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So here's the deal. I have a Paladin/Cavalier in a game. In his feat list we find Vital Strike and Spirited Charge (plus other non-related stuff). He's ALWAYS on his horse, or tries to at least. His main Weapon is a +1 Flaming Lance. So here is where my problems arise. First I must mention my DMs accept that Vital Strike can be used in Any one attack action that happens in a round( wether the first attack of a full attack or during a charge). Second, I like to charge while wielding my lance on my horse. So what are my damage dices?
I First thought it was 3d8+1d8(VS)+1d6 fire
My DM think its (1d8+1d8(VS))*3+1d6 Fire
Another DM thinks its 1d8*3+3d8(VS)+1d6 Fire
And Finally another DM thinks its (1d8+1d8(VS))*6+1d6 Fire
I really need to get this clear out before next game session or I think people are going to argue more about the rule than play game.
Any Help?
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If your DM is allowing you to use Vital Strike on a charge, your damage would be
3d8 (the lance damage) + 1d8 (vital strike) + 1d6 Fire Damage + (Your additional damage due to strength, power attack, the +1 of the lance, etc)*3
So you were correct the first time. Pretty much nothing multiplies vital strike damage.
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If your DM is allowing you to use Vital Strike on a charge, your damage would be
3d8 (the lance damage) + 1d8 (vital strike) + 1d6 Fire Damage + (Your additional damage due to strength, power attack, the +1 of the lance, etc)*3
So you were correct the first time. Pretty much nothing multiplies vital strike damage.
You see our great enemy is Vital Strike. Because it does say to "Roll the damage dices for the attack twice and add the results together" which I'm now thinking that it englobes the whole attack(excluding fire damage and multipliers of course) since without Vital Strike I would deal 3d8 normally.
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If your DM is allowing you to use Vital Strike on a charge, your damage would beMost won't allow it since, they are not allowed by the rules.
And thank you for contributing.
Anyway to the OP:
Morgen is right, those are your damage dice.
I can understand why you have a problem and let me tell you why this is happening:
because the vital strike doesn't normally work in a charge so there is no way to interact with feats like spirited charge and thus there is no problem.
Now since your group decided to house rule vital strike to work the way you want it to you also have to house rule how vital strike interacts with feats like spirited charge.
Well even without spirited charge the simple fact of being on horseback with a Lance doubles the damage. The charge is just a step further(It's triple instead of double).
Yes but still you have to charge in order to get the double damage.
So the only solution to your problem is to house rule how vital strike+ lance + charge works.
I First thought it was 3d8+1d8(VS)+1d6 fire
My DM think its (1d8+1d8(VS))*3+1d6 Fire
Another DM thinks its 1d8*3+3d8(VS)+1d6 Fire
And Finally another DM thinks its (1d8+1d8(VS))*6+1d6 Fire
I don't see any difference between option 2 and option 3.
Where does the *6 (on option 4) comes from?
If your DM is allowing you to use Vital Strike on a charge, your damage would beMost won't allow it since, they are not allowed by the rules.And thank you for contributing.
The problem is now you are asking a rule to cover an situation that it wasn't designed to cover. So, if you start to house rule one aspect you better be prepared to house rule other things as well. But lets see if we can shoehorn this to fit anyway.
Spirited charge with a lance deals triple damage, i.e. roll 3 * ( 1d8 + bonuses). A flaming lance would add 1d6 fire damage, i.e. roll 3 * ( 1d8 + bonuses ) + 1d6.
Vital strike essentially grants a doubling of the weapon damage dice without doubling the bonuses. So, you end up with:
roll 3 * ( 1d8 + bonuses ) + 1d8 + 1d6 fire
Vital strike specifically call it "extra weapon damage dice." The general rules for multiplying have an exception: "Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage are never multiplied." So, just like the flaming weapon property this extra damage dice isn't multiplied on a spirited charge.
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I don't see any difference between option 2 and option 3.
Where does the *6 (on option 4) comes from?
The difference was the interpretation of how the abilities would work together. One being that you add vital strike before multiplying and the second one being that you multiply first then add the mutliplied value as Vital strike damage.
As for the 6 on option 3 I guess because he thought you had to double first then because the feat mentionnned triple you'd had to triple again afterwards(in other word read multiply by 6)(and yes I already know its that calculation to be false)
The difference was the interpretation of how the abilities would work together. One being that you add vital strike before multiplying and the second one being that you multiply first then add the mutliplied value as Vital strike damage.
I don't see any difference between option 2 and option 3.
Where does the *6 (on option 4) comes from?
But it gets you the same result!!!!
As for the 6 on option 3 I guess because he thought you had to double first then because the feat mentionnned triple you'd had to triple again afterwards(in other word read multiply by 6)(and yes I already know its that calculation to be false)
Double what? i still don't get the logic behind that.
Double what? i still don't get the logic behind that.
As for the 6 on option 3 I guess because he thought you had to double first then because the feat mentionnned triple you'd had to triple again afterwards(in other word read multiply by 6)(and yes I already know its that calculation to be false)
I believe it is a misreading of the lance and spirited charge rules. Lance says that you deal double damage with it when charging on horseback. Spirited charge says that you deal double damage with any weapon when charging on horseback, or triple damage with a lance.
My guess would be that this person did not realize that the spirited charge ability REPLACES the lance ability rather than AMPLIFYING it. That is, he thought that lance deals double, THEN spirited charge adds another triple on top of that for a total of X6.
Random side tangent, don't multipliers work differently in Pathfinder than they do in regular math? That is, two X2 multipliers stack to a X3, not a X4, correct? And a X2 and X3 stack to a X4, not a X6? Or I could be totally making this up.
EDIT: Which is why Sprited Charge lance deals X3:
X2 (lance) + X2 (Spirited Charge) = X3
If your DM is allowing you to use Vital Strike on a charge, your damage would be: 3d8 (the lance damage) + 1d8 (vital strike) + 1d6 Fire Damage + (Your additional damage due to strength, power attack, the +1 of the lance, etc)*3.
Morgen is correct. Remember Vital Strike says:
Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon’s damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.
All Vital Strike does is give you your weapon damage die once more for the attack. The weapon damage die for your lance is a D8. That is all the extra you get from Vital Strike on any attack your GM will allow it on.
The *6 option cannot be correct since multipliers don't compound. Two doublings, for example, equal tripling instead of quadrupling.