I have a bard in my group that whenever I introduce a scenario, he wants to go "Ok I do my <x> check and ...". I'm sitting there thinking, it is in the other town and half of what I had planned happens en-route. What do I do about this? When I get him in the flow of things he's a good RPer, but things like that really break some of the verisimilitude that I'm trying to build.
I have a bard in my group that whenever I introduce a scenario, he wants to go "Ok I do my <x> check and ...". I'm sitting there thinking, it is in the other town and half of what I had planned happens en-route. What do I do about this? When I get him in the flow of things he's a good RPer, but things like that really break some of the verisimilitude that I'm trying to build.
I don't quite understand your problem. What do you mean by "Ok I do my <x> check and ...", Knowledge, perception, does he really say "x"? What does this have to do with plans enroute?
I have a bard in my group that whenever I introduce a scenario, he wants to go "Ok I do my <x> check and ...". I'm sitting there thinking, it is in the other town and half of what I had planned happens en-route. What do I do about this? When I get him in the flow of things he's a good RPer, but things like that really break some of the verisimilitude that I'm trying to build.I don't quite understand your problem. What do you mean by "Ok I do my <x> check and ...", Knowledge, perception, does he really say "x"? What does this have to do with plans enroute?
The issue is that he's effectively jumping from where things were left off and to what's ahead without consideration to the intervening steps. Usually if I place things in another city, it's for a reason. In an exaggerated example, it's like telling him "you need to go kill this dragon in his lair" and he goes "I roll initiative"
So what you are complaining about is the fact that one of your players is using a core class feature. A Bard is the ultimate skill monkey. What I would do is instead of complaining use it. Feed the party information through him.
For example if they are searching for a lost relic let give him a write up of the item and its history. Make him role play giving the information to the rest of the party. Use rumors to guide the party where you want them to be. Remember that a Bard is the equivalent of the modern media. Think of the Bard as an early version of a Google.
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So what you're saying is that he wants to, for example, make a Diplomacy check before he role-plays the interaction?
As a player, I'd never do this--but as a GM, I don't think it might be so bad. It depends on his style of play. If he wants to roll the check first, and he gets a one, then he can role-play the diplomacy terribly; if he gets a 20, he can role-play as charmingly as possible.
If this bothers you as GM, taking the player aside and trying to work out a compromise is always the best answer.
I have a bard in my group that whenever I introduce a scenario, he wants to go "Ok I do my <x> check and ...". I'm sitting there thinking, it is in the other town and half of what I had planned happens en-route. What do I do about this? When I get him in the flow of things he's a good RPer, but things like that really break some of the verisimilitude that I'm trying to build.
Don't tell them, metagame, what the scenarios is. Introduce in-game the hook and let them play it out. What seems to be the problem is that you are starting in the metagame at the start of the session and he is just responding in the metagame, taking his queue from you.
You may have to step into the metagame to say: "This is a hint, a hook, nudge nudge" but don't tell them "The next scenario takes place in Splodge Crossing and you will be entering the Caverns of Peril" because that's an open invitation to: "I check for traps at the entrance!" That introduction does not make clear that they aren't at the entrance of the Caverns of Peril any more than it says they are.
If you start the game in an in-game environment, setting out where they are and introducing the scenario that way, the players will follow you there.
I'm inclined to agree with Mysterious Stranger on this one (if I'm reading you correctly). I'm currently playing a high skill character too, and one focused on all the knowledge skills. We've taken it as a pretty standard way of allowing the GM to give us all the information we need about relevant areas, important NPCs or artifacts, notable historical events, etc. Without my character, it would be kind of hard to explain why our characters knew that we needed to go to the Plain of Lances in Spaartha to gain information on the hero Arturo (who is from Aligindel and was lost in Rothgorod).
So, after the GM lets us know where we are starting things for this adventure and drops a plot hook on us, I usually roll a couple of knowledge checks (usually History, Nobility, Arcana and Religion) and the GM then doles out some additional information about some specifics and then we make a plan as a group about what we want to do. When I roll low, the GM gives us a little less information, and when I roll really high on a relevant check, he gives us a clue that points us in the right direction.
I like malebranche's suggestion of rolling skills first and then having the players roleplay the result that they got. This keeps some of the verisimilitude intact. I know it's always frustrating to have prepared a really good bluff, play it out and then end up rolling low on your bluff check. That city guard should have totally believed that story! Stupid dice... But I digress.
Basically, don't be afraid to let the dice direct some parts of the adventure. I mean, they direct the course of a combat, so why not non-combat scenarios too? Nothing says the adventure doesn't start until after you leave the tavern. Why not let it start while they are still holding their mugs of ale?
I don't quite understand your problem. What do you mean by "Ok I do my <x> check and ...", Knowledge, perception, does he really say "x"? What does this have to do with plans enroute?The issue is that he's effectively jumping from where things were left off and to what's ahead without consideration to the intervening steps. Usually if I place things in another city, it's for a reason. In an exaggerated example, it's like telling him "you need to go kill this dragon in his lair" and he goes "I roll initiative"
Thanks, that is a better explanation.
Standard Answer 1;
Have you tried talking to the player about this habit. Maturely, 1 on 1, talk to him about this. Maybe he feels he is doing you a favor by jumping to the end instead of going off on a tangent (like so many groups will do). Ask him why he does this, but keep it polite and don't accuse him.
"I have talked to him, but he keeps doing it"
In this case, when he says, "I want to do x (initiative, for instance)", you say "You aren't there yet. So how do you get there?"
I seemed to have misunderstood what you were asking about. If the character is trying to skip ahead then just use the checks for something else. For example if he rolls for initiative, then have another encounter. After a couple of times he will probably get the idea.
If not then try taking what he says literally. Start the session in a tavern and give the players your normal lead in. When he jumps ahead let him but don't let him take any other actions. The first time he gets to the dragons lair starving and without his equipment it may get the message through.
Another way to correct the problem would be to end the previous game without giving a chance to reequip. Starting the game from where it was left off will also give you a chance to recap and finalize things. Give the lead in and then ask if there is anything any one wants to do before leaving. Once everyone else gets their purchases and prep done then start in on the adventure right away by going to the first encounter.
I have a bard in my group that whenever I introduce a scenario, he wants to go "Ok I do my <x> check and ...". I'm sitting there thinking, it is in the other town and half of what I had planned happens en-route. What do I do about this? When I get him in the flow of things he's a good RPer, but things like that really break some of the verisimilitude that I'm trying to build.Don't tell them, metagame, what the scenarios is. Introduce in-game the hook and let them play it out. What seems to be the problem is that you are starting in the metagame at the start of the session and he is just responding in the metagame, taking his queue from you.
You may have to step into the metagame to say: "This is a hint, a hook, nudge nudge" but don't tell them "The next scenario takes place in Splodge Crossing and you will be entering the Caverns of Peril" because that's an open invitation to: "I check for traps at the entrance!" That introduction does not make clear that they aren't at the entrance of the Caverns of Peril any more than it says they are.
If you start the game in an in-game environment, setting out where they are and introducing the scenario that way, the players will follow you there.
This makes a lot of sense and explains the times he didn't do it.
sometimes, Im just snarky. When the Dm says "you see a tall, dark showdy figure emerge from a doorway.."
I interupt by saying, I kill it.
But wait, No, I kill it.
I'm just being snarky, or she will say there is a monster and ill say I dont want to fight the monster, just here for the treasure, so Ill be packing away the stuff and the monster can sit tight.
The end result is the Dm not letting me get away with what im trying to jump the gun on. "Well on your way to pick through the monsters treasure trove he takes a swat at you with his claw"
Really? the nerve of him! how violent!
Or if on the way to meet the mayor, and I just say, can't we cut to the chase and just kill him. The Dm gives me the evil eye, hes' not evil and hasnt done anything wrong. Fine Ill kill him and plant some evidence of wrong doing. Well you haven't gotten there yet, are you discussing this plan in open on the city street?
Ummm, well... no, im skulking about the shadows muttering it to my self...
I could roll all the dice I want during this encounter, (and I often do just to test out which one I think is "hot') but without a catalyst, the roll means nothing.
I can't smite it with my mace if it is off in the mounts, and I can't intimidate figments of my imagination (well I suppose i could) but if the target of the roll isnt being interacted with, who cares what the roll came out as.
I hate it when i roll a 20 when I'm just fidgeting, I feel it got 'wasted'.
I agree that it is more of a communication issue than anything. When players hear something described, they assume that thing can be interacted with. They don’t know that the GM wants to play-out everything in between.
sometimes, Im just snarky. When the Dm says "you see a tall, dark showdy figure emerge from a doorway.."
I interupt by saying, I kill it.But wait, No, I kill it.
I'm just being snarky, or she will say there is a monster and ill say I dont want to fight the monster, just here for the treasure, so Ill be packing away the stuff and the monster can sit tight.
The end result is the Dm not letting me get away with what im trying to jump the gun on. "Well on your way to pick through the monsters treasure trove he takes a swat at you with his claw"
Really? the nerve of him! how violent!Or if on the way to meet the mayor, and I just say, can't we cut to the chase and just kill him. The Dm gives me the evil eye, hes' not evil and hasnt done anything wrong. Fine Ill kill him and plant some evidence of wrong doing. Well you haven't gotten there yet, are you discussing this plan in open on the city street?
Ummm, well... no, im skulking about the shadows muttering it to my self...
I could roll all the dice I want during this encounter, (and I often do just to test out which one I think is "hot') but without a catalyst, the roll means nothing.
I can't smite it with my mace if it is off in the mounts, and I can't intimidate figments of my imagination (well I suppose i could) but if the target of the roll isnt being interacted with, who cares what the roll came out as.
I hate it when i roll a 20 when I'm just fidgeting, I feel it got 'wasted'.
Are you undergoing therapy for that? If a player did this to me regularly they would find themselves uninvited from the game - probably by demand of my other players!
Are you undergoing therapy for that? If a player did this to me regularly they would find themselves uninvited from the game - probably by demand of my other players!sometimes, Im just snarky. When the Dm says "you see a tall, dark showdy figure emerge from a doorway.."
I interupt by saying, I kill it.But wait, No, I kill it.
I'm just being snarky, or she will say there is a monster and ill say I dont want to fight the monster, just here for the treasure, so Ill be packing away the stuff and the monster can sit tight.
The end result is the Dm not letting me get away with what im trying to jump the gun on. "Well on your way to pick through the monsters treasure trove he takes a swat at you with his claw"
Really? the nerve of him! how violent!Or if on the way to meet the mayor, and I just say, can't we cut to the chase and just kill him. The Dm gives me the evil eye, hes' not evil and hasnt done anything wrong. Fine Ill kill him and plant some evidence of wrong doing. Well you haven't gotten there yet, are you discussing this plan in open on the city street?
Ummm, well... no, im skulking about the shadows muttering it to my self...
I could roll all the dice I want during this encounter, (and I often do just to test out which one I think is "hot') but without a catalyst, the roll means nothing.
I can't smite it with my mace if it is off in the mounts, and I can't intimidate figments of my imagination (well I suppose i could) but if the target of the roll isnt being interacted with, who cares what the roll came out as.
I hate it when i roll a 20 when I'm just fidgeting, I feel it got 'wasted'.
the point is you can say whatever you want, it doesn't effect anything until it's time to act. Sometimes when we aren't even playing yet. I'll interrupt a conversation with an "i kill it".
Interpretation : when are we starting?
the point is you can say whatever you want, it doesn't effect anything until it's time to act. Sometimes when we aren't even playing yet. I'll interrupt a conversation with an "i kill it".
Interpretation : when are we starting?
I can see where you are coming from, but that isn't what the OP is saying is happening, so I don't see how it's relevant.
I can see where you are coming from, but that isn't what the OP is saying is happening, so I don't see how it's relevant.the point is you can say whatever you want, it doesn't effect anything until it's time to act. Sometimes when we aren't even playing yet. I'll interrupt a conversation with an "i kill it".
Interpretation : when are we starting?
how is that not relevant? the OP says his player says he 'does' stuff before it's time.
Ie: there is a great dragon that lives up in the mountains, "I got a 12 for initiative" , thats pretty much the same as "I kill it"... isn't it?
I can see where you are coming from, but that isn't what the OP is saying is happening, so I don't see how it's relevant.the point is you can say whatever you want, it doesn't effect anything until it's time to act. Sometimes when we aren't even playing yet. I'll interrupt a conversation with an "i kill it".
Interpretation : when are we starting?how is that not relevant? the OP says his player says he 'does' stuff before it's time.
Ie: there is a great dragon that lives up in the mountains, "I got a 12 for initiative" , thats pretty much the same as "I kill it"... isn't it?
No. You are interrupting to get people on track. He's interrupting (from what I can tell) because he assumes his character is just there and ready to fight. The DM is having to stop the game to explain that they aren't there yet.
I had this problem with a player in a Shadowrun game. He was a street samurai with wired reflexes.
Finally, I got fed up with it, and the next time he said 'I geek the mage' I told the rest of the players that his character had just pulled a gun and shot Mr. Johnson during negotiations for the job. They then had a big fight in the night club with Mr. Johnson's security guards, the other runners in the place, and the bartender and club security.
Never had the problem again. Two people had to make new characters though.
EDIT : Note, the player would always make an attack roll immediately after his 'Geek the Mage' response to the NPC.
I had this problem with a player in a Shadowrun game. He was a street samurai with wired reflexes.
Finally, I got fed up with it, and the next time he said 'I geek the mage' I told the rest of the players that his character had just pulled a gun and shot Mr. Johnson during negotiations for the job. They then had a big fight in the night club with Mr. Johnson's security guards, the other runners in the place, and the bartender and club security.
Never had the problem again. Two people had to make new characters though.
EDIT : Note, the player would always make an attack roll immediately after his 'Geek the Mage' response to the NPC.
Yes, it's an attention-getting technique. I'm a student teacher, and I'm getting this kind of thing a lot from children that think it's clever. They are generally 12-13 years old, though, so I can forgive them. When adults do it, I'm not so understanding.
No. You are interrupting to get people on track. He's interrupting (from what I can tell) because he assumes his character is just there and ready to fight. The DM is having to stop the game to explain that they aren't there yet.I can see where you are coming from, but that isn't what the OP is saying is happening, so I don't see how it's relevant.the point is you can say whatever you want, it doesn't effect anything until it's time to act. Sometimes when we aren't even playing yet. I'll interrupt a conversation with an "i kill it".
Interpretation : when are we starting?how is that not relevant? the OP says his player says he 'does' stuff before it's time.
Ie: there is a great dragon that lives up in the mountains, "I got a 12 for initiative" , thats pretty much the same as "I kill it"... isn't it?
Well, sometimes, that's true. My wife (the DM) can take a really long time to describe a thief or some other thing that is insanely obvious what it's doing or is.
She loves to read information to us that there is no way of us knowing, the information is there! we must know it!.So most of the time my "i kill it" is just jump starting things or saying, get on with it.
But sometimes I am being snarky, and it is clearly not time yet (like we aren't even there yet) and in that case, like i said, i could claim i got a 12 for initiative but it's not really relevant since we aren't there yet. Unless you have an abberant sorceror with really really long arms, you can't attack the critter yet, you aren't there. So, whatever the player says in the instant is actually, irrelevant, and is just an outburst, ignore it and continue.
I had a problem with a player like that (also liked to play Bards). He'd roll a Diplomacy check as soon as they were told to go talk to someone. I would respond with things like, "The Bard is now talking with his imaginary friend (who likes him very much). What are the rest of you going to do?" We just had fun with it and moved on.
I had a problem with a player like that (also liked to play Bards). He'd roll a Diplomacy check as soon as they were told to go talk to someone. I would respond with things like, "The Bard is now talking with his imaginary friend (who likes him very much). What are the rest of you going to do?" We just had fun with it and moved on.
OOOoo if I took the leadership feat could I get a follower with levels in imaginary friend? I've always been looking for a more useful more powerful unseen servant...
what's his alignment? if he's just a CN for example he might act on whim/instinct. I used to have a player like this, and a whole bunch of crazy $#!+ ended up happening to his character. In my scenario this was a lythari barbarian with a Int dumb stat of 5, and a Wis of 9. my approach was to play him amnesic as far as the player thought, but in reality he was a lobotomized specimen. Thus his name was Lobo, because of a small broken piece of tile he found when he first woke up.
I had a problem with a player like that (also liked to play Bards). He'd roll a Diplomacy check as soon as they were told to go talk to someone. I would respond with things like, "The Bard is now talking with his imaginary friend (who likes him very much). What are the rest of you going to do?" We just had fun with it and moved on.OOOoo if I took the leadership feat could I get a follower with levels in imaginary friend? I've always been looking for a more useful more powerful unseen servant...
Come to think of it, we had a guy in our group who was a Shadow Dancer and, for some reason, the other PCs decided to act like his summoned Shadow was just a figment of his imagination (even though its energy drain touch had been the deciding factor in many fights). They constantly referred to it as his imaginary friend and teased him incessantly. Good times.