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I searched for this, and think I have my answers, but I like to double check, just to make sure Im understanding the situation before I rule on it.
So:
1) Armored Kilt is not legal for society play, cause it has no stat block in the AA, and hasnt been reprinted in anything else PFS legal yet.
2)An Armored Kilt may be added to a light or medium armor, increasing its weight category by 1, but may not be added to a heavy armor, as there arent "Super Heavy" armors.
3) Once the kilt is added to the armor, it is considered part of the armor itself, and therefore cannot be enchanted seperately, as its now all one item.
Is all of that correct?
Suggestions on handling applying an armored kilt to a masterwork or mithral armor please? Do you need to pay the mwk cost or mithral cost for the kilt alone, or would it still be the normal price, since the rest of the armor is already masterwork/ mithral?
Point 1 and 2 are correct.
I am unsure about point 3 and would like clarification.
3) Once the kilt is added to the armor, it is considered part of the armor itself, and therefore cannot be enchanted seperately, as its now all one item.
Is all of that correct?
Suggestions on handling applying an armored kilt to a masterwork or mithral armor please? Do you need to pay the mwk cost or mithral cost for the kilt alone, or would it still be the normal price, since the rest of the armor is already masterwork/ mithral?
The fuzzy bits.
I asked the same question on #3, with no answer. But because you can remove the Kilt at any time, I would say it is not "part of" the armor anymore. Some people say it works like the armored coat, and which ever part of armor has the better magic wins, and the other one does not work. So you either get the magic from the kilt or the armor, but not both. We know for sure that the magic armor bonuses would not stack. I'm inclined to think the magic properties of each armor would show, as long as they are both different bonuses.
As for the MW / Mirthral, you would have to buy them separate, BUT I do not think you would loose any magic from the armor, if the kilt was not masterwork.
All the kilt is really doing is giving you more armor on your upper legs, and protecting your, um, 13.
Just to point out - these kinds of questions are probably why the Armor Kilts were quietly taken out back and put out of their misery.
seriously... AGAIN. do people even know what a search box is for? it's not like it's hidden. it's in the upper right hand corner of the screen. Its a white box with the word SEARCH above it. you type words into it, submit it, and it gives a list of threads containing those words. If i recall correctly i even bumped a good one up by replying in it recently just so people would stop asking the same questions. while i dont think ALL your questions are answered there, some are.
seriously... AGAIN. do people even know what a search box is for? it's not like it's hidden. it's in the upper right hand corner of the screen. Its a white box with the word SEARCH above it.
Wow, that was classless and unnecessary. Good breeding, there.
Allow me to quote the first four words in the original post:
"I searched for this ..."
Perhaps next time, you might actually read the post written by the person you're attacking, before you simply post whatever snarky diarrhea your mind has decided to expel. Thanks!
As to the original post: I am also eagerly awaiting an answer to point #3.
I searched for "snarky diarrhea" and this is the only post containing those two words.
As to the original post: I am also eagerly awaiting an answer to point #3.
Use the search fu then to post in the thread already about the topic.
Anyways more search fu will reveal that the answer to #3 is that it is now a part of the armor and cannot be enhanced separately.
So it isn't:
Armor:
Breastplate +1
Armored Kilt +1
but:
Armor:
Breastplate with armored kilt +1
As to the original post: I am also eagerly awaiting an answer to point #3.
Use the search fu then to post in the thread already about the topic.
Anyways more search fu will reveal that the answer to #3 is that it is now a part of the armor and cannot be enhanced separately.
So it isn't:
Armor:
Breastplate +1
Armored Kilt +1but:
Armor:
Breastplate with armored kilt +1
But that isn't exactly right. The item says that can be warn separate. This would mean it is not part of the original armor, and could be removed.
An armored kilt can be worn separately as light armor, or it can be added to other suits of light or medium armor.
I do agree on your math for pluses and things. The questions still remains on the other magical bonuses. I don't agree with RunebladeX, and his comparison to the armored coat, as seen here, because it is not the same. The coat covers most of the upper half of the user, while a kilt covers the lower bits.
I don't think anyone is ever going to really agree on this, and I say we all just ban the entire damn thing all together. OR give it a body slot and be done with it. Make the darn thing a belt or something.
But that isn't exactly right. The item says that can be warn separate. This would mean it is not part of the original armor, and could be removed.An armored kilt can be worn separately as light armor, or it can be added to other suits of light or medium armor.I do agree on your math for pluses and things. The questions still remains on the other magical bonuses. I don't agree with RunebladeX, and his comparison to the armored coat, as seen here, because it is not the same. The coat covers most of the upper half of the user, while a kilt covers the lower bits.
I don't think anyone is ever going to really agree on this, and I say we all just ban the entire damn thing all together. OR give it a body slot and be done with it. Make the darn thing a belt or something.
Check your quote -- "can be" doesn't mean it always is.
Look like I said do your search fu -- it's from JJ not myself (iirc -- might have been jb).
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seriously... AGAIN. do people even know what a search box is for? it's not like it's hidden. it's in the upper right hand corner of the screen. Its a white box with the word SEARCH above it. you type words into it, submit it, and it gives a list of threads containing those words. If i recall correctly i even bumped a good one up by replying in it recently just so people would stop asking the same questions. while i dont think ALL your questions are answered there, some are.
It's trolls like you that make the internet an annoying place.
Thank you, dumbpaladin, for the defense.
Thanks for the input guys. I think I have enough info on it to let me rule one way or another in my game.
If you wish to continue the conversation, though, feel free, lol.
seriously... AGAIN. do people even know what a search box is for? it's not like it's hidden. it's in the upper right hand corner of the screen. Its a white box with the word SEARCH above it. you type words into it, submit it, and it gives a list of threads containing those words. If i recall correctly i even bumped a good one up by replying in it recently just so people would stop asking the same questions. while i dont think ALL your questions are answered there, some are.It's trolls like you that make the internet an annoying place.
Thank you, dumbpaladin, for the defense.
Thanks for the input guys. I think I have enough info on it to let me rule one way or another in my game.
If you wish to continue the conversation, though, feel free, lol.
No problem! *salute*
I am glad to hear you found an answer that works for you ... I have to admit I wouldn't let a player wear a +5 kilt and a +5 suit of armor. Enhancement bonuses shouldn't stack, even if given an opportunity to do so. But I have no problems with a DM deciding to let someone do the above, either.
@ godsDMit
I apologize - i was in the wrong. i was having a bad day that day. It just gets frustrating when you try to find threads relating to a topic and there's so many threads that could have been compounded and you have to go through threads upon threads to find an answer to something. i think that night i actually found the answer i was seeking after 2 hours of search-foo. Then I seen your post and i thought to myself "didnt i just bump a 2 year old post about armored kilts up 2 days ago?" And it just hit a nerve. again i apologize. whats even worse is that once threads go to archives links dont even work, or they dont work for me. which makes finding things even harder.
as a peace offering you probably found this thread but i will give you the link.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/armoredKiltQuestions1fx3h&page=1&source=search#0
Point 3 has never officially been answered, SKR gave his opinion on the matter but i disagree with it. You can find my handling of it there and i think it answers your questions about on how to handle masterwork and the like. Since there's no official ruling on it you can make your own ruling or use mine, whatever suits your liking.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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@ Dumb Paladin: I'd be more than happy to let them wear +5 armor +5 enchanted kilt IMC Enhancement bonuses don't stack. ;-)
I believe the main concern has always been along the lines of the character having, say +5 Ghost Touch chain shirt and a +1 Moderate fortification, spell resistance (13) armored kilt. That would be effectively +14 worth of bonuses, costing the same as +10. An extreme example, but it got really silly in 3.x with Oriental Adventures (Armor, Dastana*, the funny armored skirt I can't remember)
@RunebladeX, not to make your day worse, but I can't seem to get your link to work.
*
To be a little pedantic... it says it can be added, not that you can remove it once added. I'm of the camp that thinks breastplate + armored kilt becomes a single "item" once you put them both on. Is it realistic? Not really. Is it more balanced? Definitely.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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To be a little pedantic... it says it can be added, not that you can remove it once added. I'm of the camp that thinks breastplate + armored kilt becomes a single "item" once you put them both on. Is it realistic? Not really. Is it more balanced? Definitely.
To add to the pedantry... If you buy an adamantine armoured kilt (light armor) and add it to a normal chain shirt, does it then give DR/2? (Since the whole thing is medium armor now) ;-) Clearly I'd say no, but does it give DR/1 as for light armor?
Some people say it works like the armored coat, and which ever part of armor has the better magic wins, and the other one does not work. So you either get the magic from the kilt or the armor, but not both. We know for sure that the magic armor bonuses would not stack. I'm inclined to think the magic properties of each armor would show, as long as they are both different bonuses.
RAW (and probably RAI), you only get one "slot" for magical armor (see "Magic Items on the Body" in magic items. Kilt is armor (can be worn separately), suit of armor is armor. The magic on either can function separately - but you only get one at once (and that would be enhancement bonus AND properties).
To add to the pedantry... If you buy an adamantine armoured kilt (light armor) and add it to a normal chain shirt, does it then give DR/2? (Since the whole thing is medium armor now) ;-) Clearly I'd say no, but does it give DR/1 as for light armor?
The only things that are listed as adding when putting on an armored kilt is the AC, and upping the level of armor (light to med, med to heavy). Since it doesn't say you get any of the DR, you don't get it. The only weirdness comes in when you have say, an adamantine chain shirt (light) and add a kilt. I say you still only retain the DR/1 since that is all you paid for, and since you can't add to the shirt once its made, you can't increase it.
@ Dumb Paladin: I'd be more than happy to let them wear +5 armor +5 enchanted kilt IMC Enhancement bonuses don't stack. ;-)
I believe the main concern has always been along the lines of the character having, say +5 Ghost Touch chain shirt and a +1 Moderate fortification, spell resistance (13) armored kilt. That would be effectively +14 worth of bonuses, costing the same as +10. An extreme example, but it got really silly in 3.x with Oriental Adventures (Armor, Dastana*, the funny armored skirt I can't remember)
@RunebladeX, not to make your day worse, but I can't seem to get your link to work.
*** spoiler omitted **
Bleh, i wish paizo would fix archived addresses with a way to actually make them work!
if you search "Armored Kilt Questions" it will be the thread created as "Wed, Jun 23, 2010, 08:05 AM by Joachim" it has some good answers by Sean K. Reanolds there. Some i disagree with and i will repeat my post here so everyone can see it easily. It should clear up all the issues people have but still keep it balanced however. This is my handling of the armored kilt however and hence homebrew. BUT, there is no OFFICAL Errata....
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I think This link will work.
(when you pull up a thread via the search, copy in the URL from the thread title, not the search result)
I do agree with all your points there, actually. Doesn't solve the 'adamantine armor/normal skirt, or adamantine skirt/normal armor' question.
i had a player interested in adding an armor kilt to his magical armor later on in his career path. he's a rogue now and will be taking fighter levels later.
this thread is old but it does have some opinions by SR,(i don't take developer posts as raw unless they back it up with errata). I still see some newer threads on armored kilts from time to time so maybe if i throw in a newer post it will point people in the right direction.
If your of the type that takes developer comments as RAW then consider the case closed. but, I disagree with a small aspect of SR's ruling. I think the rules as written already cover the armored kilt pretty well.
This is why i disagree and how i have ruled it.
there is already rules for armor bonuses and that they do not stack. if you wear multiple sets of armor,i couldn't find the ruling, but im pretty sure it used to be only the top layer counted for properties and you use the highest armor bonus of all the armors worn.
i did find under the APG under armored coat- If worn over other armor, use the better AC bonus and worse value in all other categories; an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor. The only magic effects that apply are those worn on top.
this seems to reinforce those rules but it may also bend them to in the armored coats favor to "override" the normal rules. Since an armored kilt is not technically under neath the armor i still think in the case if actual armor is worn it would be SECONDARY protection. And thus none of it's magical properties would function. The same as wearing 3 magical rings.
It also states under the armored kilt that it can be added to an existing suit of armor and it increases the suit of armors base AC by 1, and that is a special property of the kilt. It's pretty clear in this case. It doesn't matter WHAT the kilt has been enchanted with as per the armor it only raises the suit of armor its added to by 1, it doesn't say add the kilts AC bonus to the suit of armor.
This just makes everything simple and to summarize-
1) A +5 armored kilt is still an armor bonus and thus does not stack with armor, per the armored kilt description it will only raises a suit of armors AC by 1 when combined with it.
2) The armored kilt already states what effects take place when combined with a suit of armor such as armor category increase,ACP, weight, and max DEX bonus.
3) When dealing with multiple armor properties such as "+5 Ghost Touch chain shirt and a +1 Moderate fortification, spell resistance (13) armored kilt." It would be best to use the armored coat example of "The only magic effects that apply are those worn on top." Since a kilt is underneath (or secondary if you prefer that term) in this case the armor would function as a +5 Ghost Touch chain shirt with an AC boost of 1 from the armored kilt. If the player wants the armored kilt to be primary protection then don't attach such a kilt to armor.
4) The armored Kilt is an add-on option. It's not meant to be a "break the system, stack 2 suits of armors to cheat the magic item slot limit".
*) Now i dont think it would be game breaking of letting a light suit of adamantine armor be combined with an adamantine kilt to make the suit of combined armor a medium suit of adamantine DR 2 armor. afterall, it is Medium armor- even for proficiency. It's not going to be any cheaper to purchase in this manner, though you could buy it in chunks and upgrade a light suit to medium.
*) As i stated in the other post i adamantly believe an armored kilt should have the option of being removed and added to suits of armor freely.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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*) Now i dont think it would be game breaking of letting a light suit of adamantine armor be combined with an adamantine kilt to make the suit of combined armor a medium suit of adamantine DR 2 armor. afterall, it is Medium armor- even for proficiency. It's not going to be any cheaper to purchase in this manner, though you could buy it in chunks and upgrade a light suit to medium.
*) As i stated in the other post i adamantly believe an armored kilt should have the option of being removed and added to suits of armor freely.
But would you allow a normal armoured kilt to change a adamantine chain shirt's DR/1 to DR/2? I'd say no, because corner cases make bad law as they say.
I do agree on the kilt point (and actually think this could make an enchanted armored kilt valuable if you look at it as it doesn't work with that +1 chain shirt you've been wearing for levels 3-6, but will work with the non-magical adamantine chain shirt.)
Now would you use the over/under rule, or the most poweful rule? In other words, if I've a +5 ghost touch chain shirt (+8 bonus) and a +1 heavy fortification, spell resistance (17) kilt (+10 bonus) would you rule the shirt's bonus would work (being 'over' the kilt) or would the kilt (being more powerful than the shirt).
Yes I know we're talking house rulings here, I'm curious about your thoughts on the matter.
(aside, this solves my 'vambrace as shield' dilema. Shield would be on top of vambrace, so vambrace doesn't work. Because both are needed to function for pluses, no need to worry about the other arm)
*) Now i dont think it would be game breaking of letting a light suit of adamantine armor be combined with an adamantine kilt to make the suit of combined armor a medium suit of adamantine DR 2 armor. afterall, it is Medium armor- even for proficiency. It's not going to be any cheaper to purchase in this manner, though you could buy it in chunks and upgrade a light suit to medium.
*) As i stated in the other post i adamantly believe an armored kilt should have the option of being removed and added to suits of armor freely.
But would you allow a normal armoured kilt to change a adamantine chain shirt's DR/1 to DR/2? I'd say no, because corner cases make bad law as they say.
I do agree on the kilt point (and actually think this could make an enchanted armored kilt valuable if you look at it as it doesn't work with that +1 chain shirt you've been wearing for levels 3-6, but will work with the non-magical adamantine chain shirt.)
Now would you use the over/under rule, or the most poweful rule? In other words, if I've a +5 ghost touch chain shirt (+8 bonus) and a +1 heavy fortification, spell resistance (17) kilt (+10 bonus) would you rule the shirt's bonus would work (being 'over' the kilt) or would the kilt (being more powerful than the shirt).
Yes I know we're talking house rulings here, I'm curious about your thoughts on the matter.
(aside, this solves my 'vambrace as shield' dilema. Shield would be on top of vambrace, so vambrace doesn't work. Because both are needed to function for pluses, no need to worry about the other arm)
"But would you allow a normal armoured kilt to change a adamantine chain shirt's DR/1 to DR/2? I'd say no, because corner cases make bad law as they say."
No i would not either. This would open up abuse that i would nip before it started. If this was allowed then a character could add an adamantine kilt to celestial armor or mithral armor to get the benefits of mithral AND adamantine, and that is against the spirit of the game i feel. The ONLY cases i might allow (and i'm not saying i currently do) would be adamantine suit/adamantine kilt or Dragon hide suit/dragon hide kilt.
Now a kilt that added curtain bonuses might be a nice SPECIFIC armor created by a GM for an arc such as "Runeblades Kilt of superiority" but the cost of an item would be extremely high as it would be a non body slot item function and would be magic not material in nature.
"Now would you use the over/under rule, or the most poweful rule? In other words, if I've a +5 ghost touch chain shirt (+8 bonus) and a +1 heavy fortification, spell resistance (17) kilt (+10 bonus) would you rule the shirt's bonus would work (being 'over' the kilt) or would the kilt (being more powerful than the shirt)."
For simplicity and to prevent abuse i would simply do over/under. Because if you do most powerful your opening up a can of worms. Your going to end up with the player who gets hit by a ghost but insists his Ghost touch armor should kick in even though it's a weaker armor. This would be allowing a player to actually circumvent the +10 cap rule, and in my opinion against the spirit of the game. What good would a +10 cap be if other properties kicked in when you needed them?
This is all my opinion and houserules. what you do in your game is your choice. while the Kilt is an option it shouldn't be superior to all other armors and allow players to break armor rules already in place. The kilt already has an odd AC boost benefit when added to a suit of armor. If you make the kilt better than it actually is your going to have every character and NPC running around like there all from Scotland ;)
Price of adamantine for chain shirt: 5000 gp.
price of adamantine for kilt (assuming it counts as light): 5000 gp.
price for medium adamantine: 10000 gp.
Price for heavy adamantine: 15000 gp.
The math works. Adamantine armor plus adamantine kilt equals the price for adamantine armor of the next weight category up. As long as both are the same material it should be fine.
That being said I don't allow "bonus" armor pieces like kilts and dastana, I find it's too abusable. But YMMV.
Cheers!