I'm trying to run an all vamps campaign and my players are saying that they don't get the monster as PCs CR adjustment as they gain levels. Page 313-314 of the Bestiary 1 has monsters as PCs and it says that as they gain levels every 3rd level they should gain a level. I want to make sure they do or do not get that bonus level. I believe they do but as I said my players do not.
If your talking the vamp CR+2 template then yes there CR increases. however they don't gain racial hit die as a result as per the temaplate that says it altering racial hit die, but says nothing about gaining hit die.
however its important for you as a GM to not simply hand waive the +2CR as the groups effective power is going to be 2 levels above their class level which simply means you need to design encounters 2CR higher than normal for them.
As far as they are concerned their PC's level normally but they'll be facing tougher opponents as a result, assuming you actually want it to be moderately challenging for them.
Actually a much easier option for you as a GM would be to have them all make Dhampir race characters as they the vamp flavor without all the awesome abilities and require no adjustment they are inline with core races for power.
If your talking the vamp CR+2 template then yes there CR increases. however they don't gain racial hit die as a result as per the temaplate that says it altering racial hit die, but says nothing about gaining hit die.
however its important for you as a GM to not simply hand waive the +2CR as the groups effective power is going to be 2 levels above their class level which simply means you need to design encounters 2CR higher than normal for them.
As far as they are concerned their PC's level normally but they'll be facing tougher opponents as a result, assuming you actually want it to be moderately challenging for them.
Actually a much easier option for you as a GM would be to have them all make Dhampir race characters as they the vamp flavor without all the awesome abilities and require no adjustment they are inline with core races for power.
I was talking more about the decrease in adjusted CR that is described in the Bestiary 1 on page 313-314 about monsters as PCs
Yes the CR decreases by 1 after "the party" achieves its third level.
The only thing you should think about is what is considered to be "the party".
If the subjects constituting "the party" are turned against each other or perhaps do not level up at the same time what do you do?
My personal answer to that is that they level up as if they were a "one man party".
So for every 3 levels anyone gains he gets a free racial CR discount with the minimum of half his original.
I was talking more about the decrease in adjusted CR that is described in the Bestiary 1 on page 313-314 about monsters as PCsIf your talking the vamp CR+2 template then yes there CR increases. however they don't gain racial hit die as a result as per the temaplate that says it altering racial hit die, but says nothing about gaining hit die.
however its important for you as a GM to not simply hand waive the +2CR as the groups effective power is going to be 2 levels above their class level which simply means you need to design encounters 2CR higher than normal for them.
As far as they are concerned their PC's level normally but they'll be facing tougher opponents as a result, assuming you actually want it to be moderately challenging for them.
Actually a much easier option for you as a GM would be to have them all make Dhampir race characters as they the vamp flavor without all the awesome abilities and require no adjustment they are inline with core races for power.
ya decreases by 1 at 3rd, leaving them at a permanent +1CR
mechanically has no effect on their characters if your encounters are suitably scaled.
unless you want to do it the other way and start them as 3rd level characters with only 1 class level.
Personally I think it's better especially in a group with identical CR adjustments to simply scale the encounters and let them level from 1st level like normal.
You need to take into account that those rules are made to balance party power leveling against eachother, if you are running an all vampire party that becomes entirely irrelevant and you should just level normally.
Just take the +2 CR into account as a guideline for experience advancement and encounter design.
As an aside the rules described in bestiary are extremely dirty rules, I dont really see any value in them myself as they are poorly thought out, the guidelines fail to take into account the increase in power a monster gets when you give it pc levels (increased treasure and ability scores) and aside from that monsters just arent balanced for use as PCs, giving unusual abilities to players that will build to 'abuse'
I'm trying to run an all vamps campaign and my players are saying that they don't get the monster as PCs CR adjustment as they gain levels. Page 313-314 of the Bestiary 1 has monsters as PCs and it says that as they gain levels every 3rd level they should gain a level. I want to make sure they do or do not get that bonus level. I believe they do but as I said my players do not.
If they are all Vampires, then there no PC difference in power levels, just toss a lot of +2 CR encounters at em.
I'd still say your best option is using Dhampir race instead of the +2CR template, far less chance of issues comming up as a result
I looked at the Dhamphir and I didn't like it...I've always been more drawn to the Alucard half vamp thing from the castlevania games.
If they are all Vampires, then there no PC difference in power levels, just toss a lot of +2 CR encounters at em.
But would a team of 4 vamps at level 15 lets say be the same as a group of 4 level 17 humans?
Wouldn't it be a little bit unfair to the vamps since even though they have no base race PCs in the party they are still +2 to the group of level 15 humans/elfs/what have you?
I mean I am under the presumption that the monster CRs are for a group of 4 PCs of the base races with class levels not for that of a group of four monsters as PCs.
If they are all Vampires, then there no PC difference in power levels, just toss a lot of +2 CR encounters at em.But would a team of 4 vamps at level 15 lets say be the same as a group of 4 level 17 humans?
Wouldn't it be a little bit unfair to the vamps since even though they have no base race PCs in the party they are still +2 to the group of level 15 humans/elfs/what have you?
I mean I am under the presumption that the monster CRs are for a group of 4 PCs of the base races with class levels not for that of a group of four monsters as PCs.
They still get the CR reduction of 1 at level 3
So in your example you should be throwing encounters for 4 level 16's at them, but don't forget to reduce the XP gain to that of an encounter for 4 level 15's otherwise they will level too quickly. Same deal with the loot.
As a side note
it would also not be unreasonable to attack their weakness if their enemies are intelligent and know they will be facing vampires
Yeah I've already got some of the Castelvania items planned. Like the holy cross crash and holy water crash....Hydrostorm is just too awesome to pass up :D
Treat
the monster’s CR as class levels when determining the
monster PC’s overall levels. For example, in a group of
6th-level characters, a minotaur (CR 4) would possess 2
levels of a core class, such as barbarian.
Your PCs don't gain or lose anything as they level, it happens on character creation. As soon as they choose classes, each of them becomes a level 10 character with 9 levels of Vampire and 1 level of Class X. They are multiclassed as soon as they choose a class.
Just treat them per their character level like any other multiclass character.