1: The GM is always Right
2: The GM will accept arguments outside of the session.
3: The GM is only swayed? by Rules as Written or a VERY good argument.
Setup A:
LongBow & Spiked Gauntlet
Do I Threaten the 5' around me? I would say yes, as "Drawing ammunition for use with a ranged weapon (such as arrows, bolts, sling bullets, or shuriken) is a free action.", so the hand is free to attack.
Setup B:
Long Spear & Spiked Gauntlet
Do I Threaten the 5' around me? I would say no, as I cannot find the ruling that it is a free action to switch items between hands and the rules governing the use of the
Setup C:
Long Spear & Spiked Armour
Do I Threaten the 5'& 10' around me? I would say no, but lots here say yes. I am now questioning myself, given that I would allow the Longbow/Spiked Gauntlet setup to threaten. On refection I would say that you threaten either 5' or 10', but not both.
Setup D:
Long Spear & Spiked Armour & Two-Weapon Fighting
Do I Threaten the 5'& 10' around me? I would now say yes, given the effot (as desribed by the penaties to hit) in splitting your focus bewteen 2 weapons.
So if people can find me rules to back up the statements on Threatened areas while using a weapon that takes 2 hands to wield for the normal attacks, I would be most grateful.
My opinion:
A: Yes. The hand is free.
B: No. Unless you ended your turn only holding the spear, in which case you can threaten 5' but not 10'.
C&D: Two-weapon fighting has no effect on threatening (IE, attacks of opportunity). I would also say no. Armor spikes can be used in place of an off-hand attack, but not if the off-hand was being used already for an attack. So same as B, you can't threaten if you've got both your hands on the spear.
Armor Spikes: You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see “spiked armor” on Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a –4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can't also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.) An enhancement bonus to a suit of armor does not improve the spikes' effectiveness, but the spikes can be made into magic weapons in their own right.
That's all the RAW you are going to get. It really will come down to an individual GM's call.
A Spiked Gauntlet would not threaten while "wielding" a two handed weapon. Why? The hand is otherwised engaged as you pointed out.
Armor spikes do not have this problem because are a weapon but do not occupy a "hand" and thus they are always free to attack. You can use them with a two handed weapon or a bow. They threaten as a normal weapon does.
That means you do threaten at 5' and 10' with armor spikes and a spear.
Two Weapon Fighting never factors into Attacks of Opportunity. You only strike with one weapon at your highest attack bonus. You would not take the penalties for TWF while making an AoO, as you are not employing Two Weapon Fighting (which is a full round action in which you take penalties to attack in exchange for another attack).
Well I just say 'no' to the gauntlet.
The attack isn't happening on your turn, so I don't think you have the option of 'swapping weapons'.
Mechanics of free actions and move actions aside, if you can threaten with a spiked gauntlet, then this means you can simply threaten with any simple unarmed attack.
Similarly we have issues with spiked armour at our table, they must be some awesome spikes to be stabbing someone with the full equivalence of a shortsword.
Mechanics of free actions and move actions aside, if you can threaten with a spiked gauntlet, then this means you can simply threaten with any simple unarmed attack.
You threaten when you are Armed. You are considered Armed with a Spiked Gauntlet, or Spiked Armor.
You can threaten with an unarmed attack but only if you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. Why? A normal unarmed is just that... unarmed. You don't threaten while unarmed..
You threaten when you are Armed. You are considered Armed with a Spiked Gauntlet, or Spiked Armor.
Once again, this is where the 'spiked' stupidity comes in.
Bare hands = Unarmed
Brass Knuckles = Unarmed
Big steel gauntlets = Unarmed
Put some small spikes on your gauntlets or armour and all of a sudden...!
Anyhow, I guess you could free action to take a hand off your bow/halberd, as long as you are prepared to pay a move action on your next term to re-ready them - unless you took the quickdraw feat.
Anyhow, I guess you could free action to take a hand off your bow/halberd, as long as you are prepared to pay a move action on your next term to re-ready them - unless you took the quickdraw feat.
Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.
You can't take a free action except on your turn, not when it's someone else's turn. So if you want to threaten with the reach weapon, you can't pull a hand off it to threaten with a gauntlet.
A bow, however, you can free action when done to leave your gauntlet hand free to attack with and threaten between your turns.
Stuff like this comes up all the time, and I remember it being said a few weeks - maybe months - ago that an unarmed strike does not necessarily have to be made with your fists or elbows. You have far more power, leverage, and reach with your legs, and kicking is as just as easy (or awkward, depending on how you choose to view it) as punching is.
That said, I don't think there is direct support for this via RAW, but having spiked greaves would allow you to threaten with them and maintain both hands on a weapon.
And to the depths with any blighter who cries "cheese!" It makes as much sense as anything other combat option abstracted by numbers in a game with dice.
I really need to find the thread where I read that originally. I think it was a developer that came up with it, even.
EDIT: So I've found a couple of threads, but not the one I remember reading. However, this thread makes the point. Apparently the unarmed strike entry in the PFRD specifically states that kicking and the like are acceptable options for "unarmed" attacks which can be used as off-hand attacks, so it's like TWF. You'll take big penalties to hit if you use both in the same full-attack, but just for purposes of threatening, it's gold.
C: You threaten 10' around you with the spear. You threaten 5' around you with the armor spikes. On your turn you could elect to attack with either, right?
You could make a normal attack with the longspear and/or an off-hand attack with the spikes, yes. It's not clear if you can make a normal (i.e. not off-hand) attack with armor spikes however, nor is it clear whether you have an attack penalty when making a single attack with your off hand.
C: You threaten 10' around you with the spear. You threaten 5' around you with the armor spikes. On your turn you could elect to attack with either, right?You could make a normal attack with the longspear and/or an off-hand attack with the spikes, yes. It's not clear if you can make a normal (i.e. not off-hand) attack with armor spikes however, nor is it clear whether you have an attack penalty when making a single attack with your off hand.
The off-hand portion of that spike refers to how you treat strength modifiers. If you only make an attack with the armor spikes, then it's at your normal BAB, but your strength modifier to damage is treated as an off-hand (0.5 strength mod).
The only time you get penalties for off-hand attacks is if you are Two-Weapon Fighting.
If I have a sword in my left hand, and a dagger in my right, and this round I attack with the sword, that is my primary weapon, and I do STR mod damage with it. If, between now and my next turn, I make an AoO with my dagger (it's silver, and a werewolf runs past), then that dagger is a primary weapon (it's not inherently an off-hand, and my AoO's are made at full BAB, as if I had not attacked). Next round, I can make a full-attack action with my dagger, and I do STR Mod damage with it.
This is another of those situations where the game uses the same term in multiple locations. Off-Hand for BAB adjustments when TWF, and Off-Hand for determining Str Mod bonuses to damage.
It's not clear if you can make a normal (i.e. not off-hand) attack with armor spikesYou can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case.I think its perfectly clear that you can make a regular melee attack with the spikes.. in fact that's the quote above.
It is perfectly clear; I just had a catastrophic reading failure. :-)
Thanks for everybodies input, now to sell it to the GM. (Might just go for taking Improved Unarmed Strike, as that feels less cheesy than armour spikes)
I removed a post. Please feel free to repost your input without the insults.
Thanks for everybodies input, now to sell it to the GM. (Might just go for taking Improved Unarmed Strike, as that feels less cheesy than armour spikes)
I like armor spikes, but my play group bumped the damage down to 1d4 instead of 1d6. I'm not sure the spikes are intended to be the damage equivalent of a shortsword.
Thanks for everybodies input, now to sell it to the GM. (Might just go for taking Improved Unarmed Strike, as that feels less cheesy than armour spikes)I like armor spikes, but my play group bumped the damage down to 1d4 instead of 1d6. I'm not sure the spikes are intended to be the damage equivalent of a shortsword.
The short sword has a 19-20 threat range and it costs less than the armor spikes. Ok those two are somewhat small differences but the following one is somewhat larger. Armor spikes require you to wear an armor and some classes have problems with that.
Yes i can understand that those things are not big differences but i think that they are enough to warrant the 1d6.