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I don’t believe you’ll run into any problems or grief if you play by the last playtest document as that’s what the additional resources page cites as legal, and as long as you make changes or use what appears to be the legal document in the alternate resources page in good faith, you shouldn’t have an issue.
The key here, is in good faith.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Technically speaking UM isn't quite "released" yet, it's still in delivery.
It's release date was May 18th. When the PDFs go on sale at the Paizo site is the street date for brick and mortar stores. The book is available to anyone who wants it, now. Unless you ordered from Amazon, I hear (in which case, caveat emptor is your phrase of the day...)
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Technically speaking UM isn't quite "released" yet, it's still in delivery.It's release date was May 18th. When the PDFs go on sale at the Paizo site is the street date for brick and mortar stores. The book is available to anyone who wants it, now. Unless you ordered from Amazon, I hear (in which case, caveat emptor is your phrase of the day...)
Local Game Store: doesn't have it yet.
Barnes & Nobles: doesn't even have it in the warehouse yet, much less in the stores.
Borders: Yeah, right.
B&M appears to mean either Bricks & Mortar or Behind & Malchronistic.*
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Local Game Store: doesn't have it yet.
Barnes & Nobles: doesn't even have it in the warehouse yet, much less in the stores.
Borders: Yeah, right.
B&M appears to mean either Bricks & Mortar or Behind & Malchronistic.*
Barnes and Noble and Borders use the book distribution channels. You'll see UM there on Tuesday next week.
Your local game store may be doing their orders on Monday for delivery Thursday/Friday. I'll bet they have them today or tomorrow.
I'm a Pathfinder nut, so I made sure mine shipped to put them in my store on the release date. Thus, I got all mine yesterday, as did a couple other stores around town - they have to compete with me :-D. Live anywhere near Denver? You can have a copy by this afternoon.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Here is a copy of the rules in the current Additional Rules page covering the use of Ultimate Magic Playtest.
Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic Playtest As of 9/20/10, the Magus base class is legal for play. Please note that we reserve the right to change the class at any time during the playtest (defined for Pathfinder Society Organized Play as any time between 9/20/10 and the release of the final book) and that you must update your magus to current rules if/when the rules are updated. You must also keep a close eye on the Ultimate Magic playtest messageboards to be aware of changes and you must bring a printed copy of the playtest with you to any session where you play your magus.
The problem presented is that according to the above description. The playtest version is not legal for use in a Society game since the book's releas date was on the 18th. I bought mine at the local gaming shop once UPS dropped off the delivery. It does not list the playtest as usable until the Additional Rules page is updated to include new rules for the use of the retail version of Ultimate Magic.
So as of right now the old version is out, and the new version is not in use yet. Anyone currently with a Magus character is in limbo.
Right there with you. When I referenced the release date, I was agreeing with you: I want an update, as the book is considered "available."
I have a table of brand new PFS players who waited to start their PFS careers until today specifically so they could use Ultimate Magic to build their characters. According to a post made last week, the Additional Resources page was supposed to be updated yesterday. It wasn't. Now my players are panicky. I will, of course, use Andrew's suggestion of "in good faith" if I have to, but it sets a bad precedent...
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Technically speaking UM isn't quite "released" yet, it's still in delivery.It's release date was May 18th. When the PDFs go on sale at the Paizo site is the street date for brick and mortar stores. The book is available to anyone who wants it, now. Unless you ordered from Amazon, I hear (in which case, caveat emptor is your phrase of the day...)
Here is a copy of the rules in the current Additional Rules page covering the use of Ultimate Magic Playtest.
Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic Playtest As of 9/20/10, the Magus base class is legal for play. Please note that we reserve the right to change the class at any time during the playtest (defined for Pathfinder Society Organized Play as any time between 9/20/10 and the release of the final book) and that you must update your magus to current rules if/when the rules are updated. You must also keep a close eye on the Ultimate Magic playtest messageboards to be aware of changes and you must bring a printed copy of the playtest with you to any session where you play your magus.
The problem presented is that according to the above description. The playtest version is not legal for use in a Society game since the book's release date was on the 18th. I bought mine yesterday at the local gaming shop once UPS dropped off the delivery. It does not list the playtest as usable until the Additional Rules page is updated to include new rules for the use of the retail version of Ultimate Magic.
So as of right now the old version is out, and the new version is not in use yet. Anyone currently with a Magus character is in limbo.
And what I'm saying is, your Magus should be fine as long as you use the Playtest document. Because even after the official release, the Ultimate Magic is not valid until its on the Alternate Resources document.
If you try your best to follow the rules, in good faith, then using the playtest documents OR Ultimate Magic (for the base magus only) then I don't see you having a problem. Even if you do something slightly wrong, its Paizo hasn't updated their document yet. So I'm sure they won't have an issue with you using the playtest documents until they officially list what is legal for play from Ultimate Magic.
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Keep on using the Playtest Magus until Ultimate Magic is placed on the 'Additional Resources' list. The rules (Additional Resources) have not been updated, and thus, the magus still has not technically been updated to its final version. There is no grey area.
and that you must update your magus to current rules if/when the rules are updated.
Additional Resources = Current Rules. Rules have not been updated, stay the course until otherwise notified.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Keep on using the Playtest Magus until Ultimate Magic is placed on the 'Additional Resources' list. The rules (Additional Resources) have not been updated, and thus, the magus still has not technically been updated to its final version. There is no grey area.
If there's no grey area, then Vinyc is correct: the release date for Ultimate Magic was May 18th. The Playtest version of the Magus was not valid for play as of that date. Until the Additional Resources page gets updated, there is currently no legal version of the class.
Moot point, though. Just make an update, please.
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Keep on using the Playtest Magus until Ultimate Magic is placed on the 'Additional Resources' list. The rules (Additional Resources) have not been updated, and thus, the magus still has not technically been updated to its final version. There is no grey area.
This is classic Rules-as-Intended vs Rules-as-Written. Let's try and have fun and not beat ourselves over the head with the rulebook. I think Joseph has the right idea, play the class and have fun. The rules will follow.
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Moot point, though. Just make an update, please.
I'm sure as soon as the appropriate people have had adequate time to go over the what is honestly a massive amount of new content for suitability in organized play, they'll make a post. =D
I'm honestly a bigger fan of waiting for the whole UM update to additional resources vs. any sort of piecemeal way of doing it. And demanding they do a rush job usually means the first go at it will require revisiting at some point.
The playtest version of the Magus is legal until the Additional Resources page gets updated, which should be today or tomorrow. :)
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The Additional Resources page is now updated. You can find it here:
Hyrum.
I find this tough to work through as posted. I think this parsing is correct with bullet points and added text by me of "(is not legal)" and "(are not legal)" to separate out the changed portions from not-legal portions:
The playtest version of the magus is no longer legal for play as of 5/18/11. Anyone playing the playtest version must have updated his or her character as of 5/18/11. Updating your character means adjusting only the things that have changed, but not rebuilding the character.
The following parts of Ultimate Magic are NOT legal for play or function differently than written in the sourcebook:
- Alternate Class Abilities: alchemical simulacrum discovery, alchemical zombie discovery, (are not legal)
- bottled ooze discovery may only be used to bottle oozes which appear in the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary,
- doppelganger simulacrum discovery, greater alchemical simulacrum discovery, Clone Master alchemist archetype, (are not legal)
- Vivisectionist alchemist archetype does not gain awaken at 9th level nor does it grant the ability to make anthropomorphic animal permanent,
- Geisha bard archetype grants Spell Focus instead of Scribe Scroll,
- clerics using alternate channeling rules who worship a deity not listed in the Core Rulebook must provide a copy of the source in which their god’s portfolio is listed,
- Clostered Cleric archetype grants Spell Focus at 4th level in place of Scribe Scroll,
- Pack Lord druid archetype, Reincarnated Druid archetype, (are not legal)
- an ex-Inquisitor may not replace existing class abilities with those granted by the Heretic archetype,
- a broken monk vow only requires a casting of atonement to be renewed,
- the Time oracle mystery grants hold monster at 10th level in place of permanency,
- Broodmaster summoner archetype, (is not legal)
- Evolutionist summoners may only mutate an eidolon between sessions,
- child scent hex, poison steep hex, cook people major hex, witch’s brew major hex, arcane builder arcane discovery, golem constructor arcane discovery, true name arcane discovery, staff-like wand arcane discovery; (are not legal)
- Familiars: all familiars in Chapter 2 are legal;
- Feats: Blighted Critical, Create Reliquary Arms and Shield, Create Sanguine Elixir; (are not legal)
- Spells: all spells are legal for play except those which grant a spellblight (such as curse of magic negation or steal voice);
- Other: No content from Chapter 2 is legal for play except new familiars;
- Words of Power are also forbidden.
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The Additional Resources page is now updated. You can find it here:
Hyrum.
I find this tough to work through as posted. I think this parsing is correct with bullet points and added text by me of "(is not legal)" and "(are not legal)" to separate out the changed portions from not-legal portions:
The playtest version of the magus is no longer legal for play as of 5/18/11. Anyone playing the playtest version must have updated his or her character as of 5/18/11. Updating your character means adjusting only the things that have changed, but not rebuilding the character.
The following parts of Ultimate Magic are NOT legal for play or function differently than written in the sourcebook:
...
- Alternate Class Abilities: alchemical simulacrum discovery, alchemical zombie discovery, (are not legal)
- bottled ooze discovery may only be used to bottle oozes which appear in the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary,
- doppelganger simulacrum discovery, greater alchemical simulacrum discovery, Clone Master alchemist archetype, (are not legal)
- Vivisectionist alchemist archetype does not gain awaken at 9th level nor does it grant the ability to make anthropomorphic animal permanent,
- Geisha bard archetype grants Spell Focus instead of Scribe Scroll,
- clerics using alternate channeling rules who worship a deity not listed in the Core Rulebook must provide a copy of the source in which their god’s portfolio is listed,
- Clostered Cleric archetype grants Spell Focus at 4th level in place of Scribe Scroll,
- Pack Lord druid archetype, Reincarnated Druid archetype, (are not legal)
- an ex-Inquisitor may not replace existing class abilities with those granted by the Heretic archetype,
- a broken monk vow only requires a casting of atonement to be renewed,
- the Time oracle mystery grants hold monster at 10th level in place of permanency,
Nice break down Howie. The pdf version is slightly easier to weed through but not as easy as this.
Antagonize is legal? BWHAHAHAHAAA!
I really appreciate the new Additional Resources page and the continued updating. But I have to say, I sure am glad that I use HeroLab.
So unless I'm mistaken, if someone is going to a PFS event in the next weekend or two, you're not going to have a judge keelhauled if he lets a player use the last playtest version of the Magus, am I correct? From what I can see outside of archetypes, the differences are minimal.The Additional Resources page is now updated. You can find it here:
Hyrum.
The way I understand it, even if the character has no differences at all between the playtest version and the UM version, the player would still have to own UM and have it with them at the table for the character to be legal for play, just like it was for the APG classes when the book was released.
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So unless I'm mistaken, if someone is going to a PFS event in the next weekend or two, you're not going to have a judge keelhauled if he lets a player use the last playtest version of the Magus, am I correct? From what I can see outside of archetypes, the differences are minimal.
This is correct, regardless of what others say. Especially others who rarely play, judge, or coordinate games. They won't be turned away. If there's time, I bet a few people who do have the book would be willing to sit down with them and help them convert it.
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Antagonize is legal? BWHAHAHAHAAA!I expect an errata soon.
If you take this now don't be surprised when the nerf hammer comes down.
I for one am more shocked that Terrible Remorse is legal--out of the fight for one round per level regardless of saves. I guess there aren't so many level 7+ characters, so it won't be an issue immediately, whereas Antagonize is available sooner.
Hi
Sythnesist (Summoner), erm - LEGAL?
Surprised this one passed the test, using your Eidolon's physical stats & abilities instead of your own? Interesting........
Might try one out this weekend at ShadowCon. ;)
Cheers
Paul H
It's not abusive in the slightest. By taking this, you are giving up the biggest advantage of having an Eidolon - an extra full set of actions.
Personally, I intend to use this as a "build-your-own-level-adjustment-race" option. Sure, I'll have a glowing rune on my forehead all the time and will just become "normal" for a while if hit by dismissal or banishment, and will be tied down with the same base physical stats since I can't raise them through level, but hey, it'll be fun.
Just look at it this way, this archetype gives a fun and interesting way to multiclass a little bit of summoner and be a viable character.