
ZordanB |

You recall any memorized spell which has been expended with a PoP. You lose memorized spells to spontaneously cast SG via PS. You should certainly be able to regain any of your already cast spells via the PoP, whether they were cast normally or converted to SG, then expended. At the very least, you should be able to use the PoP to re-memorize SG (if the house-ruled interpretation is that the memorized spell is converted to a memorized SG, which is then cast; that's incidentally not the case because it allows spontaneous casting using prepared spell slots, not conversion of memorized spells into other memorized spells).
Sorry, for my lazy description. It´s the last, what my GM allow.
He means, you can just recall spells you have casted with a PoP, not spells you have prepared.So I thought "great unlimited uses of SG but no other spells. So why did I learn Preferred Spell?"
Maybe I can speak with my GM again, with your reasons, maybe...
P.S. Yeah, I love my black blade. Not just for the gold I save. My GM sent it to my via an angel who told us about a prophesy. And he use the blade here an there to tell us, important details for the campaign which our group miss.

Bigtuna |

I don't know if you ask how many PoP the city had - but the campagin does seems to have a problem with city/town buy limits.
So this could be a case of now-or-never - so buy it! (My Oracle in that campaign found a +5 full plate - with the buy limit of the largest city in Ustalav being 13.800 - we brought it - even though it pretty much spen all our party resourses)
Unless the city just happen to have a huge amount of PoP that's also to 3/4 the price... I think the campaign only runs to about lvl 15 - to early for PoP (unless there's a discount)

Bigtuna |

On an other subject - I still haven't gotten all the way through the tread...
For the Str based Magus - who would like to wield a 2handed weapon instead og a 1handed weapon in two hands.
What option do he's have?
A alchimist or summorner dip could do the trick. - Any thing else?
I saw the feat pushing assult - and througt - great! If the magus don't plan to cast an offensive spell this turn he can PA - do a little less damage and avoid casting defensivly.
I guess he could always just take a 5 foot steep away from the foe... But well now he can push the guy away - 5 foor steep - and the fore don't get a full attacks against him.

james maissen |
And my GM wouldn´t allow to recall a spell with a pearl, which I sacrificed for an shocking grasp.
Is this as a house rule, or does he think somehow that this is RAW? If it's the former of course it will distort things (and upset clerics most of all who would have to memorize cure light wounds to be able to pearl them back). If it's the latter he is mistaken.
-James

ZordanB |

I believe he think its RAW. I´ll see him in a few days.
Good Point with the cleric.
And yes, the buy limits are really bad. But the GM love the rules in this regard. We couldn´t even sell our loot in the first town, because they hadn´t enough money and/or items to buy.
In compensation we get nice presents all the Time by NPC´s that aren´t designated in the campaign. Like this cool magical musket for our gunslinger.

MTCityHunter |

For the Str based Magus - who would like to wield a 2handed weapon instead og a 1handed weapon in two hands.
What option do he's have?
A alchimist or summorner dip could do the trick. - Any thing else?
The problem w/r/t RAW is that spell combat will always be incompatible with a 2H weapon because the class feature specifically limits its use to 1-handed or light melee weapons. Now, you could get cute and use your 3rd arm to meet the "hand free" requirement, but a 2H weapon would still be off-limits and you'd be limited to using a 1H weapon with 2 hands.
Still, with that 3rd arm from summoner or alchemist, you should be able to use spell combat while wielding a 1-handed weapon with 2 hands.
An even better (and less...ew) way to pull that off is with the Hexcrafter archetype and the prehensile hair hex. In that case, the hair is used to cast the spell since it "can manipulate objects (but not weapons) as dexterously as a human hand". That should certainly cover spell casting, even with M components.
Note though, that the ability is limited to 1 minute per level per day (not a particularly demanding limitation, but its there). Also, I could see some GMs not allowing the hair to count as a "free hand" for these purposes, and they may have a point. Its not, afterall, a hand, and the verbiage under spell combat is pretty specific.

WRoy |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

I posted this for someone else's thread but figured I'd link it here as a placeholder. It's just a rough draft right now but could be useful:
Suboptimizing the Suboptimal: A (sub)Guide to the Myrmidarch
It's kind of a mess. There's plenty of editing and changes that it needs, but between real life and freelance projects it's not going to get finished any time soon.

Saint Bernard |

I posted this for someone else's thread but figured I'd link it here as a placeholder. It's just a rough draft right now but could be useful:
Suboptimizing the Suboptimal: A (sub)Guide to the Myrmidarch
It's kind of a mess. There's plenty of editing and changes that it needs, but between real life and freelance projects it's not going to get finished any time soon.
That is a nice start and I think it will be a good addition to the guides.

Gherrick |

Bigtuna wrote:The problem w/r/t RAW is that spell combat will always be incompatible with a 2H weapon because the class feature specifically limits its use to 1-handed or light melee weapons. Now, you could get cute and use your 3rd arm to meet the "hand free" requirement, but a 2H weapon would still be off-limits and you'd be limited to using a 1H weapon with 2 hands.For the Str based Magus - who would like to wield a 2handed weapon instead og a 1handed weapon in two hands.
What option do he's have?
A alchimist or summorner dip could do the trick. - Any thing else?
Spell Combat wouldn't work, but you should still be able to use spellstrike with a 2h weapon, right?

MTCityHunter |

Spell Combat wouldn't work, but you should still be able to use spellstrike with a 2h weapon, right?
That's right. Spellstrike works just fine with a 2H weapon. Changing your grip on the weapon from 2 to 1 handed in order to cast a spell is a free action, as is switching back to a 2H grip (now holding the charge from the touch spell you just cast). Spellstrike would then grant its 'free' attack with which you can deliver that touch spell via a 2H weapon attack. Its especially easy to rationalize this kind of thing if you're also moving prior to making the attack as it would provide plenty of time to switch grips. Personally, I still wouldn't make a 2H magus, but if you didn't care about spell combat, the option's there.
On a similar note, since light doesn't require a somatic component, could you use a one-handed weapon (with both hands) casting light instead of arcane mark?
Its not the somatic component of a spell (or lack thereof) that determines whether it can be used in conjunction with spell combat. Its the SC ability itself that specifies a hand must be free in order to use the ability. Its a case of specific overriding general, so its actually irrelevant whether the spell you want to use with spell combat has S components or not.

Gowen |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've been playing around with build for a Hexcrafter who combines rime frostbite for fatigue/entangle control with the intensified shocking grasp sorcerer dip blaster.
Thanks to Mathwei ap Niall, STR Ranger, and WerePox47 for ideas here..
Human Hexcrafter Magus X/Tatooed Crossblooded Sorcerer 1
Str:16, Dex:12, Con:12, Int:18,Wis:10,Cha:7 (20 point build)
Traits: Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp), Wayang Spellhunter (Frostbite)
1Magus1 (Spell Combat) Rime spell, heighten spell
2 Magus2 (Spellstrike)
3 Sorcerer1 Tatooed Crossblooded (Orc/Blue Dragon ,Varisian Tatoo(Evo), Tatooed familiar), Intensify Spell
4 Magus3 Arcana- Arcane Accuracy
5 Magus4 Hex- Prehensile Hair, Preferred Spell (Shocking Grasp)
6 Magus5 BF: Empower spell
7 Magus6 Hex Arcana:Flight, Extra Hex:Slumber
8 Magus7 (Medium Armor)
9 Magus8 Improved Familiar
10 Magus9 Hex Arcana:Evil Eye
11 Magus10 Spell penetration
12 Magus11 (Spell Recall), BF:Echoing Spell
13 Magus12 Hex Arcana:Ice Tomb, Quicken Spell
14 Magus 13 (Heavy Armor)
15 Magus 14 Spell Perfection (Shocking Grasp)
16 Magus 15 Bane Blade
The Tatooed archetype on the sorcerer gives Varisian Tatoo to keep the CL on the shocking grasp on track. While the Tatooed familiar isn't RAW, I think it is RAI since it explicitly stacks with witch/wizard for familiar level.
Preferred spell allows more utility by not having to dedicate slots to shocking grasp.
If not for the armor spell failure chance, I was looking at Str14/Cha11 to give three additional 1 target rime frostbite castings a day (already on magus spell list, so might qualify for spell combat?).
Any ideas for improving this?

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You will encounter some table variation there.
I, for one, would require a move action.
-James
I wouldn't go so far as calling it a move action. After all, that's how a wizard has to cast a spell if he's wielding a quarterstaff.
To use spell combat, ALL of your attacks must be one-handed. No switching grips in the middle of your routine. But using spellstrike by itself? I'd say go ahead.

james maissen |
I wouldn't go so far as calling it a move action. After all, that's how a wizard has to cast a spell if he's wielding a quarterstaff.
He's not.. in fact the thread on arcane bonds mentioned this and said mercifully using a staff as a magical staff only requires holding it in one hand.
Going from having the weapon accessible to wielded seems most appropriate to be a move action.
-James

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I'd say that switching how many hands you're wielding a weapon with is closer to switching how you're using a double weapon (free) than drawing a weapon from a sheath (move).
The closest semi-official statement on this I could find was this one by James Jacobs. That's not as definitive as a quote from JB or SKR, but it's the best I got. :)
If you are treating it as a move action, I'd at the very least say it works exactly like drawing a weapon. I.e. it's free if you have Quick Draw or as part of movement if you have a +1 BAB.

james maissen |
If you are treating it as a move action, I'd at the very least say it works exactly like drawing a weapon. I.e. it's free if you have Quick Draw or as part of movement if you have a +1 BAB.
Yes, I'm using the 'draw a weapon' action for it. It seems to be the most reasonable to me. It is what I would charge a PC to take a weapon from another PC holding it out to them. I generalize this to 'readily accessible' (and thus sunderable, etc) and not 'readily accessible' say in a case or backpack requiring more effort to bring out.
-James

Bigtuna |

Just a thought:
a oracle dip with wind mystery - Votex spells revalation could be worth it with the magus spellstrike ability?
A minor debuff - staggered 1 round - if you crit. But then most things should just die after a crit with a shocking grasp. But if it doens't die - chances are you don't want them to full attack you...

Gherrick |

I am at work and can't access the SRD sites, so I am asking this group. What is a spire defender magus architype?
Spire Defenders are primarily elves, and give up armor proficiencies for Combat Expertise and Dodge. They also get an alternate skill boost ability that replaces spell recall.

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I have some questions an statements.
First, I think Magic Missile is not too bad, especially in the early-to-mid levels, if there are other melee characters in the party. It can double as your 'ranged weapon', and you can use it in tight quarters clogged with your allies, garunteed to damage, if just a bit.
Also, does anyone how effective Warding Blade (?) and Wreath of Blades from Ultimate Combat is in play?
One more thing: do any of you think that a Soul Forger magus could spellstrike through an Iron Cobra with the Construct Limb construct modification?

STR Ranger |

I've been playing around with build for a Hexcrafter who combines rime frostbite for fatigue/entangle control with the intensified shocking grasp sorcerer dip blaster.
Thanks to Mathwei ap Niall, STR Ranger, and WerePox47 for ideas here..
** spoiler omitted **
The Tatooed archetype on the sorcerer gives Varisian Tatoo to keep the CL on the shocking grasp on track. While the Tatooed familiar isn't RAW, I think it is RAI since it explicitly stacks with witch/wizard for familiar level.Preferred spell allows more utility by not having to dedicate slots to shocking grasp.
If not for the armor spell failure chance, I was looking at Str14/Cha11 to give three additional 1 target rime frostbite castings a day (already on magus spell list, so might qualify for spell combat?).
Any ideas for improving this?
NICE!
Consider Cackle earlier+ Evil Eye or Misfortune
rd1. Move Up+Evil Eye(work min 1 round). Evil Eye Is a sick debuff.
rd2. Move action Cackle. Standard Action Spellstrike (Bestow Curse)
rd23. Cackle. Spellstike.
Evil Eye really debuffs enemies. Because spellstrike is a Standard action you can still get in a Stike+Spell. (Your iteratives are nice if using Arcane Accuracy) But getting in a Great save or Suck spell, while making your opponent easy to hit for your fighter and lowering saves for your wizard is potent and sometimes worth giving up a full attack.
Also you didn't build that high but at level 19 take Summon Spirit Hex. Getting an 18th level Ghost Sorcerer is awesome.

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Thanks for the tip, I want a weapon enhancement using the spell.
Fortunately, it's only a 1st-level spell. Hmmm... Wand of Weapon Wand INSIDE a weapon? WANDCEPTION. I like True Strike because it is always the same, unlike other buffs like Shield that vary with level. I am very much looking forward to being able to combine Weapon Wand, Dervish Dancer, and Wand Dancer...

Promos |
Promos wrote:Thanks for the tip, I want a weapon enhancement using the spell.Fortunately, it's only a 1st-level spell. Hmmm... Wand of Weapon Wand INSIDE a weapon? WANDCEPTION. I like True Strike because it is always the same, unlike other buffs like Shield that vary with level. I am very much looking forward to being able to combine Weapon Wand, Dervish Dancer, and Wand Dancer...
I should have worded that differently, I meant I wanted a weapon enhancement version of the spell, so you wouldn't have to keep casting the spell. For the heck of it I made it and posted it in the home brew section.

deuxhero |
Two things of note
1:Kirin Strike adds 2x int to damage, but eats swift actions (which you have a lot of ways to utilize) like crazy, has 2 requirements that aren't all that hot and only works for a single attack (If Kirin Style piggybacked off any knowledge checks instead of requiring an action, it would be great). Worth mentioning on how much a trap it is (why would something intended for monks EVER only work on a single attack?).
2:Brand from APG is a [curse] spell, so Hexcrafter gains it. A nice little bonus as attacking creatures with it is the intent, so it should be allowed for Spell Strike even if Arcane Mark can't be used with Spell Strike.

james maissen |
Yeah, but as the guide says, your GM can find using it to mark creatures silly and prevent it, but can't really say the same thing about Brand given that is the intent.
Sure he can. He can bar Spellstrike with cantrips entirely. Certainly the intent of Brand was not to allow the magus to spellstrike and spell combat without using resources! Y-gads!
If a DM is going to house rule, then they are going to house rule. Most likely based on lack of knowledge of the rules, or lack of understanding on how useful an ability it is to do with a cantrip.
Personally I just see it as irrational cries of 'the sky is falling' and don't like to cater to it by giving it any legitimacy. An action that is mechanically inferior to a monk's flurry of blows doesn't illicit cries of 'OMG broken' that I choose to hear.
-James

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Here is the first draft of my Bladebound Magus/Paladin
I know I haven't chosen the optimal route and I may change a few things as I go over it more. I also apologize for any mistakes.
“Caleb Brightmore”
5th level elven Bladebound Magus / 5th level Paladin (Lawful Good)
Str: 18
Dex: 20
Con: 13
Int: 18
Wis: 9
Cha: 16
HP: 5d8 + 5 (5 Favored Class) 5d10 + 5
AC: 25 (10 + 5 Dex + 8 (+4 Chain Shirt) + 1 (+1 Ring of Amulet of Nat Armor +1) +1 (Ring of Protection +1) = 25
AC with Smite Evil: 27
Touch: 16 (19 with Smite Evil)
Flat-footed: 19 (22 with Smite Evil)
Fort: +14
Ref: + 12
Will: +12
Traits: Magical Knack (+2 caster level on Magus) and Optimistic Gambler (Effects that grant you morale bonuses persist 1d4 rounds longer than they normally would as a result.)
Feats: Intensified Spell, Weapon Finesse, Extra Arcane Pool, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Survival), Eldritch Heritage (Orc),
Race: (Elf): Low-Light Vision: Elves can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Elven Immunities: Elves are immune to magic sleep effects and get a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells and effects.
Elven Magic: Elves receive a +2 racial bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance.
In addition, elves receive a +2 racial bonus on Spellcraft skill checks made to identify the properties of
magic items.
Keen Senses: Elves receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception skill checks.
Weapon Familiarity: Elves are proficient with longbows (including composite longbows), longswords,
rapiers, and shortbows (including composite shortbows), and treat any weapon with the word “elven” in
its name as a martial weapon.
Languages: Elves begin play speaking Common and Elven. Elves with high Intelligence scores can choose
from the following: Celestial, Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan.
Class:(Magus Bladebound): Arcane Pool (8), Cantrips, Spell Combat, Spellstrike, Spell Recall, Bonus Feat, Black Blade,
Bloodline Powers: You are heir to the bestial power of the great orc warlords of the past. You feel their rage in your blood, and must take care lest the urge to despoil and destroy consumes you.
Touch of Rage (Sp): At 1st level, you can touch a creature as a standard action, giving it a morale bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and Will saving throws equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level (minimum 1) for 1d4 + 1 rounds. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
Black Blade: Rapier
• Enhancement bonus (+ 2)
• Intelligence 12
• Wis/Cha 8
• Ego 8
• Alertness
• Black Blade Strike
• Telepathy
• Unbreakable
• Energy Attunement
• Black Blade Arcane Pool (2)
• Languages (Common and Elven)
• Knowledge Arcana ( +2)
• Senses
Paladin: Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 2/day, Divine Grace, Lay on Hands (5/day), Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Mercy, Channel Positive Energy (3d6 DC 15 6/day), Divine Bond, Spells,
Paladin Spells: 1st
• Divine Favor
• Bless
Magus Spells:
• 0: Arcane Mark, Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead
• 1st: Shield, Shocking Grasp x2, Ray of Enfeeblement, True Strike,
• 2nd: Intensified Shocking Grasp x2, Mirror Image
Attack: Black Blade +2 Rapier: + 16 1d6 + 6 18-20 x2
• Black Blade +1 keen rapier: +15 1d6 + 5 15-20 x2
• Black Blade +1 keen, flaming(or Frost, Shock) rapier(Divine Bond): +15 1d6 + 5 + 1d6 (Fire) 15-20 x2
• Black Blade +2 keen rapier (Divine Bond): +16 1d6 + 6 15-20 x2
• Black Blade +1 keen, frost rapier(Divine Bond): +19 (Smite Evil) 1d6 + 5 + 1d6 (Cold) + 5 (Smite Evil 15-20 x2
• Black Blade + 1 keen, frost rapier(Divine Bond): +26 (Smite Evil + Touch of Rage + Arcane Pool) 1d6 + 5 + 1d6 (Cold) + 5 (Smite Evil) + 7d6 (Shocking Grasp) + 1 (Black Blade Strike) + 5 (Touch of Rage) + 1 (Divine Favor) + 2 (Arcane Pool) 15-20 x2
• There are lots of different combinations with this build but the above are a few.
Skills:
• Climb: 2 + 3 + 4 – 1 = + 8
• Knowledge: (Arcana): 4 + 3 + 5 = + 12
• Knowledge: (Planes): 3 + 3 + 5 = + 11
• Spellcraft: 3 + 3 + 5 + 2 + 2(Favored Class) = +15
• Use Magic Device:3 + 3 + 3(Favored Class) + 3 = + 12
• Fly: 1 + 3 + 5 - 1 = + 9
• Knowledge:(Dungeoneering): 3 + 3 + 5 = + 11
• Diplomacy: 4 + 3 + 3 = + 10
• Knowledge:(Religion): 4 + 3 + 5 = + 12
• Ride:3 + 3 + 5 - 1 = + 10
• Sense Motive: 5 + 3 – 1 = + 7
• Perception:6 + 2 – 1 = + 7
• Stealth: 4 + 5 – 1 = + 8
• Survival: 1 + 3 + - 1 = + 3
Gear: +4 mithral chain shirt, Headband of Mental Superiority +2, Belt of Physical Perfection +2, Amulet of Natural Armor + 1, Pearl of Power 1st x2, Cloak of Resistance + 2, Ring of Protection + 1,

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