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I like the magus class a lot and will be playing one in the next campaign. However, when I went to make the character, I noticed a possible oversight for the class. In the description of the magus it describes a class that searches for knowledge all over and in libraries and any other place he can find it. I'm thinking OK, sounds like a wizard in that regard. Then you look at the limited class skill list and I'm left scratching my head.
Climb - Ok no sweat
Craft - standard, cool
Fly - another standard for arcane spellcasting classes
Intimidate - good skill here
Profession - standard, cool
Ride - good stuff
Spellcraft - to be expected
Swim - not bad
Use Magic Device - I probably would not have included this one but whatever, perhaps Acrobatics in its place.
So far so good...
Then we get to the Knowledge skills...
Knowledge (Arcana)
Knowledge (Dungeoneering)
Knowledge (Planes)
That's it...
Don't you think as a seeker of knowledge a magus would dedicate time to learning history (particularly military history), study maps (pertaining to military campaigns), and be keen to the heraldry and standards of friends and foes alike (knowledge: nobility)? What about some engineering skill to build earthworks and other defenses for unit?
It seems to me that the magus should have as much access to knowledge skills as any wizard. After all, they are just as dedicated to academia as any wizard would be, with the added boon of mastering warcraft as well.
In my campaigns all knowledge skills are class skills for the magus, it only seems right to me.
What do you guys think?
I like the magus class a lot and will be playing one in the next campaign. However, when I went to make the character, I noticed a possible oversight for the class. In the description of the magus it describes a class that searches for knowledge all over and in libraries and any other place he can find it. I'm thinking OK, sounds like a wizard in that regard. Then you look at the limited class skill list and I'm left scratching my head.
Climb - Ok no sweat
Craft - standard, cool
Fly - another standard for arcane spellcasting classes
Intimidate - good skill here
Profession - standard, cool
Ride - good stuff
Spellcraft - to be expected
Swim - not bad
Use Magic Device - I probably would not have included this one but whatever, perhaps Acrobatics in its place.So far so good...
Then we get to the Knowledge skills...
Knowledge (Arcana)
Knowledge (Dungeoneering)
Knowledge (Planes)That's it...
Don't you think as a seeker of knowledge a magus would dedicate time to learning history (particularly military history), study maps (pertaining to military campaigns), and be keen to the heraldry and standards of friends and foes alike (knowledge: nobility)? What about some engineering skill to build earthworks and other defenses for unit?
It seems to me that the magus should have as much access to knowledge skills as any wizard. After all, they are just as dedicated to academia as any wizard would be, with the added boon of mastering warcraft as well.
In my campaigns all knowledge skills are class skills for the magus, it only seems right to me.
What do you guys think?
I would shy away from that. Magi are not your reclusive wizards. They study what they need to kill and survive. They don't study day and night. They might be specialists, in which case they probably took Skill Focus in one of the knowledges. In any case, I don't beleive they should've gotten all knowledges.
+1 to Matt Stich
The Magus is not a straight-A student that also happens to captain the football team. He's a specialist in fighting and using magic to facilitate his fighting skills. He's not a general, or warlord, or warcrafter. The knowledge skills he does get pertain directly to his spell-research (possibly with the exception of dungeoneering, which I would consider striking from the list).
You're of course welcome to your house rules, but from my perspective the Magus has it good already, extras he can get from his traits (that's what they're there for) - or possibly a level in wizard/oracle(lore)/bard.
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+1 to Matt Stich
The Magus is not a straight-A student that also happens to captain the football team. He's a specialist in fighting and using magic to facilitate his fighting skills. He's not a general, or warlord, or warcrafter. The knowledge skills he does get pertain directly to his spell-research (possibly with the exception of dungeoneering, which I would consider striking from the list).
You're of course welcome to your house rules, but from my perspective the Magus has it good already, extras he can get from his traits (that's what they're there for) - or possibly a level in wizard/oracle(lore)/bard.
Respectfully, I disagree with your assessment.
Why wouldn't he be a straight-A student? Why wouldn't he be a general, warlord, or engineer? He is an intelligence based arcane caster same as a wizard, he just divides his study time between warcraft and spellcraft. He isn't a magic specialist. He isn't a pure fighter. He is a hybrid of the two; highly intelligent to boot. Given this, you could still find time to study any subject you want as part of your training, especially if such skills synergize with how the magus is described in the class entry.
Besides with limited skill points to spend, it's not like he will have lots of knowledge skills anyway, just more diverse in those he selects. At the very least Knowledge: History should be on the list...
Respectfully, I disagree with your assessment.Why wouldn't he be a straight-A student? Why wouldn't he be a general, warlord, or engineer? He is an intelligence based arcane caster same as a wizard, he just divides his study time between warcraft and spellcraft. He isn't a magic specialist. He isn't a pure fighter. He is a hybrid of the two; highly intelligent to boot. Given this, you could still find time to study any subject you want as part of your training, especially if such skills synergize with how the magus is described in the class entry.
Besides with limited skill points to spend, it's not like he will have lots of knowledge skills anyway, just more diverse in those he selects. At the very least Knowledge: History should be on the list...
Respectfully, your reasoning supports my argument. He's a hybrid so he can't devote his time to studying the same way a wizard does, nor he can he devote his time to swordplay like a fighter. Show me a legit Magus with both strength as high as an optimized fighter and intelligence as high a a focused wizard. It doesn't happen often. Usually, they become eldritch knights, not magi.
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Respectfully, your reasoning supports my argument. He's a hybrid so he can't devote his time to studying the same way a wizard does, nor he can he devote his time to swordplay like a fighter. Show me a legit Magus with both strength as high as an optimized fighter and intelligence as high a a focused wizard. It doesn't happen often. Usually, they become eldritch knights, not magi.
Who said anything about optimized? By your logic, a wizard would be too focused on his magic to ever learn anything else...
I assure you it is possible to learn many different things while studying and training for war.
I assure you it is possible to learn many different things while studying and training for war.
And the magus can put skill ranks into non-class skills. Having tons of knowledge skills as class skills is a specific class feature of the bard and wizard... I'm actually more upset that the summoner gets them all than that the magus only gets three! :P
I don't consider the magus to be a multiclass of a wizard and a fighter. On the contrary, the Magus is one of the most single minded classes in the game. He is focused on a single thing. Mastery of his martial prowess by any means necessary, and he has found that arcane forces are the best path towards that pinnacle of death-dealing. The three knowledge skills he is granted as class skills perfectly align with that goal.
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I don't consider the magus to be a multiclass of a wizard and a fighter. On the contrary, the Magus is one of the most single minded classes in the game. He is focused on a single thing. Mastery of his martial prowess by any means necessary, and he has found that arcane forces are the best path towards that pinnacle of death-dealing. The three knowledge skills he is granted as class skills perfectly align with that goal.
.... My kensai regards himself as a wizard. He just happens to be good with the scimitar.
I don't consider the magus to be a multiclass of a wizard and a fighter. On the contrary, the Magus is one of the most single minded classes in the game. He is focused on a single thing. Mastery of his martial prowess by any means necessary, and he has found that arcane forces are the best path towards that pinnacle of death-dealing. The three knowledge skills he is granted as class skills perfectly align with that goal..... My kensai regards himself as a wizard. He just happens to be good with the scimitar.
Then why aren't all wizards able to swing a scimitar as well? The magus has to give up something to account for the martial training. You, of course, are able to still purchase points in the other knowledge skills, but you shouldn't be considered pre-trained in them (which is essentially what the class skill designation implies)
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Then why aren't all wizards able to swing a scimitar as well? The magus has to give up something to account for the martial training. You, of course, are able to still purchase points in the other knowledge skills, but you shouldn't be considered pre-trained in them (which is essentially what the class skill designation implies)I don't consider the magus to be a multiclass of a wizard and a fighter. On the contrary, the Magus is one of the most single minded classes in the game. He is focused on a single thing. Mastery of his martial prowess by any means necessary, and he has found that arcane forces are the best path towards that pinnacle of death-dealing. The three knowledge skills he is granted as class skills perfectly align with that goal..... My kensai regards himself as a wizard. He just happens to be good with the scimitar.
The argument is point-of-view vs. mechanics.
Mechanically, I don't start with the full list of knowledge skill as class skills. This has no impact on my characters ability to regard himself as a wizard first and a swordsman second. (It would also be damned difficult to prove, in character, that my 7th level kensai is not a 5th level wizard.)
I think the magus's spell list is fine and does not impede character concepts. Even my burly Giant bastard sword-wielding magus considers himself a wizard. It makes sense why the magus would be trained in his knowledges as all of them are directly related to his path: magical lore, fighting dungeon monsters, and learning about elemental forces.
If a magus is the type of martial student that studies all aspects of war, he can take a level in fighter (lore warden). It fits perfectly and it's a good 2nd level dip if he wishes to take Dervish Dance early.
The Magus skill list is very balanced and has 3 great knowledge skills on their list in addition to Spellcraft and UMD, which also help add to that mystical scholarly feel.
If you need more for a character concept, look towards traits, or just throw some ranks in there. With your likely intelligence mod, any knowledge ranks will be well served, even if not class skills.