You'd need to be 5th level no matter what. Maximum skill ranks is 1/level and you need 5 ranks in Stealth. Bard is a good option because you can use those perform dance ranks for other skills.
But as Dudemeister is saying, if you choose a bard archetype which keeps the Versatile Performance class feature, those skill ranks aren't "wasted", as they become your Acrobatics and Fly skill bonuses as well. Also, inspire courage can be activated with Perform (Dance), so you maintain the theme of your silent slipping through shadows type while still giving your allies those nice combat bonuses (unfortunately, the shadow itself is immune to inspire courage).
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You'd need to be 5th level no matter what. Maximum skill ranks is 1/level and you need 5 ranks in Stealth. Bard is a good option because you can use those perform dance ranks for other skills.But yet, after those 2 ranks, Dance is not needed for a Shadowdancer. Seems kind of useless to me.
Well they'd be useless for any other class but a Bard can use their dance ability for acrobatics and fly checks. So you can keep those ranks high and be a shadowDANCER, :)
I played a an Inquisitor/Shadow Dancer worshiping Mask in a Forgotten Realms game. Stealth is class skill for Inquisitors and the Darkness Domain with Night Subdomain works really well. Only took 4 levels of Shadow dancer though, got me everything I wanted with no loss of BAB. What was really cool was having Evasion and Stalwart.
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For Core only, you might also consider a Cleric with the Darkness and Trickery domains. That would give you a distinct role, you could lay down Darkness to cover everyone's stealth, and you'll be able to sneak around effectively. Take the role of an Archer Cleric.
You wouldn't need Shadowdancer at all with this build.
What about a Magus/Shadowdancer? I know it would suck losing all the caster levels, but you have the Magical Knack trait and Practiced Spellcaster feat (GM decision), giving you 3/5 CL for the class and some really neat abilities to combine Spellstrike with.
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So, not to try to talk you out of this or anything, but before you really commit yourself to playing a shadowdancer, you need to have a long talk with your dm about how he's going to handle hiding and stealth.
The stealth rules can be super complicated, and many people read them differently, so know how useful being able to hide in plain sight is according to your dm.
He might let you hide while everyone is watching you in broad daylight, or he might require you to be near a shadow or have concealment or... well, it goes on for about a hundred pages of posts last time I checked :p
I just spoke to my GM, and he's playing it as Max Ranks = Level + 3. So Level 2 would have max 5 ranks, level 10 would have max 13 ranks, etc. So that' a bit more helpful, perhaps. With the exception that for some classes, I can't get my third feat till level 5, (with exception to races and classes that give bonus feats early).
Honestly, I would try to talk him out of that if at all possible. Unless he's also using the 3.x version of 4x skill points at first level, he's severely crippling the entire skill system. Pathfinder has streamlined skills so max ranks = level, with 1 rank meaning you get a +3 class skill bonus. With max ranks = to level +3, a 1st level rogue would have to sink 4 of his 8 skill points into Stealth just to max it out, severely limiting his other skill options. And the average fighter would NEVER be able to max out even a single skill.
It's a pretty major part of the Pathfinder 3.x overhaul. Try pointing it out to him in the rulebooks and using an example like I gave to convince him to change those rules. Given that most Shadowdancers are rogues or another skill-based class, the skill system is especially important, and something like that can be just as crippling to your character build as feat choices.
Ah, the GM doesn't do the +3 class skill rank bonus.
Honestly, I would try to talk him out of that if at all possible. Unless he's also using the 3.x version of 4x skill points at first level, he's severely crippling the entire skill system. Pathfinder has streamlined skills so max ranks = level, with 1 rank meaning you get a +3 class skill bonus. With max ranks = to level +3, a 1st level rogue would have to sink 4 of his 8 skill points into Stealth just to max it out, severely limiting his other skill options. And the average fighter would NEVER be able to max out even a single skill.I just spoke to my GM, and he's playing it as Max Ranks = Level + 3. So Level 2 would have max 5 ranks, level 10 would have max 13 ranks, etc. So that' a bit more helpful, perhaps. With the exception that for some classes, I can't get my third feat till level 5, (with exception to races and classes that give bonus feats early).
The +3 class skill rank bonus doesn't apply to your skill ranks, but rather to the total bonus. Total bonus = Ability Mod. + Ranks + Misc. Mods. + Class skill bonus.
You must be minimum level 5 to be a Shadowdancer.I am playing a lvl 8 Half-Elf Rogue Scout which I picked up scouts charge at lvl 4 and skirmisher at 8 instead of uncanny dodge@4(improved@8). I also invested in agile maneuvers via combat trick and weapon finesse via finesse rouge. I am planning on picking up Shadowdancer at lvl 9.
I easily hold my own in combat with two half-giant pcs.
Hi, I'm starting to learn Pathfinder rules, via the core rulebook, not outside sources.
I have to build a level 10 character, but I have yet to roll my stats or HP.
I am really interested in becoming a Shadowdancer, but I am unsure of the best build for it.
The Pre-reqs are:
Skills:
Stealth 5 ranks
Perform (dance) 2 ranks
Feats:
Combat Reflexes
Dodge
MobilityNow I thought maybe a Half-Elf Monk 2 Shadowdancer 8 would be a decent build with the Monk part dealing a stunning fist and a flurry of blows while the target could be flanked by a Shadow that is doing Strength damage, plus having the extra Fortitude to protect against negative levels should the Shadow be destroyed or dismissed.
Another idea was that I choose Rogue with Assault Leader talent so that should the Rogue miss, the Shadow can deal an extra strength damage, however, the Rogue would have to be level 5 before I could start getting Shadowdancer levels.
So, I would like to hear peoples thoughts on the most appropriate race, class and build for a Shadowdancer.
Thanks in advance,
originalazrael.
It's not level 10, but I have a level 15 character available. Maybe it gives you some ideas :-)
DARIUS SCHATTENHAND CR 14
Male Half-Elf Fighter 5 Shadowdancer 10
NG Medium Humanoid (Elf, Human)
Init +2; Senses Darkvision (60 feet), Low-Light Vision; Perception +20
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DEFENSE
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AC 30, touch 15, flat-footed 27. . (+9 armor, +6 shield, +2 Dex, +2 deflection, +1 dodge)
hp 129 (5d10+10d8+45)
Fort +15, Ref +13, Will +12
Defensive Abilities Bravery +1, Defensive Roll (1/day), Evasion, Improved Evasion, Improved Uncanny Dodge (Lv >=14), Shadow Master; Immune sleep; Resist acid 10, cold 10, Elven Immunities
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OFFENSE
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Spd 30 ft.
Melee +1 Ghost Touch Shortspear +17/+12/+7 (1d6+5/20/x2) and
. . +5 Ghost Touch Adamantine Greatsword +24/+19/+14 (2d6+16/17-20/x2) and
. . Unarmed Strike +16/+11/+6 (1d3+4/20/x2)
Ranged +1 Longbow, Composite (Str +3) +15/+10/+5 (1d8+4/20/x3)
Special Attacks Shadow Master, Weapon Training: Blades, Heavy
Spell-Like Abilities Shadow Call (4/day), Shadow Illusion (4/day), Shadow Power (2/day)
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STATISTICS
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Str 16/18, Dex 13/15, Con 14/16, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 15
Base Atk +12; CMB +16; CMD 31 (35 vs. Disarm35 vs. Sunder)
Feats Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round), Dodge, Eldritch Heritage, Improved Critical: Greatsword, Improved Eldritch Heritage, Improved Iron Will (1/day), Improved Shield Bash, Iron Will, Mobility, Power Attack -4/+8, Skill Focus: Heal (Adaptability), Vital Strike, Weapon Focus: Greatsword, Weapon Specialization: Greatsword
Traits Classically Schooled, Indomitable Faith
Skills Acrobatics +20, Bluff +15, Climb +10, Diplomacy +7, Disable Device +1, Disguise +12, Escape Artist +6, Handle Animal +7, Heal +5, Intimidate +7, Knowledge (Arcana) +3, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +6, Knowledge (Engineering) +6, Perception +20, Perform (Dance) +7, Ride +7, Sleight of Hand +6, Spellcraft +10, Stealth +25, Survival +5, Swim +8, Use Magic Device +17
Languages Common, Elven, Gnome, Halfling
SQ Armor Training 1 (Ex), Elf Blood, Fast Stealth (Ex), Gloves of Dueling, Hide in Plain Sight (Su), Shadow Jump (320'/day) (Su), Slippery Mind (Ex), Summon Shadow (Su)
Combat Gear +1 Ghost Touch Shortspear, +1 Longbow, Composite (Str +3), +3 Fortification, Light, Glamered, Shadow Mithral Breastplate, +5 Ghost Touch Adamantine Greatsword, +5 Mithral Buckler, Arrows (40), Arrows, Blunt (20); Other Gear Belt of Physical Perfection, +2, Cloak of Resistance, +5, Gloves of Dueling, Handy Haversack (empty), Periapt of Proof against Poison, Potion of Restoration, Lesser, Ring of Protection, +2, Wand of Cure Light Wounds, Wand of Darkness, Wand of Inflict Light Wounds, Wand of Knock
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Armor Training 1 (Ex) Worn armor -1 check penalty, +1 max DEX.
Bravery +1 (Ex) +1 Will save vs. Fear
Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round) You may make up to 3 attacks of opportunity per round, and may make them while flat-footed.
Damage Resistance, Acid (10) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Acid attacks.
Damage Resistance, Cold (10) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Cold attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Defensive Roll (1/day) (Ex) Once per day, attempt to narrowly escape death.
Eldritch Heritage Gain a bloodline power
Elf Blood You are counted as both elves and humans for any effect relating to race.
Elven Immunities +2 save bonus vs Enchantments.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to Sleep effects.
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Fast Stealth (Ex) You may move at full speed while using the Stealth skill without penalty.
Gloves of Dueling These supple leather gloves grant the wearer gains a +4 bonus to his CMD against disarm attacks, attempts to sunder his wielded weapons, and effects that cause him to lose his grip on his weapons (such as grease). The wearer doesn’t drop held weapons when panicked or stunned. If the wearer has the weapon training class feature and is using an appropriate weapon, his weapon training bonus increases by +2.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, greater magic weapon; Cost 7,500 gp
Hide in Plain Sight (Su) You can use Stealth even while observed, as long as there is a shadow within 10'
Improved Eldritch Heritage Gain an additional bloodline power
Improved Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead. If you fail you take half damage.
Improved Iron Will (1/day) 1/day, re-roll a Will save.
Improved Shield Bash You still get your shield bonus while using Shield Bash.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Lv >=14) (Ex) Retain DEX bonus to AC when flat-footed. You cannot be flanked unless the attacker is Level 14+.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Mobility +4 to AC against some attacks of opportunity.
Power Attack -4/+8 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Shadow Call (4/day) (Sp) You can use Greater Shadow Conjuration as a spell-like ability
Shadow Illusion (4/day) (Sp) You can use Silent Image as a spell-like ability.
Shadow Jump (320'/day) (Su) Travel between shadows instantly.
Shadow Master (Su) Gain DR 10/– and +2 to all saves while in dim light and critical hits against targets in dim light inflict blindness for 1d6r.
Shadow Power (2/day) (Sp) You can use Shadow Evocation as a spell-like ability.
Slippery Mind (Ex) Two saves vs Enchantment spells.
Summon Shadow (Su) Summon a Shadow to serve as your companion.
Vital Strike Standard action: x2 weapon damage dice.
Weapon Training: Blades, Heavy +3 (Ex) +3 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Heavy Blades
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Note:
- Heavenly fire missing 1d4+6 5/day
- About 2000 GP left from WBL
Generally speaking I feel that full bab classes are the best entries into the class. Fighter allows you to cover all your entry requirements with bonus feats while keeping your normal feats available.