vacuum bubble.

That was fun, you basically need rules for hirelings, building army units and fortresses, and everything else is tax collection and economics. Player characters become the leaders of nations, and direct their armies, while often participating in the combat themselves from time to time as well.

Battlesystems come to mind.

I think Pathfinder already has enough different kinds of "points" to keep track of, the most important ones are hit points and experience points. Introducing point based psionics adds a third set of points as well, now imagine monster encounters keeping track of the creatures hit points, experience points you earn for killing it, and their psionics points. I'd rather keep it simple, and not strain one's brain with too many numbers per creature. I like having a list of spells, if you have a spell name on the list of memorized spells, you can cast it for each time its listed, it should not be, "Oh I have this psionic ability, but do I have enough points to use it? Oh I'm not sure I deducted my psion points last time I used an ability." It should be as easy as you use the spell and you cross it off or erase it from the list, and when you memorize it again, you decide what to memorize and put it back on the list.

Tom_Kalbfus wrote:

Mortagon wrote:

It's 3.5 but THIS random dungeon creator should be easy to convert for Pathfinder use.

But creating a while dungeon level at a time is not what one wants if one intends to be a solo player without a GM. What you want then is a series of tables that reveals information at the same time as the player character and hence the player would get it. That way as a solo dungeon player, you don't know what's behind that door until you open it, or listen or whatever.

Table 4. Turns
d20 Result
1-8 Passage turns left, 90 degrees.
9 Passage turns left, 45 degrees ahead.
10 Passage turns left, 45 degrees behind.
11-18 Passage turns right, 90 degrees.
19 Passage turns right, 45 degrees ahead.
20 Passage turns right, 45 degrees behind.
(remember roll a d20 afterwards and recheck on table 3a to determine the new width of the passage after it turns.)

Ok, sorry, just thought it might be helpful.

No problem, that is a fantastic site, and it creates a dungeon, a good GM tool, and I like the random planet generators too, but to have a solo adventurer play it, you'd need to breakdown each room description into a bunch of number index cards.

I did this once. Someone other than the player prepares the deck of dungeon cards with all the descriptions and secrets. On one side of each card is a small map of the room or encounter area in question, and at every exit is a number which refers to a numbered card, if there are containers, they have numbers too, if one opens a container, the player pulls the container card and finds out what's in it, whether trap or treasure, if he opens a door, then he pulls another card to find out what's on the other side. Some cards have combat encounters on it, and the player himself runs the encounter rolling dice for both his character and his opponents, all monsters are automatically assumed to attack, not much opportunity for roll playing here.

The deck of dungeon cards does the same thing as the random tables do, though perhaps with some more intelligently thought out encounters.

I did my own SJ 3.5 setup a few years back. It used modified 2e rules for ship movement, and even had some prestige classes revamped from the Shadow of the Spider Moon article.

Like 2e, spellcasters lost their spells, but there were ways to not lose them all. Really, ship mobility was only important in ship-to-ship combat. Otherwise, a 1st level adept could fly as fast and as well as a 20th level wizard. In the game, NPC crewmembers were often multiclassed adept/expert/warriors, so one guy losing his spells was no biggie. In 2e (or now), a wizard would be basically helpless without his spells, while a cleric or bard could still at least fight fairly well, if nothing else. Full casters didn't want to lose their spells to fly the ships.

I decided crystal spheres were there, but transparent and easy to traverse. You saw a real universe, not a "painted on" version. That always bugged me. The sphere was just the boundary at which you entered the phlogiston, and the physics of space travel changed between spheres. The hex grids (1.5", not 1"; better scale to the paper ships) worked as well in 6 second rounds as they did in 60 second rounds. You'd get 2 ships next to each other, then space them 10 hexes apart, reducing the scale to 3X speed/round. Worked great.

The whole crystal spheres in phlogiston thing seemed rather arbitrary to me I could not find a justification for it. And if giant Dyson Sphere like things are floating in a sea of explosive phlogiston, then how can one tell if one comes out of the sphere at the "waterline" or not? Also these spheres are so unbelievably huge, it makes it kind of hard to suspend one's disbelief, they are basically huge artifacts of the gods. If I had my druthers I'd dispense with them altogether. I like one whole fantasy universe under a consistent set of laws however fantastic and magical they may be. Space is essentially a vacuum like our own universe, only magic makes it possible to have sailing ships in space. Also in the Spelljammer rules, the spellcaster has too much to do with the ship's performance in space, I'd rather the ship just be a magic item and have the crew of the ship factor into the speed and maneuverability of the starship. A flying carpet works after all, a wizard would enchant the ship just as one would a magic item, and cast a permancy spell on it, and after that it is all up to the crew (sailors and rowers) to manuever the ship through space. The velocity a ship travels is space is proportional to how fast a naughtical equivalent to that same ship would travel on a planet's oceans, but much faster in space of course except during tactical encounters. (When two or more ships close within a certain distance of each other.)

Gravity on the ship was handled by the helm, so there was a real "down," though ship gravity could be affected by planet gravity (like in Firefly).

I loved the concept of SJ, even if the execution wasn't all it could have been. I hope Paizo does come up with some rules for space ship travel, and some imaginative ships for us to use and fantasize about. I really liked all the fanciful ships in the War Captain's Companion, though I thought a lot of the published adventures were just awful, and made my own for the setting.

I got a lot of good info HERE.

Give me planets and magical ships to take there! I'm ready!

A Steampunk based SpellJammer would be interesting as well.

Some mad Alchemist figured out how to infuse gravity into the airship itself, so the ship themselves generate their own gravitational fields. It could be a Lode Keel, built from solid lodestone.

As a byproduct it also maintains it's own atmosphere due to the magnetic lines of flux it creates. Incorporate a Bottle of Air into the design for fresh air and voila.

Or it can easily be done with magic item design. They would effectively be near artifacts, owned only by the most powerful on a planet for space faring ships.

The was an RPG produced by GDW called "Space 1889" that occured in the age of steam, spaceships were invented by Thomas Edison with his "Either Impeller", there was no method for producing gravity, and the only planets of interest were Venus, Earth and Mars. But I guess that's not what you'd call "steampunk" is it. It was more of a Wellsian, Jules Verneian setting.

It's 3.5 but THIS random dungeon creator should be easy to convert for Pathfinder use.

But creating a while dungeon level at a time is not what one wants if one intends to be a solo player without a GM. What you want then is a series of tables that reveals information at the same time as the player character and hence the player would get it. That way as a solo dungeon player, you don't know what's behind that door until you open it, or listen or whatever.

Table 4. Turns
d20 Result
1-8 Passage turns left, 90 degrees.
9 Passage turns left, 45 degrees ahead.
10 Passage turns left, 45 degrees behind.
11-18 Passage turns right, 90 degrees.
19 Passage turns right, 45 degrees ahead.
20 Passage turns right, 45 degrees behind.
(remember roll a d20 afterwards and recheck on table 3a to determine the new width of the passage after it turns.)

theshoveller wrote:

I'd be interested to know the copyright status of Shadow of the Spider Moon, actually. The section on GolarionSpace in the Inner Sea World Guide bears more than a passing resemblence... ;)

Was that the Dragon Spelljammer revamp? Most of the material in Dragon is not open content, sadly.

Tom_Kalbfus wrote:

I think doing away with crystal spheres would be a good idea, using a teleport spell to teleport interstellar distances would be a good idea, this teleport spell would have certain conditions placed upon it however such that the ship to be teleported must exceed a certain distance from the local primary start before it can be teleported. The teleport affects the entire ship, everything on it, and its atmospheric envelope. Basically a substitute for a hyperdrive in classic science fiction.

Yeah, crystal spheres I could do without, even if they were open content.

As for the teleportation hyperdrive? Well, here's where I confess to having come up with a similar idea when I was thinking about how to do "raygun gothic" as unabashed magitek space fantasy rather than as (at least an an attempt at) standard soft s-f. So...I approve.

The main reason I don't like Crystal Spheres, is because that makes the stars one sees in the night sky have nothing to do with the stars that are actually out there. I prefer "what you see is what you get" a crystal sphere produces a fake night sky, the stars are nothing but lights or decorations placed on the inside of each crystal sphere by the gods for all mortals to see, and I'd much rather the stars be something more than that such as distant suns for instance. As for astrophysics, I'd like the standard rules to apply, as far as stars and planet formation is concerned. Stars should come in different colors from red dwarfs (type M), orange(type K), yellow (type G), white (type F), Blue-white (Type A), Light blue (Type B), and blue (type O), I'd like there to be red giants, red supergiants, other sorts of giants, white dwarfs, neutron stars and black holes, all following the laws of physics as far as they are concerned. The departure occurs where characters are concerned. Asteroids have 1-g fields and their own atmospheric envelopes just like ships. 1-g is the smallest gravity for the small objects, planets can have 1-g and greater. Large objects g-fields and atmospheres overule those of smaller objects. So a ship that enters the atmosphere/gravity field of an asteroid loses its own seperate gravity and defers to that of the larger asteroid. (that is if the ship turns upsidedown in relation to that gravity field, anything that's not tied down falls out.

Small non-round objects have planar gravity fields, that is up to the edge of the atmosphere objects fall to the gravity plane where the direction of down reverses itself and then fall back up through that gravity plane bobbing up and down until air resistance causes it to settle half above and half below the gravity field. (Assuming of course there are no objects in that gravity field to hit.)

Larger round objects have round gravity fields similar to a planet, in this case the gravity field diminishes according to the inverse square law of Isaac Newton, where the planar gravity fields extend only to the edge of the atmospheric envelope and suddenly cut off to zero in the vacuum.

The universe follows the laws of our universe except where magic has altered them, is the basic principle I'm working from.

Table 3b: Special Passage
d20 Result
1-4 Passage is eight 5-foot squares wide with 5-foot wide columns down center one column every third 5-foot square with two empty 5-foot squares inbetween columns. The passage continues into darkness.

5-7 Passage is eight 5-foot squares wide with a double row of 5-foot wide columns. Each column is two 5-foot squares from the nearest wall, with a central space of two 5-foot columns between the rows down the center, each column in a row fills every third square in that row, and is thus seperated by two 5-foot squares from each other in each row. The columns are lined up to form squares down the center of the passage.

8-10 Passage is ten 5-foot squares wide with a double row of 5-foot wide columns. Each column is two 5-foot squares from the nearest wall, with a central space of four 5-foot columns between the rows down the center, Each column in the row fills every fifth square in that row and is thus seperated by four 5-foot squares from each other in each row.
The columns arew lined uo to form squares down the center of the passage.

11-12 Passage is ten 5-foot squares wide, with a double row of columns, two 5-foot squares to the right and two 5-foot squares to the left, each row of columns supports upper galleries 2 squares wide 10 feet above the floor.

13-15 Passage is two 5-foot squares wide and flooded with water flowing down the passage forming a stream.

16 Passage is three 5-foot squares wide and flooded with water flowing down the passage forming an underground river.

17 Passage is four 5-foot squares wide and flooded with water flowing down the passage forming an underground river.

18 Passage is eight 5-foot squares wide and flooded with water flowing down the passage forming an underground river.

19 Passage is twelve 5-foot squares wide and flooded with water flowing down the passage forming an underground river.

20 Passage has a floor 200 feet below the entrance forming a chasm four 5-foot squares wide.

That said: Hopefully, it won't take any of the more ludicrous cues from Spelljammer—depowering clerics of certain deities once they're off their homeworld, for one. (Keep in mind that I quite liked Spelljammer. It just had...

I think doing away with crystal spheres would be a good idea, using a teleport spell to teleport interstellar distances would be a good idea, this teleport spell would have certain conditions placed upon it however such that the ship to be teleported must exceed a certain distance from the local primary start before it can be teleported. The teleport affects the entire ship, everything on it, and its atmospheric envelope. Basically a substitute for a hyperdrive in classic science fiction.

If we could get monsters from movies,books, tv shows(minus those pesky copyright laws) then lets have Audry II from "Little shop of horrors", xenomorphs from "Alien", preditor, movie version gremlins, and some monters from Buffy tv series. But thats not going to happen but there are still some stuff out there that is public domain.

Bandersnatch and jubjub bird

animals(prehistoric and regular kangaroos, platipus, more prehistoric mammals)

How about stats for "King Kong" and other giant apes like him?

Before most of you raise your torches and pitchforks. Think about it. From Levels 1 through 10. Human Bard. Can it be done on 20 point buy? Should it be done?

Batman doesn't sing, Batman doesn't dance, Batman doesn't play an instrument, so how could he be a Bard?

Tom_Kalbfus wrote:

I think Little John would be offended if you called him a barbarian. Little John was a civilized Englishman, he was just big. An American Indian during the 12th century would be a barbarian, doesn't mean he would automatially win a wrestling competition with Little John.

I think you may be confused. Little John gets more powerful when he's angry, at least in the TV show, and definitely has the Rage ability (he can break his chains when his son's in danger, but not when he's perfectly calm).

And are you suggesting that Native Americans were all barbarians? That's kind of ridiculous.

If you called Little John a "Barbarian" he is liable to get mad and smash things! ;)

By definition any one who is uncivilized, is a barbarian. That is people who belong to tribes instead of nations and can't read or write etc. Many North American Indians precontact fall into that category, the Aztecs maybe not, as they had cities and pictograms for writing, though many of the northern "barbarian" Indians didn't practice human sacrifice like the Aztecs did. Some civilizations were not so nice.

Table 3: Side passages
Die Result
1-2 left 90 degrees,
3-4 right 90 degrees,
5 left 45 degrees ahead,
6 left 45 degrees behind,
7 right 45 degrees ahead,
8 right 45 degrees behind,
9 left curve to an eventual 45 degrees ahead at "seeing distance",
10 right curve to an eventual 45 degrees ahead at "seeing distance",

11-13 passage ends at "seeing distance" forming a 'T' with another passage at a right angle to the passage your currently in.

14-15 passage splits in two at "seeing distance", forming a 'Y', with left fork going 45 degrees ahead and the right fork going 45 degrees ahead from the passage your currently in.

16-19 The passage bisects another passage at right angles a "seeing distance" ahead, forming a 4-way intersection.

20 passage ends at an 'X' formed by two other passages a "seeing distance" ahead, the passage your currently in forms a fifth passage at the bottom of the 'X'.

After consulting the above table roll a d20 and consult table 3a.

Table 3a: Passage width
d20 Result
1-12 passage two 5-foot squares wide.
13 passage three 5-foot squares wide.
14 passage four 5-foot squares wide.
15 passage five 5-foot squares wide.
16 passage six 5-foot squares wide.
17-18 passage one 5-foot square wide.
19-20 roll d20 and consult Table 3b Special Passages.

Table 2: Doors
Location of the door (all doors are assumed to be closed)
Die Result
1-6 door on left wall at "seeing distance".
7-12 door on right at "seeing distance".
13-20 passage ends at door directly ahead at "seeing distance".

after consulting above table roll a d20 and consult table 2a.

Table 2a: The space on the other side of door if opened.
"You open the door to find ..."
Die Result
1-4 a parallel passage to the doorway, roll d20 and consult table 3a to determine width.

5-8 a passage straight ahead, roll d20 consulting table 3a to determine width.

9 a passage 45 degrees ahead, roll d20 consulting table 3a to determine width.

10 a passage 45 degrees behind, roll d20 consulting table 3a to determine width.

11-18 a room, roll d20 and consult table 5.
19-20 a chamber, roll d20 and consult table 5.

Fortunately I saved my 1st edition AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide. On page 169 Appendix A: Random Dungeon Generation there is a set of tables that could easily be adapted to the Pathfinder game. You start with a room or chamber with a staircase leading down from the surface the room typically is assumed to be empty and your character(s) are assumed to have just descended the stairs from the surface. The stairs are at the southern end of the room and the room is a square room 30 feet by 30 feet with a 20 foot high ceiling, all walls are made of stone blocks and the dungeon is underground. A side from the staircase descending through the southern wall equidistant from west and east walls, there are 10 foot wide passages with 10 foot high ceilings leading out of the middle of the west, north, and east walls. These corridors continue on into the darkness beyond the range of your torchlight, latern light, or low light vision, whatever the range of your method of seeing in this unlit dungeon, the corridors extend beyond that. We'll call this distance the "seeing distance" if you like.

I'm going to paraphrase the tables presented in that book, so I don't get into copyright troubles, they are fairly simple anyway.

If you choose to go down any of these three corridors, and traveling the "seeing distance" down that corridor, you consult table 1 after rolling a 20-sided die.

Table 1: Periodic check
d20 Result
1-2 The corridor contiues straight for another "seeing distance" from your current location.

3-5 There is a door, roll d20 and consult Table 2.

6-10 There is a side passage a "seeing distance" ahead from your current position, roll d20 and consult table 3 to determine wall(s) and direction(s) of the side passage, and check width on table 3.a, the corridor continues off in the distance past the side passage(s) into the darkness.

11-13 The passage turns at the "seeing distance", roll d20 and consult table 4, and check width of passage on table 3a.

14-16 The passage leads to a chamber at "seeing distance", roll d20 and consult table 5.

17 There are stairs ahead at "seeing distance", roll d20 and consult table 6.

18 The passage ends at a dead end at "seeing distance" from your current position.

19 You may have sprung a trap at your current position, roll d20 and consult table 7 to determine type of trap, the passage continues past the trap into the darkness at seeing distance.

20 You have a wandering monster encounter, roll a d20 and consult the appropriate wantering monster encounters table(s).

...

I can never tell on these forums. There's a few folks here who complain about clerics being too weak - and they legit mean it. Hell we have a thread going on now about how wizards aren't versatile enough.

I disagree completely, I had alot of fun playing a cleric in an AD&D session in the 1980s, he didn't just stay on the sidelines and wait for someone to need healing. Clerics aren' much different in essence in Pathfinder from those early AD&D games.

I don't want psionics in Golarion, same way I didn't want guns either.

That said, I'd be perfectly happy with then in a world built around those concepts... such as a Pirate campaign or semi steampunk for Guns...or in the case of Psionics, the Dark Sun setting was brilliant and really worked with the concept.

I really don't want wither of them in the mainstream setting though.

The "Pirates of the Caribbean" movies are a fantasy setting with guns, although some of it takes place in a real geographic place on Earth, the presence of magic, curses, undead and the like make it a fantasy setting very similar to Pathfinder. I think Pathfinder rightly ought to include rules that could simulate a setting very similar to Pirates of the Caribbean.

That said, I don't much like psionics, psionics is pseudoscientific, there are people who claim to have mind powers in the real world, and I'd much prefer to draw a clear distinction between fantasy worlds and real ones. If something is magical and not real, lets just admit it and not try to blur the distinction, there is no evidence for psionics in the real world, none, lets save this for a superheroes campaign, there you can have characters with mind powers among many others, psionics fits well into those.

...

Um...It's a teleport item. If someone wanted to seal it couldnt they simply teleport away with it, regardless of its consistency?

Perhaps just permanent teleportition circle network is what you're lookign for.

It doesn't teleport itself, only what's sitting on top of it. The objects and creatures teleported arrive at the destination without the teleport disk. It has much in common with the Star Trek Transporters, only it doesn't "beam up" it only "beams down" One has to stand on top of the disk to be teleported and after one is teleported one needs to find another way back.

Perhaps its similar to a teleportation circle network, but the magic is tied up with an object.

greatamericanfolkhero wrote:

LazarX wrote:

greatamericanfolkhero wrote:

dartnet wrote:

I am thinking of doing a Spelljammer game for Pathfinder. An one else done anything with this?

Why yes, yes I am. (those are the house rules for my upcoming game.)

Quite the hate for combat expertise I see.

It was a request from several players that I happened to agree with. I've never seen it actually used in game. It's only been a feat you set on fire to get other, better feats.

Pretty much my feeling on Weapon Finesse. I think it is built into finesse-able weapons already. Can you see a real life fencing tourney & somebody trying to hack with a rapier? I believe the proper training with such weapons make them Dex based anyway.

So far as I've read, very little of it has to do with spelljamming rules, most of it has to do with individual characters. I do not see the justification for starting characters out at 2nd level for a spelljammer campaign nor for maxing out the hit points of their first two levels, these are individual DM decisions. I could easily start out a spelljamming campaign at 1st level with a party of 1st level characters investigating a dungeon located in an asteroid, it works the same as any other Pathfinder campaign until you get your characters on spelljamming ships. I don't see psionics as a necessity either, as a spelljammer campaign doesn't require them and can get by with just magic only.

Tom_Kalbfus wrote:

I hate to break it to you, but an 18 strength is not average, it is near the top of the scale for a human, I just don't see Bruce as a body builder with rippling muscles. Bruce's strength should be around 10 or 11, I don't like the idea of making an 18 strength average, just because there are some superheroes around with a strength of 30

Any my point is that, if you stat him up as an alchemist using Pathfinder rules, every point of strength that you drop for the Banner form transfers over to a drop in strength for the Hulk form.

Tom_Kalbfus wrote:

He has two different sets of stats, one in Banner form and the other in Hulk Form. With a point buy system, most of his points should be concentrated in his Hulk form, and as a superhero, he should be alotted more than 25.

Again, the discussion had largely centered on stating him up as an alchemist. Alchemists don't get to re-distribute their stats completely when they mutate, they get a static bonus added. In fact, even if we move beyond the alchemist, there's nothing in Pathfinder that allows a (for example) 15 point stat buy base form, and 30 point "mutated" form.

But what you end up with doesn't resemble the Hulk or Bruce Banner. If Bruce Banner wanted to venture into some fantasy world, he certainly could, the comic book realm provides plentiful means to travel across the dimensions, and Bruce Banner is comic book scientist enough to pull this off, he doesn't need to be a Alchemist, he could just move from his world to this one, and be the standard comic book Hulk in a fantasy campaign. Bruce Banner is certainly not the equal to the Hulk when he is himself, I don't think the point totals would be the same for Banner and the Hulk, or rather Banner's big advantage is his ability to turn into the Hulk when he gets angry. So as Banner his ability to Hulk out equals all the abilities the Hulk has above what Banner has. To the Hulk, his ability to turn into Bruce Banner when he is calm and sedate would count as a disadvantage as far as he's concerned. The Hulk would much rather stay the Hulk, and Bruce Banner would much rather stay Bruce Banner. You can treat them as two seperate characters with the same point total.

In the case of Bruce Banner, most of his points would go into his ability to turn into the Hulk, only a tinly percentage of his points would go to stat up Bruce Banner's normal characteristics. For the Hulk its the opposite, he would get negative points for his ability to turn into Bruce Banner, which would leave him with additional points to spend on strength and constitution, which is basically sums up what the Hulk is.

Regrs wrote:

Banner is a weakling with great intellect although not a genius, more likely like a focused scientist with angst problems and a vicious alter ego that bursts with anger.

1. The problem with making Banner a weakling is that, as an alchemist, any lack of Str on his part transfers over to the Hulk form. He's also not really weak compared to regular people...it's not his fault that his peer group consists of guys like Thor and Captain America.

I hate to break it to you, but an 18 strength is not average, it is near the top of the scale for a human, I just don't see Bruce as a body builder with rippling muscles. Bruce's strength should be around 10 or 11, I don't like the idea of making an 18 strength average, just because there are some superheroes around with a strength of 30

2. Banner is considered one of the top scientists in the Marvel universe, and THE ranking authority on radiation (gamma and otherwise). He's absolutely a genius.

of course

3. Stating comic book characters generally doesn't work well, because almost all of them seem to work on a point buy system far far beyond the even the 25 point buy. To use the Hulk as an example, even if you ignore the fact that his Str should literally be infinity and just try to max it out, you have to sacrifice the other stats in order to do so. His Con should be infinity minus one, and his Dex should be pretty good as well. His Wis should be decent, and his Int varies wildly according to which incarnation of the Hulk he assumes. The only really decent dump stat is Cha (Banner is an occasionally jerky nerd, and the Hulk is a big green or grey monster).

He has two different sets of stats, one in Banner form and the other in Hulk Form. With a point buy system, most of his points should be concentrated in his Hulk form, and as a superhero, he should be alotted more than 25.

To truly get the Hulk out of an Alchemist I'd recommend at least a lvl 17 Alchemist/Master Chymist.

At that point you could have the Grand Mutagen and Growth Mutation through use of the Feat Extra Discovery

At that point when you "Hulk out" you'd gain +10 STR +6 Con +2 Dex (Enlarge person bonus factored in) and double in height and weight. You'd suffer a -2 to all your mental stats. If you combine that with the above suggestions of the Manuals and the Belt then you're scores could EASILY be in the 30's for Strength and Con.

25 Point buy in... I'd go with a distribution of scores like this

STR 17
Dex 10
Con 16
Int 15
Wis 9
Cha 7

Starting race is Human I would imagine? Then to reflect the Bruce Banner starting persona I'd drop the +2 into Int raising that to a 17. 4th level point I'd put into Int to raise that to an 18. 8th I'd put into Str raising that to an 18 12 I might put into Con raising that to a 17, then raise Con again at 16th for an 18.

So Banner would have natural stats of

STR 18
DEX 10
CON 18
Int 18
Wis 9
Cha 7

This doesn't sound like Bruce Banner at all! Bruce Banner doesn't have an 18 strength. Bruce Banner would more likely have the stats of a wizard. There are way too many 18s he's starting out with here. If Bruce can handle himself well in a fight, there is no reason for him to turn into the Hulk. The Hulk stats and the Banner stats are going to be different, also the Hulk intelligence should go down as his strength goes up.

Add the two manuals and you've got which with the belt goes to

STR 23 (29)
Dex 10 (16)
CON 23 (29)
Int 18
Wis 9
Cha 7

and then when he Hulks out his stats go to

STR 39
Dex 18
Con 39
Int 16
Wis 7
Cha 5

I don't think the Hulk has a 16 intelligence, that is still quite bright, average intelligence is around 10, too much stat inflation. I don't really see the Hulk with a dexterity of 18 either, his one atribute is a high strength and a high constitution for regeneration. The Hulk isn't particularly bright, and he can't cast spells while in Hulk form.

A good example of a barbarian is Little John, as he's portrayed in the BBC Robin Hood. You don't want to make him angry, even if you're his friend.

I think Little John would be offended if you called him a barbarian. Little John was a civilized Englishman, he was just big. An American Indian during the 12th century would be a barbarian, doesn't mean he would automatially win a wrestling competition with Little John.

Tom_Kalbfus wrote:

Of course the magic item does not tie up a character, it can do teleport after teleport without supervision from a character who has to cast the teleport spell. The item's purpose is to facilitate commerce between two distant points on the globe, a first level character can use it, it is preset to teleport to the other disk, it takes a wizards to use the attached crystal ball to set it to teleport somewhere else.

Greater teleport carpet (though you can make it a big heavy stone, horse cart, etc if you want. I just like the idea of a big circular carpet)

With the stylized carpet a Person standing in the center can imagine a location and teleport to it. A maximum of "X" other people/goods can be teleported with the carpet. If used for commerce it might be a good idea to make it a small item that can be attached to a cart (or other goods carrying thing) and removed to add to a new cart. Think of the bedknob from the movie Bedknobs and broomsticks.

A carpet, you can roll up and take with you, hence it can be stolen, a big heavy silver disk, not so much. A lot of magic items are designed to be portable, this one is not. The reason it is not is the character who made it doesn't want to be tied up teleporting people here and there, when he's got some adventuring to do, and if it was something like a carpet, some thief can easily roll it up and walk away, and the PC would have to stand guard over it to make sure it is not stolen instead of going on adventures. If he takes the item with him, then all trade and commerce grinds to a halt. People on the island do not like to be dependent on the "lord of the Island" for transport to the big city and back, as the lord has better things to do, like adventuring instead of transporting every peasant who wants to bring his crops to market.

Instead someone collects a toll for the use of the teleport disk.

Barbarian: Ayla (From "Clan of the Cave Bear" by Jean M. Auel)
Bard: Ariel (From Disney's "The Little Mermaid")
Cleric: Saint Peter
Druid: Pocahontas
Fighter: Beowulf
Monk: Hong Kong Phoey
Paladin: Joan of Arc
Ranger: Grizzly Adams
Rogue: Jack "the Giant Killer" (From Jack and the Beanstalk)
Sorcerer: Dorothy Gail
Wizard: Professor Marvel (from "the Wizard of Oz".)
Witch: Galadriel
Elf: Weena from the Time Machine
Dwarf: Grumpy
Gnome: The Good Magician Humphrey from the Xanth Novels
Halfling: Tasslehoff Burrfoot
Half-Elf: Snow White

Tom_Kalbfus wrote:

You need some method to make magical space travel work. There was a movie not too long ago with a similar feel to Spelljammer. Zathura is what it was called, in that movie a magical board game caused a house with three kids to be sent into space, the house had its own gravity much like Spelljammer had.

Zathura wasn't a space movie... it was a knock off of Jumanji. And it wasn't space... it was a game world. Houses aren't usually that good in retaining heat and light in an interstellar vacuum.

Irrelevant, this is fantasy, not science fiction, and as the denzens of a fantasy setting don't have the means to construct a scientific space ship, they will construct a fantasy spaceship instead. The Gamemastery Guide lists several kinds of ships for nautical adventures, I think the first step is to adapt them for space travel. The Sailing ship, Warship, and Galley can be adapted for space travel with the appropriate magical device. I'm not sure we couldn't use a type of Helm, but perhaps our version doesn't have to consume the spells of spell casters. It could simply be a magic item with a connection to the Ethereal Plane, such that it makes the sails and oars of the ship to which its attached imperveous to the currents of the border Ethereal plane while simultaneously existing on the material plane, the Hull too for that matter, that means creatures such as ghosts phantoms and such cannot pass through these surfaces, it also allows the ethereal currents to fill the sails of spacegoing ships and provides propulsion, inertial control, gravity, and life support for these ships as they travel between the planets. A space sailor on the deck of these ships would perceive no motion while the ship travels in space alone, when two ships come within tactical distance, both ships slow down to the listed maximum Speeds of the GM's Guide relative to each other, that is the two ships velocities average out to a frame of reference and each ship can move at its listed tactical speed within that frame of reference until both ships seperate beyond a maximum tactical distance. To the sailors manipulating the sails, it feels as if they are filled with wind, to the rowers pulling the oars, it feels as if the oars are dipped into a liquid with the similar resistance to water and the ship is magically propelled through space.

I think the term "Helm" is not copyrighted, we just have to give it characteristics different from the Spelljammer setting.

Yes there will be a method.... it's already in game... Interplanetary Teleport. I assume that they'll do something for ships, but it will have to be different than helms, and they can't use the term wildspace either. It'll be some sort of spacey thing but it won't be Spelljammer.

Teleport is so boring, the point is to have encounters while traveling through space on the way to various destinations in space, a teleport spell just cuts across that distance, it is for higher level spellcasters who want to save time and avoid encounters on their journey. One normally can't teleport a whole ship, and when teleporting to an unfamiliar destination, one doesn't know what one is getting into.

Actually Zathura was a book before it was a movie, and it was written seperately, not as a sequel to Jumanji, but it happens to be the same idea except for a different setting, it is a different kind of space than the one our spaceships travel to, for instance their encounter with reptilian aliens "Lizardfolk" whose spaceships are fueled by furniture plundered from the house and other things that will burn in their furnace. What makes it fantasy is that and the means by which those children and their house end up in this space, a magic boardgame. "Zathura" might make a great name for the RPG if it were available, the boardgame being just another magical device that got them there.

Mnemaxa wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Tom_Kalbfus wrote:

Spelljammer was fun. Now will Pathfinder adopt the whole nine yards, with 500,000 gp Helms, hammerships, and planar gravity fields for small objects?

Paizo can't touch ANY of it. WOTC IP again. Nothing of Spelljammer is open content. Dragonstar on the other hand.....

Ah, but they can't put a copyright on a genre, can they?

Behold!

It's not spelljammer any more than Dragonstar was. It's not going to be the whole nine yards that you asked about, there won't be helms, hammerships, and as far as I know, we may very well be restricted to Newtonian gravity.

You need some method to make magical space travel work. There was a movie not too long ago with a similar feel to Spelljammer. Zathura is what it was called, in that movie a magical board game caused a house with three kids to be sent into space, the house had its own gravity much like Spelljammer had.

Spelljammer was fun. Now will Pathfinder adopt the whole nine yards, with 500,000 gp Helms, hammerships, and planar gravity fields for small objects?

I'm working on a Spelljammer version of Earth's Solar System, which includes a fantasy version of Mars, and Venus, and a Roman gods pantheon where deities of the same name reside on each planet, doesn't mean they are easy to find, if one lands on the planet, but each planet reflects a bit of the character of the residing deity. Mars for example, has a lot of warring nations fighting for scarce resources on Mars' dry surface, it includes a Lowellian canal system. Venus is a cloud covered planet who's entire land surface is covered with jungle, even at the poles. The Moon looks starkly different, covered with crater lakes, mare seas, and sylvan forests on the shores. Earth looks like Earth, though this is a fantasy version of Earth, the continents and geographic outlines are the same, the nations inhabiting the surface are different, as well as there being fantasy races and monsters populating it.

A spelljammeresque "world" would be interesting.

Of course the magic item does not tie up a character, it can do teleport after teleport without supervision from a character who has to cast the teleport spell. The item's purpose is to facilitate commerce between two distant points on the globe, a first level character can use it, it is preset to teleport to the other disk, it takes a wizards to use the attached crystal ball to set it to teleport somewhere else.

Here's the idea a party consisting of every core character class and every race, all drawn from popular culture, History or literature.

Barbarian: The first one is Conan the Barbarian
Bard: The Pied Piper
Clerc: Saint Patrick
Druid: ?
Fighter: Odysseus
Monk: ?
Paladin: Joan of Arc
Ranger: Robin Hood
Rogue: Ali Babba
Sorcerer: Circe the Sorceress
Wizard: Merlin

Elf: Peter Pan
Dwarf: Rumplestiltskin
Gnome: ?
Halfling: ?
Half-Elf: ?

I'l like to hear your ideas about filling these slots, and would these characters get along as a party?