Director of Brand Strategy
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Subscribers should start getting their copies of Ultimate Magic early this week so I wanted to head off the inevitable inquiries about what elements of it are or are not legal for PFS play. Since the book will be unavailable to non-subscribers before 5/18, we'll be updating the Additional Resources page on that date. Going forward, the plan will be to update the Additional Resources list on the date a given month's subscription products go on sale in pdf format.
If you are playing a playtest version of the magus, you must have your character converted to the final rules on or by 5/18.
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I must protest. This book contains an archetype titled the Celebrity, as if one must dilute one's talents to become famous. How dare you imply that any of us established personalities are not worthy of our hard-earned celebrity? We cannot allow these no-talent upstarts the unearned privilege of receiving attention befitting only of those above them!
-Gabrielle d'Apcher, Aristocrat7
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Subscribers should start getting their copies of Ultimate Magic early this week so I wanted to head off the inevitable inquiries about what elements of it are or are not legal for PFS play. Since the book will be unavailable to non-subscribers before 5/18, we'll be updating the Additional Resources page on that date. Going forward, the plan will be to update the Additional Resources list on the date a given month's subscription products go on sale in pdf format.
If you are playing a playtest version of the magus, you must have your character converted to the final rules on or by 5/18.
So I assume this means I can't play my Undead Lord Cleric until 5/18 and onwards? I guess it's okay because I'm only scheduled to GM from here until then.
/I think I will play him at my first game at Dicehead Siege! :D
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Director of Brand Strategy
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So I assume this means I can't play my Undead Lord Cleric until 5/18 and onwards? I guess it's okay because I'm only scheduled to GM from here until then.
Yes, going forward, subscribers get material "early" while those who don't subscribe aren't "punished" for being expected to convert to rules they don't have access to yet. That said, you can have your cleric prebuilt before then and just make minor changes based on what the book allows/disallows.
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Let's keep discussion of the contents of the book in a different thread, please. This one is about when it will be made legal for PFS, not whether the contents therein constitute the end of the campaign as we know it.
My apologies. I was being facetious. I love new content and hope the saurian shaman will be open for my kellid Druid :-)
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Hi
Yep, the new rules are posted tomorrow, but what 'time' tomorrow?
We in Uk are waaaay ahead in time zones to the US. Please don't say as of 'Pacific Central Time'
Thanks
The anxious
Paul H
Actually, they're supposed to be posted today. Though, I don't know what time it is there so it could be tomorrow for you, but it'll be today here in the US... ;)
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It's 15:02 here on the East Coast. *grumbles about where the update is* Looking forward to reviewing this information prior to Dicehead Siege 2011 this weekend. Gotta plan on my Wizard's progression over the weekend. ;-)Hi
19:42 hrs here in UK
Cheers
Paul H
(Bit like Christmas all this waiting) :P
+1
Driving up there from NC tomorrow so won't have a chance after today!!!
Fear not, teribithia9. I assure you that several of us will have printed copies for others to review on site.
That is, IF it gets released sometime today. *LOL*
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Hey guys, what's the link to the page again? I've been trying to find it and I can't for some silly reason.
They really need a good link to that page that stands out and says, "Additional Resources Here"
It's hidden in those small links at the top of the Pathfinder Society page. I dislike those links as they sometimes are the same, but sometimes they change depending on what page you are on at the Paizo website.
Intuitively, the additional resources ought to be amongst the list of links on the right side that are on the PFS page.
Yeah, I agree with putting a link on the right side 100%. I get asked for the link a lot.
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Thanks guys. I finally remembered that the back of the Guide to PFS Play has the link on the additional resources page at the back. So I copy and pasted that into my browser.
Still would be nice to have a large, easy to see, link for it, but I did book mark it for myself so I don’t ever forget it again.
Yep, if T-shirts get a link on the right then the Additional Resources page certainly should...
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Any reason Ultimate Magic isn't on the Additional Resources page, yet? I have a table of brand new PFS players who scheduled for my Learn to Play night tonight specifically so they could start characters with this book. I'd rather not turn them away after spending a week telling them not to worry, that it'd be up on the 18th, as promised...
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*checks his watch, looks at a calendar, confirms the time on a wall clock, checks his watch again, then checks the date/time on his computer*
Huh? Thought we were going to see the updated approved list on the 18th? Are we going to have it before Friday? We'd really like to have this on hand before the conventions occurring this weekend.
Words of Power are also forbidden.
I think this was probably the right decision, although it's slightly disappointing.
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Just so it's a little bit easier on the eyes to make sense of it...
The playtest version of the magus is no longer legal for play as of 5/18/11. Anyone playing the playtest version must have updated his or her character as of 5/18/11. Updating your character means adjusting only the things that have changed, but not rebuilding the character.
The following parts of Ultimate Magic are NOT legal for play or function differently than written in the sourcebook:
Alternate Class Abilities: alchemical simulacrum discovery, alchemical zombie discovery, bottled ooze discovery may only be used to bottle oozes which appear in the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary, doppelganger simulacrum discovery, greater alchemical simulacrum discovery, Clone Master alchemist archetype, Vivisectionist alchemist archetype does not gain awaken at 9th level nor does it grant the ability to make anthropomorphic animal permanent, Geisha bard archetype grants Spell Focus instead of Scribe Scroll, clerics using alternate channeling rules who worship a deity not listed in the Core Rulebook must provide a copy of the source in which their god’s portfolio is listed, Clostered Cleric archetype grants Spell Focus at 4th level in place of Scribe Scroll, Pack Lord druid archetype, Reincarnated Druid archetype, an ex-Inquisitor may not replace existing class abilities with those granted by the Heretic archetype, a broken monk vow only requires a casting of atonement to be renewed, the Time oracle mystery grants hold monster at 10th level in place of permanency, Broodmaster summoner archetype, Evolutionist summoners may only mutate an eidolon between sessions, child scent hex, poison steep hex, cook people major hex, witch’s brew major hex, arcane builder arcane discovery, golem constructor arcane discovery, true name arcane discovery, staff-like wand arcane discovery;
Familiars: all familiars in Chapter 2 are legal;
Feats: Blighted Critical, Create Reliquary Arms and Shield, Create Sanguine Elixir;
Spells: all spells are legal for play except those which grant a spellblight (such as curse of magic negation or steal voice);
Other: No content from Chapter 2 is legal for play except new familiars; Words of Power are also forbidden.
<--- is exceptionally surprised Master Summoner is legal.
<--- is exceptionally surprised Master Summoner is legal.
<--- is exceptionally pleased Master Summoner is legal.
Statting up one now.
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Wow, so it looks like the black blade is legal. That's going to be interesting.
oh how this makes me a happy man.
but i am also a little confused on how this part works
At 3rd level, the bladebound magus’ gains a powerful sentient weapon called a black blade, whose weapon type is chosen by the magus (see sidebar).
because as far as i read that, the magus gets a free weapon of his choice, even say an adamantine scimitar, which also acts as a +1 weapon when you first get it, that's a 4015g weapon for free.
also how are the black blades languages chosen?
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I'd much rather see people bringing to the table their statted out personalized little pack of creatures... ala the Beastmaster, than the gamist player who just spams and spams creatures, whilst also slowing things down as they flip through the Bestiary to figure out what the next creature should be to pop out right next to an enemy.
Whatever you are playing you have an obligation to the table to be ready when your turn comes up. If someone is flipping through the bestiary trying to come up with the ideal creature to summon the GM is well within his rights to tell the character he's delaying until he figures out what he's doing and move on to the next player.
As for the Broodmaster, seems to me like the Summoner's eidolon is one of the most misunderstood class features ever. While I love the class for my home game I almost wish they would ban it from Organized Play. Adding in the complexity of splitting it into multiple creatures isn't a good fit for organized play. I'm glad it didn't make the cut.
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I'd much rather see people bringing to the table their statted out personalized little pack of creatures... ala the Beastmaster, than the gamist player who just spams and spams creatures, whilst also slowing things down as they flip through the Bestiary to figure out what the next creature should be to pop out right next to an enemy.
I for one am glad that Mark made a solid effort to leave in as much content from UM has he could. In hindsight though, I wish I had said something about the Master Summoner.
If you don't want massive frowny faces from me and the rest of the table, if you do play one (not you in particular, but "you" in general), I do hope you have fully statted out monster blocks ready and know your stuff, which includes actually likely having handle animal, because if I'm waiting 10 minutes for each one of your turns to resolve, I'm going to eventually just "cut off the head of the snake" so to speak.
I agree with James; the Master Summoner (with a pet and a heap of summoned creatures) is no worse than a druid (with a pet and a heap of summoned creatures).
Unless the player is trying to run some kind of circus event and get the animals to perform tricks, or get them to fight like some highly skilled combat savant surely its easiest to just let them get on with it: fight the creature it happens to be flanking, then attack the next one and so on? Insisting on handle animal checks for fairly basic combat is one of the things that slows the game down. It's just a spell at the end of the day, like Magic Missile or Fireball but a bit more interesting.
I agree that a player should have all the stat blocks ready to go, but they may need a moment to think about which creature to summon just as a wizard or cleric often needs a moment to decide which spell to cast after someone runs into a blast radius and messes up their plans.
If I do play a Master Summoner I'll take linguistics to learn the elemental and planar languages, but I won't bother with handle animal. The dogs can just attack the nearest enemy.
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I'm curious why is the summoner singled out for this and not almost every single druid PC?
I don't think Ryan is calling out the summoner, specifically, just a friendly reminder and continuation of the discussion regarding PC's with Summons.
In my experience, players are rarely, if ever, using Summon Monster/Nature's Ally. Not to say there aren't players out there that do, just I haven't seen them. I think it is largely due to the full-round casting time. And let's face it, at low levels, the summoned creatures can be as much a hindrance as an asset. They can clog up the fighter's charging lanes, block otherwise occupiable (word?) squares, etc. If you focus on summoning, add augment, etc., then it can be effective. I just don't see it.
With the reduced casting time and significantly increased duration, the summoner is much more likely to conjure up some speed bumps. And with the varied (and often mis-used) eidolon evolutions, the summoner class seems to be the defacto leader in slow-play.
It would seem that summoning creatures gets a bit different treatment than companion creatures with regards to OP. There do not seem to be any rules targeted on restricting the summoning, perhaps because they have inherent limitations. However, companions are always restricted. With much more customizable builds, permanent duration, and training, they are at a much higher risk of "breakage." IMO, this is why they have been nerfed for OP.
Whether you agree with the ruling or not, it seems to be consistent through the new releases. Classes/archetypes that allow for summoning are not restricted, while those that deal with multiple companions are. So it does not surprise me that Master Summoner is approved, while Broodmaster/Packmaster are not.
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I don't think Ryan is calling out the summoner, specifically, just a friendly reminder and continuation of the discussion regarding PC's with Summons.
Thank you. This. Any character with access to summons can be a royal pain in the behind in a limited 5 hour session - now we have a couple ATs though that are specifically tailored to that playstyle. I have no problem if somebody wants to play that kind of character, but I do expect that you know your material before you try.
As for singling out this kind of character? If your summoner/druid/whatever being that much of hindrance to the enemy, the old Shadowrun phrase "gank the mage first" comes to mind.
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oh how this makes me a happy man.
but i am also a little confused on how this part works
At 3rd level, the bladebound magus’ gains a powerful sentient weapon called a black blade, whose weapon type is chosen by the magus (see sidebar).because as far as i read that, the magus gets a free weapon of his choice, even say an adamantine scimitar, which also acts as a +1 weapon when you first get it, that's a 4015g weapon for free.
also how are the black blades languages chosen?
If you look at the sidebar, there are limitations on what kind of weapon can be used (a scimitar is OK). It doesn't specifically say anything about special materials, but I would certainly interpret the description as "a regular weapon." In a home game the GM would decide how the language is picked (if they had a "destiny" in mind they might want specific languages) but in Society, you pick it.
Balance-wise in Organized Play, you're giving up 1-2 from your Arcane Pool and your first of a very limited number of Arcana for a weapon that eventually climbs to +3 enhancement and a pool of 3. I don't think it's unbalanced. My disappointment is the potential ego conflict and the goals of the blade itself. These can be one the most fun things in a campaign and are a balancing factor for the power of an intelligent weapon. Unless you play with the same GM every scenario, you're probably going to see the ego hand-waved and there's really no way to roleplay the blade's goal slowly manifesting. (I think most players will just pick a goal when they start like "My blade wants to destroy all undead." As opposed to slowly finding out as the blade grows more aware "Wait, my blade wants orcs to rule the surface of Golarion?! And I have to make an ego check to attack them with the blade? Maybe even to cast at them while I'm wielding the blade? And it's going to get worse?!")
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the magus gets a free weapon of his choiceI think it's safe to assume you can get any blade of any material you want as long as you pay for it. Like everything you find in Pathfinder Society you've got to hand over the gold to make it yours.
That's how I thought it would work & how I'm planning to play it for my magus.
Effectively, the blade he's been using thru his first 2 levels 'awakens' when he opts for the Bladebound archetype at 3rd level & things proceed onward from there.|
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I'm curious why is the summoner singled out for this and not almost every single druid PC?I don't think Ryan is calling out the summoner, specifically, just a friendly reminder and continuation of the discussion regarding PC's with Summons.
In my experience, players are rarely, if ever, using Summon Monster/Nature's Ally. Not to say there aren't players out there that do, just I haven't seen them. I think it is largely due to the full-round casting time. And let's face it, at low levels, the summoned creatures can be as much a hindrance as an asset. They can clog up the fighter's charging lanes, block otherwise occupiable (word?) squares, etc. If you focus on summoning, add augment, etc., then it can be effective. I just don't see it.
Something else to consider is that the monsters on a Druid's spell list have no template adaptations. They generally come as they are from the Bestiary unless the player has taken Augment Summoning or other stat-block modifying feats such as those in Ultimate Magic. The tricky part about cleric/oracle/sorc-wiz/summoner is that they more often than not will be applying a template.
I've long considered it common courtesy for anyone summoning things that don't come straight out as they are from the Bestiary to bring appropriately modified stat blocks. It's what I do with my summoner (keeping a list of 3-4 summons for each Summon Monster that I'm likely to use), and I find it keeps the table running smoothly.
the magus gets a free weapon of his choiceI think it's safe to assume you can get any blade of any material you want as long as you pay for it. Like everything you find in Pathfinder Society you've got to hand over the gold to make it yours.That's how I thought it would work & how I'm planning to play it for my magus.
Effectively, the blade he's been using thru his first 2 levels 'awakens' when he opts for the Bladebound archetype at 3rd level & things proceed onward from there.
Unless the rules for this have been altered or they have expanded to allow Magi to do this, you have to select archetypes when you take your first level in a class. Since the archetype was not available when you created and you aren't allowed for a rebuild, you cannot do this.
Pg. 14, Header "Alternate Class Features", Second Sentence:
"When a character selects a class, he must choose to use the standard class features found in the Core Rulebook or Advanced Player's Guide or those listed in one of the archetypes presented here."
The idea you can take an archetype as long as you do so before the first replacement is probably the most common misconception about them. Archetypes must be selected at first level of a class, even if they do not replace abilities until later.
And I would like to stress that unlike most situations, I would absolutely, positively love someone to come in and prove me wrong on this one.
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And I would like to stress that unlike most situations, I would absolutely, positively love someone to come in and prove me wrong on this one.
You can do so in PFS, as long as the abilities gained are not of a level you have already achieved.
as an Example the Bladebound archetype does not get it's first ability until level 3, so a Level 1 or 2 can become a Bladebound, but not a 3+.