First off, I think archetypes and prestige classes can coexist together in harmony.
HOWEVER as i have watched the prestige vs archetype discussions on these boards i have seen this design philosophy: that the best prestige classes are the ones created yourself. But has there ever been guidelines on creating balanced and interesting prestige classes in pathfinder.
Archetypes have the guideline of balancing the class feature being traded, but the closest things i have found are the "Prestige Class Creation Cookbook (d20)" and an old 3.5 article i once found on point buy base classes.
To those who favor this philosophy: what guidelines do you use?
Also is it a good idea to build rules around custom prestige classes without giving some official guidelines as to how to implement them into the existing rules?
Well our table tends to use the guide lines of..
If another PrC has it, lets see if we can properly adapt it into our own PrC.
Same with classes.
the biggest problem I have in reading the "I want Prestige Classes" posts is that they never seem specific enough.
I want a 5 new Prestige Classes!
Well, can you be more specific? Do you want a Fire breathing Orc Dancer? Or a Jumpin Poo Poo Man?
I'm not sure if anyone can get anything specific out of it. I guess I agree that the best answer to the endless demand is to just let the players build themselves.
booger=boy
Jumping poo poo man ftw! Call it the $#&+ -slinger.
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Jumping poo poo man ftw! Call it the $#&+ -slinger.the biggest problem I have in reading the "I want Prestige Classes" posts is that they never seem specific enough.
I want a 5 new Prestige Classes!
Well, can you be more specific? Do you want a Fire breathing Orc Dancer? Or a Jumpin Poo Poo Man?
I'm not sure if anyone can get anything specific out of it. I guess I agree that the best answer to the endless demand is to just let the players build themselves.
booger=boy
Wouldn't there need to be a monkey-based player race first to go with this?
Wouldn't there need to be a monkey-based player race first to go with this?Jumping poo poo man ftw! Call it the $#&+ -slinger.the biggest problem I have in reading the "I want Prestige Classes" posts is that they never seem specific enough.
I want a 5 new Prestige Classes!
Well, can you be more specific? Do you want a Fire breathing Orc Dancer? Or a Jumpin Poo Poo Man?
I'm not sure if anyone can get anything specific out of it. I guess I agree that the best answer to the endless demand is to just let the players build themselves.
booger=boy
Humans?
Well there was one back in 3.5.. Rode around on boats of all things.
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Viable Monk/Arcane Spellcaster Mix
Rogue/Divine Spellcaster Mix
Paladin/Barbarian (Righteous Fury!)
Alchemist/ANYTHING (Though Vivisectionist can cover for Rogue just fine)
Viable Paladin/Non-Charisma-based Spellcaster (Smite Hex? Heck yeah)
Inquisitor/Magus, just because you could really blend some of the abilities beautifully.
There. 6 Prestige Class ideas that could make awesome characters that can't work using Multiclassing/Archetype systems in their current incarnation. Keep in mind the use of the word "Viable", and when I used it. Yes, you COULD make a Paladin/Witch/Eldritch Knight... but it'd suck because you just don't have the stats to make it work well.
I personally liked a Prepared/Spont PrC back in 3.5 days when combined with the Force Missile Mage PrC
Basically had really good capabilities at casting magic missile. A few metamagic feats and lingering metamagic tactical feat and I could wipe out rooms of enemies using magic missile.
Course mind you it did take a couple of turns.. Wasn't like I could just wade in and eliminate everything instantly.
The best advice for creating a prestige class is something I read a long time ago. I think it originally came from Monte Cooke, but I'm not sure. The words of wisdom are: "There should be a reason to take the prestige class, and there should be a reason not to take the prestige class."
When making up a prestige class, I am always asking myself these questions:
1. Why does this prestige class exist?
2. What kind of person enters this prestige class?
3. What kinds of things do people who enter this prestige class do?
4. What abilities does the prestige class grant that help people in this class do what they want to do?
5. Why do people in this class have the ability to do what this prestige class offers?
6. Are the abilities offered in this class balanced against abilities offered by the other classes and prestige class options available?
Applying this to my most recently invented prestige class, the Pumanaka, the idea was that of a woman who severs the ties she has with the tribe, and goes off into the wilderness to serve the goddess of rain.
1. The prestige class exists because the rain goddess realizes that some women might not fit in in their tribes, but could be put to work serving her own interests. (This goddess happens to have a Chaotic Good alignment.)
2. People who enter this class come from a tribal society. They tend to chaff at rules and restrictions, but would also like to do something useful with their life. They also have enough interest in religion to devote the rest of their life serving one of the deities.
3. After severing ties with their tribe and serving a short apprentice (sometimes), they are available to be given quests from the goddess. While waiting for a quest, they are encouraged to go on their own adventures. They might (if they still have good relations with at least some members of their tribe) shadow their tribe, helping to protect it from dangers. Or they might leave their tribe behind entirely and explore the world. Nothing says they have to stay in the wilderness. They may even join an adventuring party.
4. I designed this class as a divine combatant from the wilderness. They cast spells, but mainly buffing spells intended to help them confront supernatural foes. They also have the skills to be self sufficient and find their own food, make their own clothes and shelter, etc.
5. The divine abilities come from the goddess. Her divine inspiration also bolsters the martial aspects. While Fighters and Barbarians rely on hours of training with their weapons, members of this prestige class are more likely to get their training in dreams. Years of exposure to the natural world gives them a familiarity with and affinity for survivalist skills.
6. I hope the abilities are balanced against other class abilities. I designed it for 3.5, back when I was considering whether or not to convert my homebrew campaign to Pathfinder. I ended up neither converting the homebrew nor running any more adventures in it. The class probably needs editing for balance and to focus the flavor.
It sounds like that could be done with a druid archetype these days.