| TarkXT |
So a while ago while in the midst of a number of wonderful painkillers during hospitalization I came up with the concept for a homebrew game set in a post apocalyptic world of magic and horrific monsters.
Now while I never got around to actually building the system the world itself was mostly built in my head. However it did involve people who could summon, control, or otherwise deal with the massive mosnters and devastating demons of the world and use them to defend themselves. Whether these mosnters came from the persons subconscious, was bred to do battle, or was a captured and magically bound monster. Sound familiar?
So everyone's a summoner.
There are other classes, but they fall into NPC categories or are so rare that they are simply unavailable to pc's.
So let's talk about the world starting with a bit of history.
The Telvani do not know when they were first born to the world. Only that the world made them. They believed that they were the ones tasked with the sacred job of maintaining harmony and peace with the world. They did not know war, or hate, or conflict. All lived in peace with nature wnad with their mastery of magic their were no such things as fights over resources or territory. The planet thrived and communed with the Telvani as a god speaks to its followers. For ten thousand years the Telvani were like this. Until the demons arrived.
They came without warning, without fear and without mercy. They emerged from the shadowy corners of the world. They came from the deep places beneath the earth. They even emerged from their baleful portals from high in the sky and descended upon the Telvani in a ravening maw of flesh eating evil. The peace loving Telvani, who had never before even considered developing magic and tools for combat, were ill equipped to deal with this sudden and savage onslaught.
In desperation tey took their powers over the natural world and magic and applied them to the largest predators on their world turning them into terrible monsters they called Kujai. With practice and a strong will the Telvani could direct these massive warbeasts to their defense.
They had bred hundreds of Kujai and released them into the wild to kill the demons. This tactic proved ineffective as the Kujai were merely beasts and could not hope to provide an organized defense. On top of this the training of proper handlers was long and arduous. The war, for the Telvani, was already lost.
They retreated themselves to the northern most reaches of their world where the most powerful sorcerers of the Talvani called the Alberics, immortals with powers not unlike a demi-god, cast a great spell to seal the last of their great cities, shielding it from the dmeonic onslaught, and cutting the Telvani off from their beloved world.
Two hundred years has passed since the founding of Sanctuary. The Telvani have trained more sacred warriors and even developed new methods and weapons to combat the demons and now the rampaging wild Kujai. It would take four more centuries before the fighting force would be strong enough to face down the hordes of demons outside the city. However their have been a number of changes to the society of the Telvani, famine, poverty, and resouces are stretched. The city is overcrowded. It needs relief. On top of this the demons have begun the slow and terirble work of killing the planet itself. Already a full 30% of the planet has been blighted by their dark influence and the blight spreads every passing year. The world needs heroes.
So what of the Telvani?
The Telvani are in many ways similar to Elves on other worlds. They are slim with pale skin and solid eyes of many different shades of color. They are tall and gangly with pale gray skin and hair color ranging in numerous colors and shades. Their ears taper like those of elves but are not nearly as long more resembling those of half elves.
In terms of personality they more closely resemble humans than elves. They have a love for life and a passion for living. They are pacifistic though and the thought of doing physical conflict is alien to them. This doesn't stop them from feeling gruff or aggressive, they are simply not built for physical violence.
Racial Traits
+2 Con
+2 Cha
-2 Str
Telvani are hardy and passionate but weak limbed.
Medium
Normal Speed: Telvani move at 30ft.
Telvani Magic: Telvani recieve a +2 bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance. In addition, Telvani recieve a +2 racial bonus on Spellcraft checks to identify items.
Pacifist: Telvani are unaccustomed to violence and thus suffer a -2 penalty on all attack rolls.
Magical Gift: Telvani are naturally magical. They may choose two cantrips from the Wizard/Sorcerer spells list. They may cast either as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to their charisma modifier.
Artificer: Telvani are accustomed to using and handling magical items. They recieve Skill Focus (Use Magic Device) as a Bonus feat.
Summoners among the Telvani are not too much unlike Martial Artists of some worlds. Except where martial artists learn to turn their own body into living weapons, Telvani learn to wield their magic their creature, and themselves into a seamless whole. Over the past two centuries many different schools of thought and art have been developed.
In practice that means that all ARchetypes are available. There will also be campaign traits reflecting these various school;s There are schools that teach the taming of Kaiju. There are ones that teach hwo to take aspects of one's personality and creating a living being from it, and there is even a school that teaches one to bind and control the demons themselves.[/b]
[spoiler=Demons]Forget D&D type demons. These guys are far more alien and terrible. Think more Qlippoth or Gug or Sinspawn than Succubus or Balor.
So this is for now mostly an interest check. If you have a character idea that's cool just keep in mind that this is restricted purely to Telvani race and summoner class. So consider it something of a challenge to creating a concept to wrap around these ideas and still somehow be compelling. By Monday I'll have some solid character creation guidelines for people to follow.
I'll be answering questions for now and will prbably close down any potential recruitment on the 14th of July. That is unless the interest is such that I can get away with it.
I have yet to decide on the specific style of game so you can put a vote in for that as well.
Campaign/Character Plot oriented: Basicallya classic storytelling type game where the characters help drive the story along with their backstories and development while going through the plot.
Wilderness/Kingmaker: The city of sanctuary is overcrowded. So it's up to you to explore the frozen reaches outside the city to develop a colony and help ease the population by building a new place to live. Perhaps one day the twin cities can grow to take the entire planet back.
Horror/Investigation: Mysteries and alien creatures abound and it's up to the characters to find the cause and put an end to it.
Pokemon: Ack! Put your rotting tomatoes down! I admit Pokemon was one of the inspirations for this game. Basically think in terms of becoming the baddest summoner in the land. Go around the various schools, challenge people to one on one duels. Earn rewards. Get famous.
Anyway I look forward to the responses.
| Tiny Coffee Golem |
I'm interested. Ive got several Summoner ideas rolling around in my head. I'd prefer the Master Summoner archtype or maybe Synthesist though I havent decided how I feel about the synthesist yet.
Ive never played a summoner so this could be a really cool experience.
Id lean toward the wilderness campaign with perhaps just a smidge of the Pokemon thing. it sounds like good comic relief.
| Mark Sweetman |
This sounds like it could be a lot of fun. I'd be keen to throw up a vanilla Summoner with a Serpentine eidolon.
For campaign type - I think Wilderness / Kingmaker as a base with elements of the others tossed on top.
It would be very in line with flavor to have a ritual based tournament with eidolon/s vs eidolon/s. It would be cool to have the summoners standing on the walls of an arena while the eidolons are down in the middle duking it out.
One angle on the Kingmaker style would be to send the party off to establish a fortress in the path of the expanding blight. Then when the characters are high enough level they can fight the blight itself as it expands into their territory.
| Ævux |
Personally I think a preservation alchemist is a slight better "pokemon" than the summoner is. They actually have something they throw.
Do the Telvani have a favored class bonus for summoner?
For me, I'd go Brood master/evolutionist. My summoner summons up small demons to do his bidding. and is at times considered to be a demon himself.
I'm voting KM/Horror. Mostly because I've been on an Mansions of Madness kick.
Something along the lines of monsters are coming and we need to build a place for the survivors while battling out these creatures of darkness.
| TarkXT |
Ok so while I got a bit of time let's discuss traits. and a bit more history.
Last time I talked about Kaiju and Kaiju masters. Essentially this is an older discipline where in Telvani control and bond with mosnters that already exist. Eidolon summoning and Demon binding are newer quicker means by which the Telvani have learned to defend themselves. Eidolon summoning in particular has grown quite popular as it requires practically nothing in terms of pre existing bodies. Telvani form creatures as summoners purely from their imagination creating and putting facets of their personality into each creature. While summon spells themselves have specific templates to apply the Eidolons themselves tend to be much more freeform with greater variety. Below are some options in terms of traits to help summoners differentiate themselves from one another.
School of the Starry Night: Proponents of the Starry Night school believe that the Telvani are defined by the use of magi. As such they have taken that definition of themselves and imprinted it upon their eidolons making them spellcasters almost on par with their creators. The characters Eidolon has a -2 penalty to strength but a +2 bonus to charisma. If the Eidolon takes the evolutions that gives them spell like ability's there spell list is expanded (will go over the expansions if someoen actually takes this trait. Will be quite extensive.)
School of the Tamed Flame: This school draws out the natural fury and hidden anger of the Telvani creating a creature that is both terrible and deadly. The school of the tamed flame boasts the highest number of adherents. The summoners eidolon's BAB matches the summoners character level.
School of the New Moon: A rather secretive school the New Moon believes that unconventional warfare is what it will take to defeat the demons adn retake the planet. Eidolon's from this school tend to fill the role of scout, assassin, or take on other skills that are otehrwise lien to the Telvani. Eidolon's from this character have a -2 penalty to strength but a +2 bonus to dexterity. They also recieve an additional skill point per summoner level.
School of the Inner Fury: Adherents of this school are all syntheists. Rather than separate their inner fury from themselves proponents of this school propose becoming one with that fury, one with that aggression. They fuse themselves with these aspects of their personality making themselves formidable warrior even with their typically pacifistic nature. Summoners of this school have a good fortitude save rather than a good will and only suffer a -1 penalty to attack rolls from their Pacifist racial trait rather than a -2.
Telvani Warrior Unlike most Telvani you grew up with a life of violence witnessing first hand what others, when driven hard enough, can do to one another. As such you have come to value the necessity of defending yourself, violently if necessary, most Telvani see you with some fear and other's hatred but you stand by your ways. You lose the Pacifist racial trait and gain proficiency in a single martial or exotic weapon of your choice.
Telvani Sorcerer: You began your career as a magewright, ready to live an honest life casting spells and building magical devices for the benefit of your kind. However an event shook you into realizing the need for warriors and thus you decided to become a summoner. You are still quite a good spellcaster and feel much more comfortable with ti than directing an Eidolon or Kaiju and as a result its power suffers. You recieve an extra spell known per level of any spell level you can cast and an extra spell slot at the highest level you can cast per level. However your eidolon only gets 1/2 it's normal evolution points. This trait cannot be taken by Kaiju masters and Demon binders. Also if this trait is taken by a summoner that reduces the Eidolons evolutions by half than the eidolons evolution points are reduced to 1/3 their normal amount.
Also plan on two archetypes.
Kaiju Master: replaces eidolon with animal companion type stuff. think templated magical beasts isntead of animal companions though.
Demonbinder: Get to dominate demons(in this setting that includes aberrations, evil outsiders, adn certain magical beasts and monstrous humanoids). And otherwise do fun things with them.
Will ahve to work on those last two.
One mroe thing about Telvani technology. No metal. They don't even ahve forging. Anything they need, they grow from a palnt or cut from a gemstone. They're also vegetarin but this doesn't mean they don't eat eggs or milk. They just don't eat cooked flesh. They feel a living animal that can constantly produce food is more valuable than a dead one that cna only produce food once. So its a cultural thing. Little tidbits like that. Going to work on those archetypes now.
| TarkXT |
There seems to be a consensus on a Kingmaker like game.
Alrighty then. For now here's soem Character creation rules.
~20 pt buy.
~Telvani and Summoner's only
~ APG, Core, and UM allowed.
~ Two Traits One campaign trait and oen other noncampaign adn non Golarion specific trait.
~Equipment: I ask that you hold off on equipment purchases for now as there are going to be some changes. The world of the Telvani is very different from Golaria and some things exist or are different in such a way as the equipment list provided is a poor presentation.
~Favored Class: Telvani can choose any of the favored class bonuses available to any race for the summoner in the APG. Or they can take the normal favored class bonuses.
If you are interested in being a Demon Binder or Kaiju MAster (i.e. Someone who binds demons or control Kaiju (magically engineered warbeasts that are not eidolons) let me know so I can work on those Archetypes for you.
| W Canepa |
I'm interested in the concept, but have a few questions/concerns/suggestions.
Being master summoners, with a lot of variety, have you considered expanding the summoner spell list to include other conjuration spells (even healing and teleportation, for greater survivability)?
The racial -2 penalty on attack rolls... Is that all attack rolls, or just weapon attack rolls? I understand you are trying to keep the caster out of combat, and make the eidolon/summoned creatures do the work, but there may be less player-penalizing ways to do this. (For example, drop the medium BAB and increase the spellcasting [or have that as an option?], or at the very least increase the power of the eidolon a bit.) As they are, the Telvani are a bit behind the player race curve, especially with little-to-no-healing, penalized ranged attacks (-2; and few options for ranged attacks), poor melee survivability for the PCs (no metal armor/weapons, -3 melee, etc.), and a game based on one class.
Which brings me to why I'm here. I really love the concept (and challenging build concepts) of an all-summoner game, and I like your setting. Some friends and I ran a 5-game adventure with all summoners a few months back (though, not just the summoner class, we also had conjurers, sorcerers, druids, and clerics available, with some modifications).
As for world flavor, have you considered druid as a playable class? You could re-theme Wild Shape as a method of bonding with summoned creatures. They already have a link to the natural world, no metal armor, spontaneous summoning, nature magic, etc. You could easily swap a few of their abilities for conjurer wizard, summoner, etc. abilities (or favored enemy (demon)). I am sorry for the questioning, it just seems that with a culture like theirs, and master of magic, and hundreds of years to dabble and perfect, that they'd be a little more competent at demon-fighting and summoning than the summoner class as-written.
Summoner Archetypes, for consideration, if nothing else:
Planet Healer (nature magic and conjuration (healing) spells added to list)
Channeler (Wild Shape class feature, maybe some transmuter stuff)
Conjurer (Low BAB, Full casting, altered/expanded spell list--maybe a witch's familiar to store spells, to make their spells more fragile and play off the no-tech world)
Demon Hunter (Treat level as 2-3 lower for eidolon or summon monster class feature; gain good Fort save, ranger's favored enemy (only for demons), proficiency with bows, nets, bolas, and other primitive ranged weapons (maybe ranger traps too?), negate -2 attack roll, etc.)
| W Canepa |
One mroe thing about Telvani technology. No metal. They don't even ahve forging. Anything they need, they grow from a palnt or cut from a gemstone. They're also vegetarin but this doesn't mean they don't eat eggs or milk. They just don't eat cooked flesh. They feel a living animal that can constantly produce food is more valuable than a dead one that cna only produce food once. So its a cultural thing. Little tidbits like that. Going to work on those archetypes now.
This explains why their city is overcrowded. :) Agriculture = population increase. I had the initial impression that they were stationary hunter-gatherers, like some tribal peoples (or, the Na'vi, in this case). However, if they cultivate food, they create a food surplus, which fuels population growth, so they increase food production to meet the population growth, so they have another food surplus, so their population increases again, ad infinitum until they run out of room or run into resistance (demons?).
I'm surprised they didn't destroy/blight the world on their own in 10,000 years without the demons (like we have on earth since the agricultural revolution...). ;)
Still, I like the setting. I also vote Wilderness/Kingmaker, with elements of the others. I'm also interested in your demonbinder archetype (I like enchanters...).
| TarkXT |
I'm interested in the concept, but have a few questions/concerns/suggestions.
Being master summoners, with a lot of variety, have you considered expanding the summoner spell list to include other conjuration spells (even healing and teleportation, for greater survivability)?
Survivability? Why on earth would I want that? Kind of murders the whole bleakness and hopelessness of the setting. I am allowing Synthesists to let the restore eidolon spells heal their counterpart as I always thought that was an oversight on the writers part anyway.
The racial -2 penalty on attack rolls... Is that all attack rolls, or just weapon attack rolls? I understand you are trying to keep the caster out of combat, and make the eidolon/summoned creatures do the work, but there may be less player-penalizing ways to do this. (For example, drop the medium BAB and increase the spellcasting [or have that as an option?], or at the very least increase the power of the eidolon a bit.) As they are, the Telvani are a bit behind the player race curve, especially with little-to-no-healing, penalized ranged attacks (-2; and few options for ranged attacks), poor melee survivability for the PCs (no metal armor/weapons, -3 melee, etc.), and a game based on one class.
All attack rolls for the character. Keep in mind there's a trait that erases this penalty. It's a racial mindset that applies to everybody, from commoners, to magewrights to the law enforcers.
Which brings me to why I'm here. I really love the concept (and challenging build concepts) of an all-summoner game, and I like your setting. Some friends and I ran a 5-game adventure with all summoners a few months back (though, not just the summoner class, we also had conjurers, sorcerers, druids, and clerics available, with some modifications).
As for world flavor, have you considered druid as a playable class? You could re-theme Wild Shape as a method of bonding with summoned creatures. They already have a link to the natural world, no metal armor, spontaneous summoning, nature magic, etc. You could easily swap a few of their abilities for conjurer wizard, summoner, etc. abilities (or favored enemy (demon)). I am sorry for the questioning, it just seems that with a culture like theirs, and master of magic, and hundreds of years to dabble and perfect, that they'd be a little more competent at demon-fighting and summoning than the summoner class as-written.
There might have been druids at some point, but as you can imagine they would be the best equipped to defend themselves against the demons adn thus the first to get ripped to pieces, mutated, and then sent back against them.
Also it's a lot to ask of a race who has never fought a war, researched an offensive spell, and otherwise had very very few weapons among them to turn itself entirely around in a couple of centuries. Heck, even their solution to their problem involves using magic to summon soldiers from buried bits of their brain that are about fighting.
That being said weapons have been developed (Personal Scorching Ray cannons for example)and the Kaiju still roam the wilds and are being bred. Eventually they'll get to the point where you can ahve thins like
Summoner Archetypes, for consideration, if nothing else:
Planet...
I'll think on it. It's already a ton of work to my already stretched time considering people are wanting a Kingmaker like game. Again the traits listed above do quite a bit to expand the Summoners capabilities and are archetypes in and of themselves.
And I still have two archetypes to write anyway.
| W Canepa |
(response)
Awesomeness. I just like playing devil's advocate, and tossing around ideas.
I have an idea in mind for a younger character that never knew the world "as it was," and wants to travel to make the world a better place and bring back a bit of the world of those stories (I'm assuming Telvani live a long time, like elves).
If it's okay with you, could I apply the Young Creature template from the Bestiary (since it's a -1 CR, I'd be more than happy to accept a bonus feat, level, or the like, of course; up to you).?
I'm thinking a master summoner, with the Telvani Warrior and Birthmark traits. (Too bad there's no traits to increase the eidolon's evolution pool...)
What level do we start at? Are bows available, since it's primitive tech?
| TarkXT |
TarkXT wrote:(response)Awesomeness. I just like playing devil's advocate, and tossing around ideas.
I have an idea in mind for a younger character that never knew the world "as it was," and wants to travel to make the world a better place and bring back a bit of the world of those stories (I'm assuming Telvani live a long time, like elves).
If it's okay with you, could I apply the Young Creature template from the Bestiary (since it's a -1 CR, I'd be more than happy to accept a bonus feat, level, or the like, of course; up to you).?
I'm thinking a master summoner, with the Telvani Warrior and Birthmark traits. (Too bad there's no traits to increase the eidolon's evolution pool...)
What level do we start at? Are bows available, since it's primitive tech?
Going to say noooo. They wouldn't send children into the wilderness and if they did they would be exceptional anyway. The concept works fine otherwise.
Bows exist, as do scrossbows. But some who can afford them favor Casters. Like I said hold off on equipment if you can stand to wait since there will be quite a few differences.
| W Canepa |
Ok, no problem. Still keeping Telvani Warrior to avoid craptastic spell attack rolls. Young Creature would've granted another +2 Dex, +1 to hit, +1 AC, at the expense of -2 Con & -2 Wis based on how I would've generated the abilities with an adult.
So, instead of Str 8, Dex 18, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 18, melee +0, ranged +5, unarmored AC 14, CMD 13, F/R/W: 0/4/1, +8 Stealth, + 8 Ride, +11 Use Magic Device, he's at:
Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 18, melee -1, ranged +3, unarmored AC 13, CMD 12, F/R/W: 1/3/2, +3 Stealth, + 7 Ride, +11 Use Magic Device.
I'll stick with vanilla summoner, then, as this is a character that will die soon and can use the eidolon to buy time when he runs away...
| Grulo Barkmangle |
Nitpick away: Spell focus conjuration is a prereq for augment summoning savru. Just noticed it flipping through your sheet
Thank you kindly. Fixed.
Also, character icon is a placeholder. Not sure how "tribal" the Telvani are, or whether their warriors would have facial tattoos/warpaint.
| Saint Caleth |
I think I am going to play an evolutionsit with the School of Starry Night trait pending a further description. I am probably also going to take the half-elf favored class bonus for extra evolutions.
I've never built a summoner before, so I am going to work on the crunch tomorrow when I can think straight.
| TarkXT |
Kaiju Master.
An art older than the now popular Eidolon summoning Kaiju masters rely on a closer bond to the natural world and to the control of warbeasts called Kaiju that were created by the Telvani in order to battle the demons.
A Kaiju Master does not gain the Summon Eidolon or any of the Evolution Surge spells.
Kaiju Bond: At 1st level a Kaiju Master gains the service of a Kaiju. This ability function like the Animal Companion ability of the druid It uses the with the following exceptions. It uses the Summoner’s class level rather than the druids to determine it’s abilities. It also may begin play with either the celestial or fiendish templates.
Any references made by the Summoner’s spells or abilities that normally affects the summoner’s Eidolon affects the Summoner’s Kaiju instead.
At 5th level the Kaiju master may add either the Giant or Advanced simple templates to his Kaiju.
At 10th level the Kaiju master may replace the fiendish template for the half fiend template or the celestial template for the half celestial template as appropriate.
At 15th level the Kaiju Master gains 10 evolution points she may spend to add evolutions to the Kaiju as if it were an Eidolon. These evolutions may be changed as normal whenever the Kaiju master gains a level.
This ability replaces the summoner’s Eidolon and Merge Form abilities.
Summon Nature’s Ally: This ability functions like the summoner’s Summon Monster ability with the exception that the summoner uses Summon Nature’s Ally spells instead. This ability replaces the Summoner’s Summon Monster Ability.
Kaiju Frenzy: Beginning at 2nd level whenever the KAiju is the target of a spell cast by the Kaiju master the Kaiju gains a +1 morale bonus on Attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws and skill checks for one round. This bonus increases by +1 every four levels afterward to a maximum of +5 at 16th.
At 10th level whenever the Kaiju is the target of a spell cast by the KAiju master it may make an extra attack at its highest base attack bonus with any of its natural attacks as if under the effects of a Haste spell. This does not stack with any affects that grants it any extra attacks.
At 18th level The Kaiju master can also use the Transpoition or Maker’s Call abilities as a free action whenever the Kaiju is the target of spell cast by the Kaiju Summoner.
Spell List: The following spells replace the ones lost by the summoner.
Summon Eidolon –Wood Shape
Lesser Evolution Surge – Lock Jaw
Evolution Surge - Ape Walk
Greater Evolution Surge – Grove of Respite
Feel free to ask questions if you need clarification.
Will have the expanded spell list stuff tonight for the Starry Night School.
| TarkXT |
TarkXT wrote:Kaiju MasterOh. I need to rebuild my character. This makes surviving much more plausible.
Eh, but also harder. The creature is tougher and meaner, but it won't be as good or as versatile as a well built eidolon. You won't get a bajillion some odd natural attacks. there's a lot of trade offs for what will essentially be a more colorful animal companion. It also doesn't get to simply pop back the next day should the Kaiju die. The Kaiju is a ntural creature whereas the Eidolon is a product fo your personality. When the Kaiju dies, it's dead. So you have to go through the whole druid ordeal of getting a new one.
| Caelash Suul |
Savru Sa'et wrote:Eh, but also harder. The creature is tougher and meaner, but it won't be as good or as versatile as a well built eidolon. You won't get a bajillion some odd natural attacks. there's a lot of trade offs for what will essentially be a more colorful animal companion. It also doesn't get to simply pop back the next day should the Kaiju die. The Kaiju is a ntural creature whereas the Eidolon is a product fo your personality. When the Kaiju dies, it's dead. So you have to go through the whole druid ordeal of getting a new one.TarkXT wrote:Kaiju MasterOh. I need to rebuild my character. This makes surviving much more plausible.
A 24 hr free ritual?
| TarkXT |
Man those first three traits all sound very tempting for my broodmaster, but truthfully i wish I could apply it to one of my brood and apply a different one to a different brood.
Out of curiosity, what is the Demon Binder?
Think the malconvoker from 3.5. You basically dominate and control demons to fight against their own kind. It is as risky as it sounds.
| TarkXT |
General warning to all my games.
I will be out of touch for a week as I will be going to a place with no internet connection. This is a drive I do not wnat to make, with people I don't like, to stay with them for a week in a place I dont want to go for a time I cannot financially afford. If you do not hear from me in a week check the news for a mass murder. That is all.