Arcane sorcerer and metamagic rods

[Sylentenigma]

I need a ruling concerning the final ability arcane sorcerers receive and its implications with metamagic rods.

The arcane sorcerer's last ability is Arcane Apotheosis which allows him to cast metamagic spells without increasing casting time and also allows him to burn 3 spell slots in order to not use a charge off an object.

so first question is when using a metamagic rod other than a quicken, does this ability allow you to not increase the casting time when using a metamagic feat through a metamagic rod. Metamagic rods specifically say they act like the metamagic feat they contain when concidering the increase in casting time, thusly if they act like the feat does arcane apotheosis work for the rod the same way it works for the feat.

Second question is a little more complicated. If you look at the item creation table on page 550 of the core book under charges per day an item is given as an example. That item is boots of teleportation. So if you go to that item and look at the wording it does not mention charges per day it mentions being able to use it a number of times per day. If we look at the wording of metamagic rods the wording of (times per day) is the same. This infers that metamagic rods have 3 charges per day. If this is true then a sorcerer with arcane apatheosis can then expand 3 spell slots in order to prevent the use of the charge on the rod for that day. This would allow a much larger use out of a metamagic rod than normal. (IMO would break the arcane sorcerer)

I would like opinions on this but in the end i need a head rules guy to solve this.

[TwilightKnight]

First if you are waiting for a "head rule guy" as in a Paizo employee to rule on this, it is unlikely. They rarely get involved in rules discussion except when the question is pretty clearly stated or there is existing errata/FAQ material.

For your first question, no you cannot use Arcane Apotheosis with metamagic rods. The rods grant you an effect that replicates a given feat that can be applied three times per day. It doesn not temporarily grant you the feat. Therefore, the rod's ability to modify a spell cannot be affected by skills/abilities that modify metamgic feats.

The reference in the table uses general terms to assit in creating magic ites. Yes, it refers to the boots, but not to say it has charges, but rather to use that language to allow for cost analysis. The item itself and rods, which are worded the same, do not have charges, they have uses per day which are treated differently. So no, Ancane Apotheosis will not work with metamagic rods.

[Allia Thren]

I think with charges it means things like wands and staffs. Charges are usually expended when used and won't magically regrow with the next sunrise.

So technically I guess you could use a wand and spend 3 level 1 slots and not use a charge from the wand. If that's smart or not, I dunno, since you already paid for the charges already, and could just use them.

Well if the GM allows you to buy "used" wands with just a few charges left, for a lower price and you buy a wand with just 1 charge of a level 9 spell... then it might be broken.

But then agian, you're level 20 at that time, and can pretty much rewrite reality already, so what the hell... :)

[shea83]

You can't use Arcane Apotheosis with metamagic rods....but you're not considering the BEST use of that ability which is, in my opinion, by far the best bloodline ability.

You can spend 3 slot (even 3 x lvl 1 slot) and use a wand or a staff without losing a charge....
That means:
1) You can use a lvl 9 spell for only 3 lvl slots !!!
2) You can potentially cast ANY SPELL!!! You can buy a staff with lvl 9 cleric spells, lvl 9 druid spells and use them (with the appropriate UMD check, often a 100% success if you're a mid-high lvl sorcerer with high charisma score and a circlet of persuasion) for only 3 lvl slots....
That's completely broken, making the Arcane Sorcerer the most versatile caster ever.
Nothing says you can't use Arcane Apotheosis with non-class spells in wands and staffs so you CAN :)

Best build would be:

lvl 14 arcane sorcerer with a 16,000 investment of a robe of arcane heritage (from APG) and you can cast lvl 9 spells of any class as they were 3 lvl class spells :)