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I'm trying to make my first PFS character, a scholarly type Paladin from Osirion. I'm interested in this faction/region, but for the life of me can't find an "egyption style" deity to select.
The character would be a loyal Osirion, believing in the authority of the Pharoah and the strength/nobility of the long dead Pharoah god-kings (which I would worship if I could).
- As a paladin, am I REQUIRED to have a specific deity in PFS?
- are cults/etc. legal? I found the cult of Wadjet in an Osirion supplement that would fit the thematic purpose. It has no domains (but I'm not a cleric, so I don't care)The closest meaningful option would be Abadar, but it doesn't seem right for my character concept.
Any other thoughts/recommendations?
Thanks!
to answer both your questions, Yes you need to have a Deity, and what do you mean by a cult?
What is wrong with Sarenrae?
Faith's of Purity is a good book to look at, It has Paladin Codes for the different Good gods, to include Sarenrae
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I was under the impression that Paladins did NOT need a deity (barring one archetype, which specifically states that only that they select one for the archtype.) They merely have to follow the tenets of their code. It's Clerics, Inquisitors, and Order of the Star Cavaliers that HAVE to take one.
As always, I could easily be wrong, and will be looking into it, out of my own curiosity.
Edit 1: On a quick PRD look, the only Paladin that MUST choose a deity are Sacred Servant Paladins. The core class says nothing of needing a deity, like the Cleric does. I would look through the Society guide, but that is a mild hassle on a phone.
If this isn't the case, then my Pally idea for a Paladin of Aroden isn't gonna be legal. D:
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I would look through the Society guide, but that is a mild hassle on a phone.The Guide only specifies Clerics and Cavaliers of Order of the Stars must select a deity.
to answer both your questions, Yes you need to have a DeitySource?
There is the possibility that I am confusing the cleric issue with the Paladin issue *Who remembers the old arguments about Asmodeous?*, I will see if I can find a source for what I thought was true, and if not I will retract my statement.
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As I recall, the final solution was that paladins should select a specific god and it should follow the one-step approach that a cleric uses--So LG/LN/NG alignment. My memory may not be sharp (old age will do that to ya).
Of course the rule exists in the forums, and is theoretically more of a guide than a rule ;-). Honestly, my paladin of Cayden Cailean may or may not be legal (although he certainly was when created).
The designers did clarify that they never intended for an evil deity (Asmodeus) to be a legal option for a paladin, but the exact restriction seems to be unclear and left to GM caveat.
Would a paladin of Aroden receive no spells? Or would they be granted by Iomedae by proxy? It seems to be unclear as well.
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As long as they follow their code, the powers of Law and Goodness give them their magic abilities. At least that how I see it, from a "not having to choose a deity" standpoint.
Also, in not-PFS (one not even in Golarion) games, I've written up Paladins of Pharasma and Cayden. They were a bit off from some of their deity's edicts, but still the more good and lawful bits.
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Honestly, my paladin of Cayden Cailean may or may not be legalAnd you wonder why he has died so many times at my table? It's not my fault that Cayden was too busy drinking to save your poor "Paladin." ;-)
His pally is dwarf too, right?
Reminds me of a quote: "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to get through life, son."
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His pally is dwarf too, right?
Reminds me of a quote: "Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to get through life, son."
Apparently it is in the Church of Cayden Cailean? :)
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I am going to retract my statement; I could not find any source that pointed to Paladins having to pick a Deity.
If you do pick a Deity though you are supposed to pick one that fits the Ideals of a Paladin, but even that has never been codified. We know some of the Gods who have Paladins, we do not know yet all the gods that can have Paladins but it just have not been pointed out, or Which ones do not fit the ideals for paladins.
Paizo seem to have the opinion that it is obvious which ones should not have Paladins, but from what I have seen from players they will come up with any convoluted excuses why their god should be allowed to have a Paladin. I wish they would be clearer on that personally.
Of course the rule exists in the forums, and is theoretically more of a guide than a rule ;-). Honestly, my paladin of Cayden Cailean may or may not be legal (although he certainly was when created).
Rangers are frequently too driven by their particular missions, and paladins, inquisitors, and monks are too focused.
Though it does not go right out and say Cayden Cailean does not have Paladins, it does strongly suggest he does not fit, and no Paladin code was given for him
And on your 'although he certainly *was Legal* was when created' comment, though a Paladins god is small potatoes compared to other things, Bob let me ask you if someone came to your table with an Ape with a Great sword would you accept 'Oh but it was legal when I created him' or a Hellknight from the now illegal version of the AP one vs. the Legal Inner Sea World Guide version? Though like I said granted your God is small potatoes comparinly, 'it was legal when I created him' is not an excuse for a illegal choice now, it should be changed if discovered to be illegal.
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And on your 'although he certainly *was Legal* was when created' comment, though a Paladins god is small potatoes compared to other things, Bob let me ask you if someone came to your table with an Ape with a Great sword would you accept 'Oh but it was legal when I created him' or a Hellknight from the now illegal version of the AP one vs. the Legal Inner Sea World Guide version? Though like I said granted your God is small potatoes comparinly, 'it was legal when I created him' is not an excuse for a illegal choice now, it should be changed if discovered to be illegal.
I would if the issue was made clear. Even in Faiths, it only suggests the idea. And there still seems to be some question if a paladin even needs to declare their deity. At the time he was created, there was the lack of clarity with the Asmodean paladin, so there were clearly some unintended issues with divine characters. Yes, that issue was clarified, but it seems that other issues still exist for paladins.
I guess I could just de-declare his god and just select some of the aspects of the faith (anti-slavery, etc).
Since, he is 11th level (near retirement), and has died three times (albeit by a notorious PC killer ;-) ), it would seem the build is not over-powered nor uber-optimized. The Cayden selection was a thematic one to jive with the stereotypical drunken dwarf image. He was been a blast to role-play.
I guess the question would also include, can paladins follow Aroden. He's a dead god. Would their pally powers manifest? Would they get spells? I don't know.
But as I said, if there was definitive ruling on either Cayden having/not having paladins, or paladins being required to select a deity, I would change him to remain legal. It's really not that big a deal and does not affect the character anywhere near the updates in animal companions. And it could be argued that the new version of the Hellknight is better, at least IMO.
The biggest issue with any pally is the player's interpretation of what it means to be one. Are you a mindless zealot? Do you think the needs of the many out weigh the few or the one?" There isn't really a right/wrong way to play the pally provided you are not overtly evil. And even then, what constitutes an evil act can be subjective.
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I have no issue with Bob's paladin of Cayden. Paladins of Cayden Cailean are implicitly allowed under the Play-Play-Play rule.
OK, seriously now. There are two players in my area who have "paladins of Gorum". It's a misunderstanding of the rules that has no effect in-game. It's on the same level as players who write their alignment on their character sheet but role-play something completely different. Does this campaign really expect me to police players on alignment violations, or help them to enjoy themselves & finish the scenario in the 4-hour time slot? As long as these paladins are not violating their code of conduct, I choose to overlook their mistakes because it's fun for the players. I could make them change their deity to Iomedae, but they aren't going to play their characters any different than they are now. So unless they are going into berserker rages and smiting non-combatants in the name of Gorum, I'm content to let sleeping dogs lie. Currently there is a player in my area who currently has an ex-Paladin due to a code of conduct violation, so I am not afraid to enforce the rules when they are broken.
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I was more having issue with Bob's 'It was legal when I made it comment', not really his choice of god, though if one of my players picked a Paladin god that obviously has no Paladins and goes against the Paladin code I would tell him to change it.
Not trying to pick a fight. I was just commenting that, at the time of creation, the paladin was legal according to the info at the time.
A lot of changes have occurred since then, but I don't see anything definitive regarding Cayden, only suggestions and innuendo. I would happily change if the rules required it.
Doug is correct in that I wouldn't change the way I play him regardless of the deity (or lack of one). As a matter of fact, it might be easier to just drop the deity assuming that we agree paladins are not required to select a deity. But I'm not sure that is clear either.
Sorry to derail the thread.
To the OP, if you want an ethnic Osirion (Keleshite) paladin in the Osirion faction, selecting Sarenrae seems like the way to go. Especially since you don't really seem to have a special schtick that would make another deity more applicable.
Also, the faction missions you will perform are rarely going to cause problems for your faith/code like some of the others can.
I wouldn't worry about all the splat books. The CRB works just fine, and there are some nice archetypes and alternate/additional stuff in the APG. If you want to dabble in another book, I would recommend Faiths of Purity just because it does a good job describing the faith and can help you develop the role-playing aspect of the character.
As one pally player to another, "May your god bless you" :-)
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Not trying to pick a fight. I was just commenting that, at the time of creation, the paladin was legal according to the info at the time.
A lot of changes have occurred since then, but I don't see anything definitive regarding Cayden, only suggestions and innuendo. I would happily change if the rules required it.
Then I apologize, I was more seeing it as an excuse on why you would not change it, something I have seen on these boards before. There are a few things that set me off, that being one of them *Others being people using Play, Play, Play! to do anything they want or another being players making up their own rules to get around rules they don't like, like reskinning a Companion so you can say it is something it is not, or basically anything Pain posts ;)*
Anyway like I said, I apologize.
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It's a good thing that Bob didn't mention his paladin's warhorse actually looks like a barrel with four sawhorse legs. Its got a wooden horse's head and a tassel tail that covers the spigot (He must like a lot of foam in his ale). Other than the hardness 5 (speed knocked down to 30' to compensate) it's identical to a heavy warhorse.
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It's a good thing that Bob didn't mention his paladin's warhorse actually looks like a barrel with four sawhorse legs. It's got a wooden horse's head and a tassel tail that covers the spigot (He must like a lot of foam in his ale). Other than the hardness 5 (speed knocked down to 30' to compensate) it's identical to a heavy warhorse.
You sure it doesn't also have construct traits?
Not so much difference between a construct & an animal, right?|
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Yes, well, other than the construct traits, the hardness, the fire resistance, the regeneration, the breath weapon (intoxicating cloud) and the neverending booze, it is pretty much a standard heavy warhorse. Essentially there are no in-game effects, pretty much, so we thought it was OK to do it even if it was sort of a rules 'grey area'. I will stress that Bob ONLY uses it in home games, local game days and at convention tables where the players are to drunk to care.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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The question of "where do a paladin's powers come from?" is left open and ambiguous under the Pathfinder ruleset, somewhat less so in the Golarion campaign setting. Paladins need to worship something lawfullish and/or goodish, but the can worship a pack of beings such as the Empyreal Lords, and still get saddled with the responsibility of supernatural powers.
If paladins get their abilities in the same way as Hellknights, then there's the example of the Order of the God-Claw, which worships a lawful amalgamation of gods including Iomedae and Asmodeus, from which it calls supernatural aid.
Clerics of Aroden are hosed; no question about that. Inquisitors of Aroden, probably hosed as well. Paladins of Aroden? If Iomedae doesn't empower them herself, maybe an amalgamation of sympathetic gods might.
(I'm now imagining a middling demon changing its true name to "Airhoddan" in order to receive the worship of humans who still revere the name of the Fallen God but who are losing track of his portfolio and teachings.)
