Shield Slam
"substituting your attack roll for the combat maneuver check"
Does this mean the result?
I use Weapon Finesse, that's why it matters.
Does it Substitute the result of my attack roll for the CM-Check, meaning I just take the same number against AC and then CMD?
Or do i use the natural d20 and add my attack vs. AC and then add my CMB against CMD?
If #1, would feats like improved bullrush and greater bullrush be added to the result?
If #2, would my Weapon Proficiency (Light Shield) and enhancement bonus on attack add to the result, as I basically made the maneuver with that weapon?
If it is a naural 20, thats definately an automatic hit, but is it also an automatic success for the maneuver atempt?
Thank you
I have always ruled that it is the d20 result, not the entire attack result, namely so that things like Improved Bullrush and size modifiers get applied appropriately.
I rule that any appropriate feats for the maneuvers would apply.
You don't need to take Weapon Proficiency (Light Shield), unless you aren't proficient in all martial weapons. The enhancement bonus on the shield would apply to the attack and the maneuver only if it was a weapon enhancement and not a shield enhancement (as the defensive enhancements do not aid in attack rolls).
A combat maneuver check is considered an attack roll and thus a natural 20 is an automatic success and a natural 1 is an automatic failure.
You don't need to take Weapon Proficiency (Light Shield), unless you aren't proficient in all martial weapons
sorry. Meant Weapon Focus (light shield), so would the +1 on attack also be +1 for the CMB.
A combat maneuver check is considered an attack roll and thus a natural 20 is an automatic success and a natural 1 is an automatic failure.
so if i roll a nat20 with that shield slam i can tell my gm "yes i hit ... and yes you go flying...
As in: "Yes I bullrush your dragon against that wall that is right behind him and he falls prone"?
He would give me the most hurtfull of all looks he can put on.
You don't need to take Weapon Proficiency (Light Shield), unless you aren't proficient in all martial weaponssorry. Meant Weapon Focus (light shield), so would the +1 on attack also be +1 for the CMB.
Then yes, it would add to both results.
A combat maneuver check is considered an attack roll and thus a natural 20 is an automatic success and a natural 1 is an automatic failure.so if i roll a nat20 with that shield slam i can tell my gm "yes i hit ... and yes you go flying...
As in: "Yes I bullrush your dragon against that wall that is right behind him and he falls prone"?
He would give me the most hurtfull of all looks he can put on.
It would need to be a small dragon or a very large character because of this rule regarding bull rushes: "You can only bull rush an opponent who is no more than on size category larger than you." Assuming you are medium, you are stuck only being able to bull rush large sized dragons, which are usually very young.
But yes, a Nat 20 would mean auto-success on both the attack and the maneuver.
Well. That makes my character alot weaker, for I'm using weapon finesse.
But maybe it's for the better anyway. And it makes too much sense, that I could Deny it.
Thank you very much
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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I am playing a sword and shield fighter right now and I use shield slam all the time. I take "attack roll" to mean the actual result. My attack rolls with my shield (using two weapon fighting) were weaker then my bullrush cmb before shield master, so I figured using the attack result was how the feat was balanced. Now, even with the improved and greater bullrush feats they are about even depending on what buffs I have on at the time.
Consider looking at the Klar (Adventurer's Armory, Inner Sea World Guide), which is a light weapon/shield combination.
Also, note this line from Weapon Finesse: "With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls."
You are kind of hosed for using a shield and weapon finesse anyway. Sorry to point that out. Reduce that ACP as much as possible and consider investing in Agile Maneuvers.
You are kind of hosed for using a shield and weapon finesse anyway.
Well, heavy shields count as one handed and light shields count as light weapons for two weapon fighting. So i use a light shield anyways.
Light shield penalty: -1masterwork light shield penalty: -0.
I can live with -0 to my weapon finesse attack really well.
Basically I thought why a rogue should allways offhand a dagger and have low ac: So i took some Shield feats and now I enjoy fissuring my enemys kidneys with a nice shieldbash instead of puncturing it with a dagger.
And it just fits the APG Thug Rogue quite well.
I do enjoy my AC 28 in book 5 of Second Darkness (elven chain+3, bashing light shield+2, RoP+1, DEX +4, dusty rose ion stone +1, yes there IS potential for more)
Attack Roll
An attack roll represents your attempt to strike your opponent on your turn in a round. When you make an attack roll, you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus. (Other modifiers may also apply to this roll.) If your result equals or beats the target's Armor Class, you hit and deal damage.
Sounds to me like it's the d20 + attack bonus to equal the actual "attack roll", which would also make more sense personally.
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Attack Roll
An attack roll represents your attempt to strike your opponent on your turn in a round. When you make an attack roll, you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus. (Other modifiers may also apply to this roll.) If your result equals or beats the target's Armor Class, you hit and deal damage.
Sounds to me like it's the d20 + attack bonus to equal the actual "attack roll", which would also make more sense personally.
+1
D20 roll+BAB+ability mod+feats+misc bonuses (morale, weapon enhancement, charging bonus, ect.)