Just like the title says, I haven't gotten the time to give haunts a proper look, but I'm thinking of spending some of my leisure time this weekend doing just that. Before I do I wanted to get some ideas from others (players or GMs) on how haunts have actually worked in their campaigns.
Just like the title says, I haven't gotten the time to give haunts a proper look, but I'm thinking of spending some of my leisure time this weekend doing just that. Before I do I wanted to get some ideas from others (players or GMs) on how haunts have actually worked in their campaigns.
They seem to function as an ultra flavorful trap. I find the biggest pain with them is that the GM guide doesn't contain several sample haunts like the Trap section of the core book.
But they are more story/plot intensive so this makes sense. 'Kobold Quarterly' has several in the articles that you can find on their website, each set of haunts come with a story behind them. That could give you some good ideas of flavor and function.Also, the 1st part of the 'Carrion Crown' adventure has a bunch of premade haunts based around classic ghost story elements.
Just like the title says, I haven't gotten the time to give haunts a proper look, but I'm thinking of spending some of my leisure time this weekend doing just that. Before I do I wanted to get some ideas from others (players or GMs) on how haunts have actually worked in their campaigns.
They seem to function as an ultra flavorful trap. I find the biggest pain with them is that the GM guide doesn't contain several sample haunts like the Trap section of the core book.
But they are more story/plot intensive so this makes sense. 'Kobold Quarterly' has several in the articles that you can find on their website, each set of haunts come with a story behind them. That could give you some good ideas of flavor and function.Also, the 1st part of the 'Carrion Crown' adventure has a bunch of premade haunts based around classic ghost story elements.
So from actual mechanical use in campaign, you'd say they're more of a really fluffified (I just made that up) trap? I'm wondering if haunts are better as part of a full gothic campaign, or perhaps a full side quest, rather than mingled in to your run of the mill dungeon crawl. They seem to be rather involved both to create, and to overcome.
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From running Runelords, I would suggest having a number of them be part of a mini-campaign, or as a plot-enabled focus of a larger one.
For example, have a house "haunted" by them and the PCs end up setting them off by doing or saying things. Or have a mystical presence (like Casper the friendly ghost :) ) follow them around and causing things to happen.
I basically thought about it like a haunting movie or story.
From running Runelords, I would suggest having a number of them be part of a mini-campaign, or as a plot-enabled focus of a larger one.
For example, have a house "haunted" by them and the PCs end up setting them off by doing or saying things. Or have a mystical presence (like Casper the friendly ghost :) ) follow them around and causing things to happen.
I basically thought about it like a haunting movie or story.
Okay, that's kind of what I was thinking as well. A haunt is more to a quest than just some pit full of spikes, so it has to have some type of plot oriented focus. Thanks for the input.
They seem to be rather involved both to create, and to overcome.Cant say about creation, but so far in our game they havent been hard to overcome. Lots of spamming of disrupt undead and channel energy, mostly.
Oh I get that, but if you've spammed a lot of your channel energy what happens later if you need to do some spam healing? I think a haunt can end up using up quite a bit more of your party resources than the average trap, or even the average monster encounter. That's just my preliminary thoughts though, I've never actually used one yet.
Not sure if you're GMing or playing but I only experienced haunts as a player and as I was the only player aware of the haunt mechanic, it became pretty meta-gamey to deal with them.
The strict use of channel energy to disarm them really does reduce the interest for me. The idea is fine but another way to stop them should be considered imo.. or I missed something?
Roll Perception/Sense Motive check..s+&# happens.. out of channel energy? Deal with it. Meh.
Really lacks the fear factor once the mechanic behind it is known.
Not sure if you're GMing or playing but I only experienced haunts as a player and as I was the only player aware of the haunt mechanic, it became pretty meta-gamey to deal with them.
The strict use of channel energy to disarm them really does reduce the interest for me. The idea is fine but another way to stop them should be considered imo.. or I missed something?
Roll Perception/Sense Motive check..s%@+ happens.. out of channel energy? Deal with it. Meh.
Really lacks the fear factor once the mechanic behind it is known.
Yeah I definitely wondered about that. I'm guessing my players know a little about haunts, they seem to study things more than I do, but if they don't I can absolutely see it becoming meta-gamey. I mean if they can't figure out that it's not a physical bad guy, I might have to do the old "cough cough" [under breath]channel energy[/under breath] "cough cough." That kind of defeats the purpose of such a unique in game mechanic.
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If you have Richard Pett's "Skinsaw Murders" from Pathfinder #2: The Skinsaw Murders or Nic Logue's Hangman's Noose, an early Pathfinder Module, check them out. That's where Haunts started for Paizo.
"The Skinsaw Murders" will probably do a better job of explaining how to use them than Logue's adventure -- The AP has more room for content and it was the first -- but either will be very helpful.
Incidentally, I just ran Hangman's Noose for a couple of newbies and the Haunts, modified the way I modify everything of course, worked quite well. The Players were scared (but not "turtled").
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I don't know about how other DMs incorporate them but I don't say "When you go there it triggers a Haunt" the way I tell them when they trigger a trap.
I just describe what happens.
Let them try to figure out what's going on.
Sure, I may decide to, after a couple of Haunts, tell them "As soon as you touch the..." but I still won't say the word "Haunt."
Example:
And then I give him a premade note that explains that the rest of the PCs' eyes have just started glowing Devil Red and they collectively start foaming at the mouth and advancing.
And I give all the other PCs premade notes that explain that Atilla's eyes have just started glowing Devil Red and that he's starting to froth at the mouth (which he is cuz he's "suffering"(?) from the Haunt).
. . . . And then I'll see how they handle it.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I don't know about how other DMs incorporate them but I don't say "When you go there it triggers a Haunt" the way I tell them when they trigger a trap.
I just describe what happens.
Let them try to figure out what's going on.
. . . . And then I'll see how they handle it.
Like WERay is suggesting, haunts are like everything else a GM does: they are always much better with proper preparation. If you just run it ad hoc after reading through it once, you'll detract pretty severely from the experience.
Someone was suggestion Rise of the Runelords stuff. I also suggest that, but I would look at #6 Spires of Xin-Shalast to see the true power of haunts. The opening act in that adventure has an incredible sequence involving an outpost haunted by some severely twisted souls. I'll be running that within the next couple weeks, and am really looking forward to it.
But, to carry on the thought I started with, I'm doing a ton of prep work. Notes, pictures, refining my descriptions, etc. I know my players; anything less and they'll just ho-hum the whole thing.
By the way, I don't think I've read any haunt encounters in any of the adventures I've run that *can't* be overcome in some other way besides channeling. There is always some other method of dispersing it written into the encounter. And making sure this method is hinted at in your description should be key, as sussing this out makes the tension ratchet up in the encounter. I honestly don't think my players have ever actually dealt with a haunt merely by channeling energy.
Not sure if you're GMing or playing but I only experienced haunts as a player and as I was the only player aware of the haunt mechanic, it became pretty meta-gamey to deal with them.
The strict use of channel energy to disarm them really does reduce the interest for me. The idea is fine but another way to stop them should be considered imo.. or I missed something?
Roll Perception/Sense Motive check..s&!$ happens.. out of channel energy? Deal with it. Meh.
Really lacks the fear factor once the mechanic behind it is known.
Haunting of Harrowstone explains the mechanics, different haunts and the ways that they can be defeated/dispelled other than Channel.
I think they are awesome and flavourful. But then I run a horror type game.
EDIT
They do need some work from the GM to make them "special". If its just boils down to making a perception roll and being told you spot a haunt, then I can understand why they may come across as meh.
However if you get asked to make a perception roll and detect the smell of burning flesh and maybe a little INT check to be told that this may be the sign of a ghostly apparition and you remember the old tales your grandfather spoke of when he scared you when young that such unquiet spirits can be placated with a chilling spell (chill metal in gamespeak), then you have a different type of encounter.
Mended Wall:
I'm the author of Haunting of Harrowstone's haunts article, and you can find some helpful pointers, optional rules, and further clarifications in my posts on the subect on this thread, most specifically here and here.
Hope that helps!
Thank you!
Also @Liz. I'm experiencing some web weirdness. I only see the spoiler tag you added when I'm on in "reply mode." On the regular page it doesn't show up. In addition, Spacelard's Edit doesn't show up on my regular page, but does show up when I'm replying... ?
Thank you!
Also @Liz. I'm experiencing some web weirdness. I only see the spoiler tag you added when I'm on in "reply mode." On the regular page it doesn't show up. In addition, Spacelard's Edit doesn't show up on my regular page, but does show up when I'm replying... ?
My real short answer is the more you put into describing the haunt, the more your players will get out of it.
My real short answer is the more you put into describing the haunt, the more your players will get out of it.
Absolutely! Once it turns into a mechanic, the point is lost. Keep the flavor alive!
(And this is coming from an author who gets paid to write haunts, and who was playing a cleric who lost a party member to a haunt when I didn't realize what the GM was doing to us! So, played right, even the experienced can be fooled with well-run haunts!)
My real short answer is the more you put into describing the haunt, the more your players will get out of it.Absolutely! Once it turns into a mechanic, the point is lost. Keep the flavor alive!
(And this is coming from an author who gets paid to write haunts, and who was playing a cleric who lost a party member to a haunt when I didn't realize what the GM was doing to us! So, played right, even the experienced can be fooled with well-run haunts!)
To be honest if I described the area getting cold and frost forming on armour, breath visible in the air and my players turned around and started thrusting torches into the area or cast burning hands or heat metal that would be enough for me as GM to neutralize that haunt whatever the rules said. It shows that the players are immersing themselves into it and thinking like a PC might think.
My real short answer is the more you put into describing the haunt, the more your players will get out of it.Absolutely! Once it turns into a mechanic, the point is lost. Keep the flavor alive!
(And this is coming from an author who gets paid to write haunts, and who was playing a cleric who lost a party member to a haunt when I didn't realize what the GM was doing to us! So, played right, even the experienced can be fooled with well-run haunts!)
Brandon, I took a look at your posts and after having skimmed through the d20pfsrd.com haunts section I'm beginning to get a nice clear picture of these. You could do some great story stuff with haunts, and done right each individual haunt could be a mini-quest of it's own, especially if the PC's need to do some knowledge gathering in order to figure out those local legends, etc. I loooooove the idea of a ghost that keeps reappearing even after you've spam-positive-energied the crap out of it. I can see it now. The PC's go back to town feeling all glorious having "vanquished" the ghost at the local graveyard. Only to find out that the ghost reappeared the next night and scared the daylights out of a couple of gravediggers. As I look at it now, a haunt, if done well, is either a great story element as part of a larger gothic quest, or at bare minimum a mini-side-quest all it's own. I'll be playing around with some of the examples to see how I can incorporate one into my current campaign.
Thanks to all for their replies and suggestions.
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The first time I used them was shortly after The Skinsaw Man came out (or was it Hangman's Noose?), anyway, I was running a campaign using big chunks of AoW and I put a bunch of Haunts in "The Three Faces of Evil" -- I loved the idea of Haunts and thought they fit perfectly in that adventure.
Anyway, after a few haunting incidents, my PCs were trying to figure out wtf was going on -- they were enjoying being scared out of their skins (It can be SO hard to get experienced gamers really scared!) -- and one of them remarked that it was the best "Haunted House" he'd ever played in.
He had figured out that "what I was doing" was some kind of haunting -- I felt that Paizo had done such a spectacular thing with these "Haunts" that I knew I was gonna use them as often as I could without overusing and ruining them -- they were so successful.
I've always given MAD props to Richard Pett for inventing the concept. But I saw Lazar X post earlier that it was in a White Wolf game so I guess I have to limit credit to merely introducing them to D&D.
I have loved using haunts, I first used them in the Skinsaw murders. I reccomend potentially forcing them upon your players rather than allowing them a saving throw as it makes for a far more interesting experience, just make sure the punishments arent to severe.
Don't have my GM guide on hand, but... I think channel energy only temporarily "subdues" a haunt. It becomes active again later and can only be permanently destroyed via the "specific" means.
As to using them, they do lend themselves to a full haunted house type of experience. But you could easily use them to add flavor to any adventure area as long as it is appropriate.
For example, a tropical island could have several haunts related to a mutiny over the buried treasure on it.
An old keep may have a haunt or several related to a murder in the castles history.
Or just places within a dungeon where previous adventurer's have met a particularly gruesome end.
Using haunts like in the above examples could allow you to have an adventure that is otherwise undead free. Even with say the keep example, you could have the "goblins" that now live there only approach the haunted area to leave offering to appease the angry spirits.
Beyond that used in such ways they offer added story. Such as with the island,,, PC's may only have a map marked with the stereo-typical X, but they learn how the treasure got there from encounters with the haunts.
I used a modified haunt to emulate the power of the Yellow Sign during a boss battle in my game. Instead of undead energies, it was the ancient Old Ones, but it worked fairly well.
They seem to function as an ultra flavorful trap. I find the biggest pain with them is that the GM guide doesn't contain several sample haunts like the Trap section of the core book.
But they are more story/plot intensive so this makes sense. 'Kobold Quarterly' has several in the articles that you can find on their website, each set of haunts come with a story behind them. That could give you some good ideas of flavor and function.
Added a link to KQ.
Haunts are traps you don't want to find.