How Many Shuriken Can You Throw..?

[GRU]

Hi there,
One of my players are going to play a Monk, and I'm pretty sure that he'll want to throw shuriken.

I've always assumed that you could throw "a handfull", whatever that is...

but, is this true, and if it is, how many?

From the Corebook:

"Shuriken: A shuriken is a small piece of metal with
sharpened edges, designed for throwing. A shuriken can’t
be used as a melee weapon. Although they are thrown
weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the
purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or
otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to
them after they are thrown".

What do say?

GRU

[Cartigan]

1 per attack you can make.

[GRU]

Cartigan wrote:

1 per attack you can make.

Thanks, Cartigan!

GRU

[El Baron de los Banditos]

The Ninja from the Ultimate Combat playtest has an ability to throw more than one per attack, if that is what he's looking for.

IIRC, I've heard that 3.0 or 3.5 shuriken could be thrown in bigger numbers than possible attacks, but didn't get strength to damage. PF Shurikens are the opposite (if that was the case back then.)

[kingpin]

El Baron de los Banditos wrote:

The Ninja from the Ultimate Combat playtest has an ability to throw more than one per attack, if that is what he's looking for.

IIRC, I've heard that 3.0 or 3.5 shuriken could be thrown in bigger numbers than possible attacks, but didn't get strength to damage. PF Shurikens are the opposite (if that was the case back then.)

Really? Has the text for this ability been released yet? I always wanted to see if I could make more from my shuriken. This might be what I am looking for.

[Ughbash]

kingpin wrote:

El Baron de los Banditos wrote:

The Ninja from the Ultimate Combat playtest has an ability to throw more than one per attack, if that is what he's looking for.

IIRC, I've heard that 3.0 or 3.5 shuriken could be thrown in bigger numbers than possible attacks, but didn't get strength to damage. PF Shurikens are the opposite (if that was the case back then.)

Really? Has the text for this ability been released yet? I always wanted to see if I could make more from my shuriken. This might be what I am looking for.

In complete warrior there wa a prestige class "Master thrower"

One of the abilities it could pick up was Palm Throw. This allowed them to throw two small items with each attack but they did nto get their strength bonus on either item.

People used this as well as dual weapon fighting and some other tricks to get 20+ attacks in a round (If my memory serves). Rapidshot + full attack would give 10 attacks, throw in dual wield chain for 6 more, I forget the other tricks involved.

[Bobson]

kingpin wrote:

El Baron de los Banditos wrote:

The Ninja from the Ultimate Combat playtest has an ability to throw more than one per attack, if that is what he's looking for.

IIRC, I've heard that 3.0 or 3.5 shuriken could be thrown in bigger numbers than possible attacks, but didn't get strength to damage. PF Shurikens are the opposite (if that was the case back then.)

Really? Has the text for this ability been released yet? I always wanted to see if I could make more from my shuriken. This might be what I am looking for.

As of the current playtest, it reads:

Flurry of Stars (Ex) wrote:

A ninja with this ability can expend 1 ki point from her ki pool as a swift action whenever she makes a full-round attack with shuriken. She can throw two additional shuriken at her highest attack bonus, but all of her shuriken attacks are made at a –2 penalty.

There's also

Ki Charge (Su) wrote:

A ninja with this trick can invest a portion of her ki into a thrown weapon, such as a shuriken, and throw it as a standard action. The thrown weapon explodes on impact in a 10-foot burst, dealing 1d6 points of fire damage plus 1d6 points of fire damage for every three levels of the ninja above 2nd, to a maximum 5d6 at 15th level. Creatures caught in the blast receive a Reflex save to halve the damage. The DC of this save is 10 + 1/2 the ninja’s level + the ninja’s Charisma modifier. If the thrown weapon hits a creature, that creature takes a –2 penalty on the saving throw. If the thrown weapon misses, treat it as a thrown splash weapon. Using this ability expends 1 ki point from her ki pool.

[John Templeton]

Drawing them is a free action, so you can throw them one per attack. They are a monk weapon so he can use them with furry of blows.

[DragonBringerX]

In 3.0 you could throw 3 per attack, but they dealt 1 damage each (no str bonus). In 3.5 you could throw 1 per attack, but dealt 1d2 damage each (again, no str bonus). In PF, you can throw 1 per attack, deal 1d2 damage plus str bonus each.

[El Baron de los Banditos]

Hooray, people going in depth on things I mentioned! It's like being helpful by PROXY!

I would have been more clear about the ninja ki powers, but doing that on a phone is difficult. The old edition stuff I didn't know for sure; all I knew was they were only useful for poison use.

[kingpin]

What is interesting, is that from that text, Flurry of Stars would stack with the monk's Flurry of Blows.

Beyond that though, I can't quite see a way of making a good cross-class build. The monk is too MAD to not have Cha as a dump stat.

[kingpin]

Although. I just had a quick play, and here is what I came up with...

Quote:

MONK/NINJA CR 5

Male Human Monk 4 Ninja 2
LN Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +1; Senses Perception +11
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 16, touch 16, flat-footed 14. . (+1 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 37 (6d8)
Fort +4, Ref +8, Will +7
Defensive Abilities Evasion
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 40 ft.
Melee Unarmed Strike FoB +8/+8 +9 (1d8+5/20/x2)
Ranged +1 Shuriken +7 (1d2+6/20/x2)
Special Attacks Flurry of Blows +8/+8 BAB +1, Flurry of Stars, Ki Attack Speed, Ki Strike, Magic, Sneak Attack +1d6
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 20, Dex 12, Con 11, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 7
Base Atk +4; CMB +10 (+12 Grappling); CMD 25 (27 vs. Grapple)
Feats Dodge, Extra Ki, Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Monk Weapon Proficiencies, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Stunning Fist (4/day) (DC 16), Weapon Focus: Shuriken
Skills Acrobatics +10, Diplomacy +7, Disguise +2, Intimidate +2, Perception +11, Sleight of Hand +5, Stealth +10, Use Magic Device +7 Modifiers Ki Jump (Running Start)
Languages Common
SQ AC Bonus +4, Fast Movement (+10'), Ki Defense (Su), Ki Movement, Ki Pool (Su), Ki Stealth, Maneuver Training (Ex), Poison Use, Slow Fall 20' (Ex), Still Mind (Ex), Stunning Fist (Stun, Fatigue) (Ex), Unarmed Strike (1d8)
Combat Gear +1 Shuriken (50);
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
+1 Shuriken - 0/50
Ki Pool (Su) - 0/6
Stunning Fist (4/day) (DC 16) - 0/4
--------------------

Created With Hero Lab® - try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com!

So at 5th level, you can make 5 shuriken attacks at +6,+6,+6,+6,+1 for 1d2+6 each. Also there is the potential for sneak attack. This can be done 6 times a day. Nothing game breaking, I know, but it doesn't hurt a monk build as much as I thought it would.

[Aldin]

Is there any reason you couldn't use the Rapid Shot feat to get in at least two?

[kingpin]

Rapid shot doesn't stack with Flurry of Blows. You could take Deadly Aim to increase damage however.

[Bobson]

kingpin wrote:

Rapid shot doesn't stack with Flurry of Blows. You could take Deadly Aim to increase damage however.

Actually, Rapid Shot does stack with FoB, unless you're a Zen Archer. On the flip side, Rapid Shot and FoB would only be able to be used together on shuriken unless you're a Zen Archer. So you trade the ability to stack them for the ability to use other ranged weapons with FoB. (Incidentally, anyone know why a Zen Archer can get Rapid Shot as a bonus feat?)

[kingpin]

Tat's great. This monk/ninja build actually could be quite good then. It is shame it is such a waste making magic ammo.

[nijineko]

actually, even in 3.5 shuriken received str bonus to damage.

also, since arrows and bolts which have been enchanted are purchased as single arrows and bolts (see DMG), enchanted shuriken would likewise be purchased (and paid for) singly. thus you divide the cost of enchanting a group of 50 shuriken by 50 to derive the price for a single one.

as such, you can afford some unique and useful combinations of effects on shuriken, that you might not be able to afford otherwise.

there is also a metal which reforms a bit after being destroyed. great for weapons sundered... or ammunition expended.... the dm might be in the right to claim that the destruction nullified any enchantments, however. ^^

[Goldenbraid]

I made this build in 3.5 was a three-keen monk (and a s%$+load of other classes and PrCs, master thrower amongst others, and stuff from Tome of Battle... I remember my record was 54, pretty sure some other optimizer did a better job than me. Cons? 3-keen live for 1d4 years. Haven't touched the build since.

edit: I believe she used returning shurikens? I can't remember. IIRC shurikens were destroyed in the process but i remember enchanting them with wounding or something like that. Like storm of shurikens (perhaps were daggers after all =0) that dealt almost no damage but blitzkrieg CON drain :P