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This inquiry is for players and GMs alike who have played through/GMed the Legacy of Fire AP.
GMs: please use spoiler tags when necessary.
There are 2 intentions of this post.
1. For others to be able to make an informed decision of whether this AP will be a good fit for your players as well as to see if the AP style works with the GM's storytelling style.
2. For Paizo staff to be able to keep track of what their customers/fans think of the APs and use the information to improve the APs in the future.
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As a player, I have only played the first adventure which I thought was a little cliche'. I feel that our group lost interest because of a combination of that and that we had a first-time GM. I feel that our players unfortunately needed something a little more engaging.
I then read though the whole AP and at that point WISHED that we had never stopped.
I won't comment on the rest of the AP because I haven't played or GMed it.
This is my 2nd favorite AP that Paizo has put out. It's great.
Likes:
- strong theme, (Arabian Nights) with thematic elements repeatedly reinforcing said theme
- great locations: markets of Katapesh, Isles of Karkishon, City of Brass, etc
- "home again": having book 6 be a whirlwind revisit of book 1&2's location was a really great way to end things
- good oppurtunities for GMs to insert side adventures (in between books 1&2, middle of book 3, middle of book 4)
- good build-up for the BBEGs; you always know a fair amount about the person you're trying to kill
- strong background
- the players got to be heroes the whole way through; the Good-er, the better
Dislikes:
- the stealing and opening of the scroll in book 3 requires some GM finesse to thread the players through the eye of the plot-needle
- book 5 was too long for what it was trying to do: should have been 1/3 to 1/2 the length
- wasn't a dislike for me, but some people will surely dislike the Arabian theme
For me, this AP has a completely story driven architecture. If you have a play group that is more into the hack-and-slash-how-much-XP-did-I-get mentality then this AP is probably not the best for that group. But if you get a group that can get into the whole story and are willing to really *PLAY* in the story then this is the best AP that I have read.
That said, I do have a few 'issues':
1. Book 3. The GM has to really work hard in order to get the PCs to play nice with regards to the author's plot lines. There is so much wasted potential in this book with the players being the Katapesh marketplace that it is almost a travesty. I seriously had to apologize to my players for the heavy-handed railroading.
2. Far to many uses of pocket dimensions/locking the players in places where they have no or limited access to resources.
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We just put an end to book 3 last night and were forced into beginning book 4, so my perspective is from halfway through.
Good:
Arabian Nights feel mashed up with other Middle Eastern concepts.
Great over-arching plotlines.
Excellent artwork, maps.
Great villains, allies, NPCs in general.
I like how the jail dimensions seem to mirror the "genie in a bottle" concept, but the players suddenly find themselves as the ones locked up in the bottle.
Bad:
There are several places in the AP where the players can "Go directly to Go" like in Monopoly. The party skipped most of Book 2 by going almost nearly directly to Ghartok and then from there to the lower levels to retrieve the scroll. There was so much good material skipped in the House of the Beast. There was no chance to run the Set Piece there. Also, in the Jackal's Price, the plotline split my party in half against one another with half wanting to steal the scroll from the other half to sell it. In order to keep the PCs from killing one another off, I had to cut it short and plunge them into Kakishon. Again, we missed the entire One Source/Father Jackal half of the book. It's hard to keep the PCs at the proper Experience Levels when so much of the material is skipped. I'm not going to allow a TPK just because they unraveled the AP.
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I enjoyed GMing this AP.
Likes:
The arabian theme and feel. Much of the setting, items, and NPC's really added to the experience.
Awesome NPC's
A great story line
Heroic players
Dislikes:
A few disconnects from book to book. Can be fixed by the GM, but you have to keep an eye out for them.
Books 4 and 5 had a similar feel.
Book review:
1) I really liked this one. I added a few items and used the set piece to make it feel a little more sandbox. I built a model of the Battlemarket which was fun to use.
2) Another good part of the storyline. NPC's were great.
3) Urban style. Added parts to enjoy the market more. The Dark Markets of Katapesh book helped a bunch here.
4) A change of pace. Fun for the players. Many tough decisions for them.
5) Liked this one the least, by far. Cut a bunch out so we could move through it faster. Too similar to the situation in book 4. Should have involved more of the city of Brass.
6) A very epic feel to the comclusion of the AP. This was a great ending.
I had 6 AWESOME players that made this AP my favorite campaign to date (30 years). They really made the adventure beyond cool thanks to their cool character concepts and roleplay.
I'm GMing this AP now and I really enjoy it. In part that's the result of a fun storyline and in part it's the result of great players. I want to stress how important it is to give the party the chance to do things their way and to be willing to improvise on the fly.
LIKES:
- Pugwampis. Love 'em.
- Arabian Feel
- Flavorful NPC's
- The battle market
- Kakishon. I'm not sure I want my PC's to leave it!
DISLIKES:
- Adventure #3. I skipped it entirely and replaced it with a Sinbad-like adventure of my own involving the Sunset Ship. My players would have mutinied at the extreme railroading in this adventure, and they would have been right to do so.
I've got to agree with Dave the Barbarian. Books #4 and #5 are too simular for my players. When I did my first read-through, it was like "wait a minute!!! Didn't we just do that??"
As it stands now, I'm going to run parts #1-2 as a mini campaign, and move on to other adventurers from there.
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My favourite AP so far.
Likes:
-Arabian feel was skillfully evoked.
-The BBEG first appears in book 3 with the final 3 books exploring who he is and what his plan is. Many AP's don't even refer to the BBEG until book 6 (Kingmaker and Carrion Crown, I'm looking at you)
-Memorable NPC's throughout the campaign.
-Nice narrative and varied encounters.
-Good use of recurring enemies, particularly Fire Giants, Gnolls and Genies of all types. A nice change from the old standbys (Goblins, Orcs, Undead etc.)
-Pugwumpi.
Dislikes
-Book 3 was too short.
-Everything hinges on coincidence and the players doing what the plot expects. This can cause issues with certain players.
-Set Pieces were a bad idea.
-Book 5 was a bit of a slog and used the same plot device as book 4. A better plot would have been a City of Brass based investigation/exploration/roleplaying scenario. After all there was already a dungeon crawl in book 2 and having 2 big dungeons in one AP felt a bit much.
-Jhavhul was a pushover.
-Lack of places to sell stuff in books 4 and 5 was a problem.
I seem to be in the minority here, but I've just finished Book 3 with my group and they seem to have enjoyed it the best. The final battle was a bit of a letdown from behind the monkey screen for me cause the players were flawless in execution and "went the right way." But had they not done that, they may not have survived.
Book 1 was a bit tougher than it needed to be and resulted in two deaths really through no fault of the PCs.
Book 2 was fun but became a bit of a grind. However, that set up Book 3 nicely for my group who really got their R-O-L-E playing on. Plus, Book 3 allowed for more DM ad-lib and NPC depth on my part which was enjoyed by both myself and my players.
I'm looking forward to Book 4 and how the transition from several sessions of urban adventure transitions to a sudden WTF moment. I can see the similarity in concept of Book 4 and 5 being a problem, but one is executed using a more sandbox method while the other is more dungeon method. That should make them bearable, that and the environments are vastly different.
And the go home feel of Book 6 I'm sure will be a hit.
I actually feel that the Arabian feel of the AP is a bit lighter than it could be. I was expecting a bit more flavor than was present, as the Arabian feel was why I picked this AP to run despite it being 3.5 and requiring some extra work to convert. But I'm not disappointed in my choice at all.
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Contributor
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Wrapped this up about a month ago.
Pros
-The story. Easily among the best in the AP series. Just all around cool.
-Arabian Nights feel and the new monsters. All of it was pretty awesome.
-Books 1, 4 and 6 are fantastic. Just superb adventures.
Cons
-2 full-book dungeon slogs. Both House of the Beast and The Impoosible Eye took too long to play. I cut swathes from Impossible Eye and it still took too long. Then Book 6 with 2 half-book slogs. Too much dungeon for this AP.
-The story railroad from Boook 3-5. Each seperately was fine, was back-to-back-to-back was a tough sell.
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This sounds nice. Would you mind to share the outline of your Sindbad-y Adventures with us? My group won't hit book two in a couple of month, because I am doing some major sidetracking in order to flesh out the rebuilding of Kelmerane ... They have grown reeeeaaaally attached to the city ... this will make the second liberation in book 6 that much the sweeter.
DISLIKES:
- Adventure #3. I skipped it entirely and replaced it with a Sinbad-like adventure of my own involving the Sunset Ship. My players would have mutinied at the extreme railroading in this adventure, and they would have been right to do so.
I had the players convinced that the future safety of Kelmerane and Katapesh were bound up with the fate of the Scroll of Kakishon. Their sage friend told them that only an oracle on an island far out to sea would know the magical phrase necessary to open the way into Nex's pocket paradise.
The very menacing Captain of the Sunset Ship made them an Offer They Couldn't Refuse for the Scroll (I think I offered 500,000 gold in diamonds, rubies and emeralds). The Captain really freaked them out and they refused. After being pressured to sell by the Pactmasters, whom the PCs also deeply mistrusted, the Pcs took passage on a ship headed near the Oracle's island.
The Sunset Ship followed them, and a sea chase took place. As the Sunset Ship closed in, both ships were swept into an enormous maelstrom at the bottom of which was a gargantuan ship-destroying monster called the Charybdis. The battle raged and the PCs ship tore apart, throwing them all into the sea (Sinbad was constantly being shipwrecked).
I had the PCs roll saves for all their gear, giving bonuses for anything they'd explicitly strapped to their bodies. Those that failed were ripped away on the waves. The PCs were then deposited on the shores of a jungles isle. Traveling inland, they were attacked by a an overwhelmingly large band of natives, but we're then rescued by a rival band.
The rescuers took the PCs to their goddess, a lillend. Unbeknownst to the PCs, the lillend was once part of the army of djinn commanded by Nefeshti. She shared the island with a rival "god", a noble efreet who had been a general in Jhavul's army. The lillend told the PCs that she knew where the Oracle lived, but that no living creature could approach the Oracle's island and live. She would tell the PCs how to safely approach the Oracle if they rid her of the noble efreet. She gave them an old black lantern in which to contain the efreet. She didn't tell them how it worked and they didn't ask...
The PCs agreed. The noble lived in a jungle temple prtotected by dire apes and a powerful antipaladin. Once in the temple, they faced a very young red dragon, a number of cultist archers, and an evil monk, as well as the anti paladin, who had retreated to allow the dire apes to fight the PCs. Later, they were joined by several small fire elementals and a ( very effective) illusion of another antipaladin, as well as the noble efreet. It was a hell of a battle which the PCs would have lost if they hadn't remembered the lantern. Opening it near the efreet caused him to be instantaneously drawn into it.
The PCs returned to the lillend in triumph. She rewarded them telling them that the Oracle could be approached only in dreams and that they needed to find a way to enter the Dreamlands (the plane of Dreams) and then go to the Oracle. Luckily, she told them, there was a ship grounded on this very island capable of sailing to the Dreamlands.
Traveling to the far shore of the island, they discovered the Sunset Ship. Only the Captain had survived, but he had summoned three Hounds of Tindalos to defend him. After killing the Hounds and The Captain, they seized the Sunset Ship and got it off the beach. They discovered that the engine that allowed the Sunset Ship to sail between the worlds was fueled by the agony of mortals. Someone had to ride inside the ship's engine and suffer horrible agony (as well as negative levels). The PCs took turns and sailed to the Dreamlands and then to the Oracle's island. There, they each got to ask one question each. They learned a lot of the backstory of Jhavul's, Nefeshti and The Firebleeder. They also learned the pass phrase for the Scroll of Kakishon.
The PCs returned to Katapesh in the Sunset Ship (it can be sailed normally on the mortal plane). There, the Pactmasters insisted that the PCs hand over the Sunset Ship to them. Knowing they had no hoice, they handed over the ship, but only after breaking a hole in its hull and sinking it in the harbor. Before the PCtmasters could exact their revenge, the PCs went to Rayhan's and spoke the fateful passwords over the Scroll of Kakishon.
Tarondor, that must have been an absolutly stunning adventure to play in. I envy your players. I may just steal elements of this (mostly the Lovecraft ones - the white ship, the dreamlands adventure, etc) once my players get into adventurer #3.
I'm constantly amazed by the collective creativity of these boards. Thanks to the idaes I've gained from other DM's who found this AP to be as dungeon-bash heavy as I have, I may just continue the AP after book #2. I think I can finally make thins work for my RP-heavy group.
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Woulld you guys mind helping me out a bit? HERE
Some of the things I've gleaned from reading this sound pretty awesome, so maybe a little more.
* There is a scroll that will be important
* We will be trapped beyond the Material plane
* Deep dungeon
* Know thy enemy (good NPC's)