originalazrael's page

I've always done it where XP is rewarded at the end of each session, and if they level, then they can level before the next game. If they are low on health and spells, then they gain the extra benefits from levelling instantly, but it's nothing that ever affected the game too much.

Really, it's up to you though. Being a GM means you can add or remove certain rules as you desire, as long as the players are okay with it.

originalazrael wrote:

I just spoke to my GM, and he's playing it as Max Ranks = Level + 3. So Level 2 would have max 5 ranks, level 10 would have max 13 ranks, etc. So that' a bit more helpful, perhaps. With the exception that for some classes, I can't get my third feat till level 5, (with exception to races and classes that give bonus feats early).

Honestly, I would try to talk him out of that if at all possible. Unless he's also using the 3.x version of 4x skill points at first level, he's severely crippling the entire skill system. Pathfinder has streamlined skills so max ranks = level, with 1 rank meaning you get a +3 class skill bonus. With max ranks = to level +3, a 1st level rogue would have to sink 4 of his 8 skill points into Stealth just to max it out, severely limiting his other skill options. And the average fighter would NEVER be able to max out even a single skill.

Ah, the GM doesn't do the +3 class skill rank bonus.

The stealth rules can be super complicated, and many people read them differently, so know how useful being able to hide in plain sight is according to your dm.

He might let you hide while everyone is watching you in broad daylight, or he might require you to be near a shadow or have concealment.

I did have a look at Cleric, actually. I'm thinking maybe Elf Cleric 8 (with Darkness and Death Domains), and Shadowdancer 2.

Then putting all spells into Cure and Inflict X Wounds. Cure for the party, Inflict for Me and my Shadow. Plus Selective Channelling for when I run out of a certain spell.

Then being a Ranged fighter, only coming in for the touch attacks and healing.

Also, I have been allowed to roll my stats. They are as follows:

10
14
15
16
17
17

I was thinking maybe:

STR 10
DEX 17 +2 Racial = 19
CON 15 -2 Racial = 13
INT 17 +2 Racial = 19
WIS 16 +2 Leveling = 18
CHA 14

Thoughts?

originalazrael wrote:

But if I was to stick to the core rulebook only, what would be best?

Then I'd say go with mostly a fighter who takes 3 levels into shadowdancer.

I see. Use him as a ranged tank or something?

How are the fighter and rogue in the party built? Depending on how they've elected to focus you could find niches there.

The Rogue is built as the classic Trapfinder/Pickpocket/Diplomat, (with the Bard as a secondary Diplomat). Fighter is built like a tank.

But in all honesty the party would be better off with a healer imho...

The Bard has stuck all his spells into healing, so all he does is sit back and use bardic performance to give us a +2 in attacks and defence, and heals when necessary.

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

You'd need to be 5th level no matter what. Maximum skill ranks is 1/level and you need 5 ranks in Stealth.

originalazrael wrote:

I just had a look at the book and it says, "You can never have more ranks in a skill than your total number of Hit Dice." This is confusing me. So is it as DM says, or what?

First, the other poster is correct you need to be 5th level to have 5 ranks in a skill. Thus the earliest you can enter into shadowdancer is at 6th level (i.e. rogue5/shadowdancer1, etc).

I just spoke to my GM, and he's playing it as Max Ranks = Level + 3. So Level 2 would have max 5 ranks, level 10 would have max 13 ranks, etc. So that' a bit more helpful, perhaps. With the exception that for some classes, I can't get my third feat till level 5, (with exception to races and classes that give bonus feats early).

Halfling Oracle of life w/ Deaf curse. Feats: Skill Focus: Stealth, Selective Channel, Eldritch Heritage (Shadow), Hellcat Stealth, Feat.. and then taking improved eldritch heritage (shadow) at 11th picking up hide in plain sight (well that and a little more).

The 9th level feat likely should be either quicken or reach spell metamagic feat with the other taken at 13th.

Now this doesn't fit your core only requirement, but it does fit with what you wanted (a stealthy character tied to shadows) and it fits a need in your party.

-James

It does sound nifty. I'll see if the GM will allow it. I couldn't find Hellcat Stealth, but the others seem decent.

I assume this is a level 10 Oracle, with my 11th level going into Shadowdancer?

I think he wants to stick to the core rulebook, though. I don't think he'd even allow a rogue to get Assault Leader. But I can try, at least.

But if I was to stick to the core rulebook only, what would be best?

Even in those books it took a sword made by the gods to kill a god.

That's what I did in my Star Wars D20 game. I had the players find a rusted sword, that was no stronger than a dagger. However, at full power it was an instant kill for a god. They were told it was a great weapon of immeasurable power. That gave the players a chance to work on fixing up the sword, (getting someone to unrust it, another to charge it, etc), if they desired, making it get stronger and stronger as it got more fixed up.

What actually happened, was that the rest of the party wanted to discard or sell it, but another player was decided to keep it. Because it was so weak, it was always at the back of his mind, and halfway through the game, he decided to get the rust cleaned, in which it became a 1d6 weapon instead of 1d4. The player then realised the power in the weapon, and continued to get it fixed up, (sometimes he had to wait for the right cash to come into hand, other times he had the Diplomat convince someone to take care of it), but at the end of the game, when they encountered the god, since the sword was weaker than his main weapon, he never thought about it till he was on 3hp, in which he went for broke. Because the sword had been fully upgraded, it was unblockable and instant kill against gods, and the party just barely won against the god, (which they attacked first, instead of using Diplomacy). So in the end, the sword which the party was ready to ditch at the beginning of the game became the deus ex machina.

*Note: I never even gave the god stats, except for HP and Saves. This God didn't even have a BAB or anything.

Perhaps you just need to do something similar to that?

I think you want to flesh out more on what role(s) that your character will be handling for your party.

Who else is playing what?

We have a Human Bard, an Elven Rogue, a human Monk, a Gnome Sorceror, and a Tiger Fighter.

Honestly, I see no room for me in there at all, really.

What about the shadowdancer appeals to you?

I think the whole stealth part, and using the shadows to protect you is what really appeals to me.

You'd need to be 5th level no matter what. Maximum skill ranks is 1/level and you need 5 ranks in Stealth.

I just had a look at the book and it says, "You can never have more ranks in a skill than your total number of Hit Dice." This is confusing me. So is it as DM says, or what?

originalazrael wrote:

Jadeite wrote:

DGRM44 wrote:

Haven't some of the Gods been killed? How did that happen?

I'm pretty sure not by the hands of a level 20 party.

Even if a party tried to take on a god, with a being that could write an entire planet, I'm sure unwriting a group of four or five level 20s wouldn't be too difficult.

To be fair, consider Cayden Cailean, who sorta drunk-stumbled into divinity. If a drunkard can stumble through the Test of the Starstone while on a bet, I'd wager that a level 20 party probably could, as well. Moreover, I'd bet a set of juiced up 20s could then proceed to do a whole heck of a lot, assuming they don't splinter.

Fair point. And the GM, er, I mean Gods, could always roll a 1. :P

DGRM44 wrote:

Haven't some of the Gods been killed? How did that happen?

I'm pretty sure not by the hands of a level 20 party.

Even if a party tried to take on a god, with a being that could write an entire planet, I'm sure unwriting a group of four or five level 20s wouldn't be too difficult.

I thought you were asking for a plan, not that you already had one?

Huh?

What do you plan for the character to be doing?

I'm not sure yet. I don't know anything about the campaign so far, but I thought I would have him more as assistance, letting the shadow deal the strength damage, and me just there more for flanking and support.

But if there's another build for better strategies, I don't mind hearing them.

I would suggest Fighter5/Shadowdancer3 as a start if only using core material (then the last 2 levels as you see fit).

I would also like to point out, that I plan to go all 10 levels in Shadowdancer.

I would suggest Fighter5/Shadowdancer3 as a start if only using core material (then the last 2 levels as you see fit).

If using other Paizo material I'd go with a human rogue7/shadowdancer3.

-James

Any particular reason?

Forgive the double post as well, as I am still trying to work these boards out, and couldn't find the Edit button.

So your suggestions are, so far:

Half-Elf
Bard 5/ Shadowdancer 5
Heavy on Charisma and Dex
Versatile Performance (dance)

Skills:
Perform (dance) 5 ranks + Skill Focus
Stealth (5 ranks)

Feats:
Skill Focus (Half-Elf Racial Feat)
Combat Reflexes
Dodge
Mobility

Equipment:
Perhaps a Wand of Inflict X Wounds for use on the Shadow.

Bardic Spells:
Ghost Sound
Silent Image
Ventroliquism
Invisibility
Silence
Suggestion

What else would help?

Also, inspire courage can be activated with Perform (Dance), so you maintain the theme of your silent slipping through shadows type while still giving your allies those nice combat bonuses (unfortunately, the shadow itself is immune to inspire courage).

Ah I see. Forgive my n00bishness, but this is why I ask. :)

You'd need to be 5th level no matter what. Maximum skill ranks is 1/level and you need 5 ranks in Stealth. Bard is a good option because you can use those perform dance ranks for other skills.

But yet, after those 2 ranks, Dance is not needed for a Shadowdancer. Seems kind of useless to me.

Hi, I'm starting to learn Pathfinder rules, via the core rulebook, not outside sources.

I have to build a level 10 character, but I have yet to roll my stats or HP.

I am really interested in becoming a Shadowdancer, but I am unsure of the best build for it.

The Pre-reqs are:
Skills:
Stealth 5 ranks
Perform (dance) 2 ranks
Feats:
Combat Reflexes
Dodge
Mobility

Now I thought maybe a Half-Elf Monk 2 Shadowdancer 8 would be a decent build with the Monk part dealing a stunning fist and a flurry of blows while the target could be flanked by a Shadow that is doing Strength damage, plus having the extra Fortitude to protect against negative levels should the Shadow be destroyed or dismissed.

Another idea was that I choose Rogue with Assault Leader talent so that should the Rogue miss, the Shadow can deal an extra strength damage, however, the Rogue would have to be level 5 before I could start getting Shadowdancer levels.

So, I would like to hear peoples thoughts on the most appropriate race, class and build for a Shadowdancer.

Thanks in advance,
originalazrael.