Do spells like Bless and Prayer affect new arrivals?
If a Cleric or Oracle buffs the party before combat with these spells, then summons a monster, does the summoned creature also benefit?
Or does this type of spell only affect those present when the buff is cast?
The spell only affects those present in the area when the spell is cast.
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Do spells like Bless and Prayer affect new arrivals?
If a Cleric or Oracle buffs the party before combat with these spells, then summons a monster, does the summoned creature also benefit?
Or does this type of spell only affect those present when the buff is cast?
Both spells are bursts. Bursts are cast, have their effect, and then are gone. For a spell to affect anyone who subsequently enters the area, including summoned critters, it needs to be of type spread.
Something like Bard's Inspire Courage would work, however.
On a similar note, how does glitterdust work exactly? It's a spread, so the dust cloud remains for the whole duration and should blind anyone inside. How about someone who enters the cloud a round after it's been cast? I'd say save or blind. But wouldn't that mean someone who makes his save but doesn't move out of the cloud would be blinded in later rounds (unless he makes the save, of course)? Would someone who fails save remain blind if he leaves the cloud?
Frankly I always thought of glitterdust as a burst spell that affects just those who are in the area at the time of casting. But the description clearly says spread so the cloud itself should linger. Is that correct?
On a similar note, how does glitterdust work exactly? It's a spread, so the dust cloud remains for the whole duration and should blind anyone inside. How about someone who enters the cloud a round after it's been cast? I'd say save or blind. But wouldn't that mean someone who makes his save but doesn't move out of the cloud would be blinded in later rounds (unless he makes the save, of course)? Would someone who fails save remain blind if he leaves the cloud?
Frankly I always thought of glitterdust as a burst spell that affects just those who are in the area at the time of casting. But the description clearly says spread so the cloud itself should linger. Is that correct?
The effect of the gliderdust that may cause blindness is burst, the dust isn't (so invisible creatures who enter later are still outlined)
The effect of the gliderdust that may cause blindness is burst, the dust isn't (so invisible creatures who enter later are still outlined)
The rules only list the area as creatures and objects within 10-ft.-radius spread. Burst is not listed.
The ways I've heard of it being ruled are:
A) Effect hits just once, but everything that got hit stays glittery for the duration. (IE: walking into the area after it's gone off has no effect)
B) Cloud of Blinding Glitter - Anything in the area, or entering the area for the duration gets covered in glitter for the full duration, as well as the blindness effect.
C) Cloud of plain Glitter - Same as B, but the blindness only happens to creatures within the area when the spell is cast. Anything entering the area after casting, but during the duration, gets covered in glitter (but not blind)
Another question would be, do creatures get a Will save VS the initial blindness? Or are they ALWAYS blind until the end of their turn when they can Will save vs the blindness? I assume since the "Save" line doesn't say "(see text)" that means they get an immediate save VS the blindness, AND an extra save at the end of each turn.
The effect of the gliderdust that may cause blindness is burst, the dust isn't (so invisible creatures who enter later are still outlined)The rules only list the area as creatures and objects within 10-ft.-radius spread. Burst is not listed.
The ways I've heard of it being ruled are:
A) Effect hits just once, but everything that got hit stays glittery for the duration. (IE: walking into the area after it's gone off has no effect)
B) Cloud of Blinding Glitter - Anything in the area, or entering the area for the duration gets covered in glitter for the full duration, as well as the blindness effect.
C) Cloud of plain Glitter - Same as B, but the blindness only happens to creatures within the area when the spell is cast. Anything entering the area after casting, but during the duration, gets covered in glitter (but not blind)
Another question would be, do creatures get a Will save VS the initial blindness? Or are they ALWAYS blind until the end of their turn when they can Will save vs the blindness? I assume since the "Save" line doesn't say "(see text)" that means they get an immediate save VS the blindness, AND an extra save at the end of each turn.
I know it isn't a burst effect, i was just trying to explain it.
I am pretty sure it's either option C or A (i personally like C).
A) Effect hits just once, but everything that got hit stays glittery for the duration. (IE: walking into the area after it's gone off has no effect)
That is the correct answer. If the effect lingered, and could effect other creatures that enter the area, the spell would be an Emanation, not a Spread.
Burst, Emanation, or Spread: Most spells that affect an area function as a burst, an emanation, or a spread. In each case, you select the spell's point of origin and measure its effect from that point.A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can't see. It can't affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don't extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst's area defines how far from the point of origin the spell's effect extends.
An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. Most emanations are cones or spheres.
A spread spell extends out like a burst but can turn corners. You select the point of origin, and the spell spreads out a given distance in all directions. Figure the area the spell effect fills by taking into account any turns the spell effect takes.
The above quote from the PRD is found on page 214 of the Core Rulebook, under Area. The only type of Area spell that effects creatures entering the area after the initial cast is an Emanation, which Glitterdust is not. The magic only effects those in the area at the initial casting, but those effects persist on those creatures for 1 round/level.
I must say, the various cloud and fog spells (Obscuring Mist, Cloudkill and so on) were part of my confusion. I was sure those were spread spells. But they are not. They just say "Area: cloud spreads in 20-ft. radius" so they are not really spreads and glitterdust shouldn't affect creature entereing the area after the cast (unlike cloudkill).
I must say, the various cloud and fog spells (Obscuring Mist, Cloudkill and so on) were part of my confusion. I was sure those were spread spells. But they are not. They just say "Area: cloud spreads in 20-ft. radius" so they are not really spreads and glitterdust shouldn't affect creature entereing the area after the cast (unlike cloudkill).
Prepare to be more confused... Obscuring Mist and Cloudkill are not actually Area spells, despite effecting an area. They are Effect spells. (notice the bold word below their listed range. It says "Effect", not "Area".) Means technically, they are not area spells.
But they are Spread spells. Notice how it says " cloud spreads in 20-ft. radius" Makes them Effect Spread spells, not Area Spread spells. Not that that actually changes much. You just have to remember that Area spells and Effect spells follow slightly different rules. An Effect spell can persist over several rounds, but only Area spells that are also Emanations can persist over time.
Black Tentacles (Area spread) attack anyone who enters the area. River of Wind (Area line) has a duration and effects anything that enters the area. Sirocco (Area cylinder) sticks around. Incendiary Cloud (Area cloud spread) hits everything inside the cloud.
I think the problem with that rule reading is that, while it says that emanations continue to radiate from the point of origin, it doesn't say that spreads have to be instant.
Every creature within the area of the spell is the target of a combat maneuver check made to grapple each round at the beginning of your turn, including the round that black tentacles is cast.[\quote]
A creature that begins its turn wholly or partially within a river of wind must make a Fortitude save or be pushed 20 feet...In addition, the white-hot embers within the cloud deal 6d6 points of fire damage to everything within the cloud on your turn each round.Black Tentacles, River of Wind, and Incendiary Cloud all specifically say they last multiple rounds, and so would be exceptions.
While Sirocco makes no specific mention of effecting those that enter the area in later rounds, so by a strict reading of it, the wind itself and the fire damage is only instantaneous. The only thing that lasts for the duration is the fatigue caused.
Your quoting got all borked, so there might be something in your reply I've missed.
Black Tentacles, River of Wind, and Incendiary Cloud all specifically say they last multiple rounds, and so would be exceptions.
Sleet Storm doesn't mention it, other than the Area cylinder and Duration.
Sirocco makes no specific mention of effecting those that enter the area in later rounds, so by a strict reading of it, the wind itself and the fire damage is only instantaneous. The only thing that lasts for the duration is the fatigue caused.
Anyway, I can't find anything that says the only lasting Area effect is an emanation, other than the definition of an emanation. It doesn't say only emanations can last, and how else would the following make any sense?
Subjects, Effects, and Areas: "If the spell affects an area, then the spell stays with that area for its duration. Creatures become subject to the spell when they enter the area and are no longer subject to it when they leave."