Besides the errata fixes to the list, are there any resources that have added additional summons to the list?
If not then can you research a new spell with an alternative list approved by the GM?
The deity articles within the Adventure Paths usually include a small table of additions to the summon monster list, available specifically to members of that deity's clergy.
The deity articles within the Adventure Paths usually include a small table of additions to the summon monster list, available specifically to members of that deity's clergy.
I just noticed that now that you mentioned it. Iomedae (Council of Thieves 72), has additions to the basic list for her followers.
Having the additional bits for the specific deities is nice, but I've always found the concept of Summon Monster being limited to a specific (limited) list to be a major thematic obstacle to playing a conjurer wizard or a summoner, or any arcane-summoning themed character concept...
The Bestiary 2 contains a number of additional Outsider-type creatures, of varying alignment, following the "Outsider Family Template" of a CR 2, a CR 5-7, a CR 9-12, a CR 15-18, and a CR 20 creature. (This varies, but generally speaking, Outsider Families (Demon, Devil, Archon, Azata, Qlippoth, etc.) are all provided with a CR 2 and a CR 20 member.) In each case, the CR 2 members all seem suitable for targets of a Summon Monster III spell, but are not uniformly available by default to arcane casters (under RAW).
To an extent, I confess, this baffles me inasmuch as the Summon Monster spell seems to be written with the capability to use formulaic guidelines in place of lists, specifically with the blanket phrasing: "When you use a summoning spell to summon a creature with an alignment or elemental subtype, it is a spell of that type." This, along with the additional rules regarding templates, should allow for a more formulaic presentation of the Summon Monster lists that are less restrictive and more adaptable to the release of additional Bestiary creatures: Summon Monster 1: templated Animals up to CR 1/2; SM2: templated Animals and Outsiders of CR 1; SM3: templated Animals and Outsiders of CR 2; etc.
When I GM, this is what I typically do, and I do understand the justice in providing a list rather than a blanket formula in the interests of keeping players out of the bestiary, but I feel like it limits summoning-themed characters nevertheless.
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When I GM, this is what I typically do, and I do understand the justice in providing a list rather than a blanket formula in the interests of keeping players out of the bestiary, but I feel like it limits summoning-themed characters nevertheless.
Obviously, you never had that type of summoning player who lugged all the official MM's and three binders worth of 3PP material around, and proceeded to grind any combat to a halt as he furiously browsed his library for That One.
Only to have it veto'd by the DM, and repeat the process ad nauseam.
I also don't think that there are any additions other than the, previously mentioned, deities additions.
But i would like to see aditions to both summon monster and summon nature's ally lists.
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We've got something in the works. Not official of course, but its in the works.
Nice! I developed some (unofficial, of course) updated summons lists for both SM and SNA for use in the campaign in which I am a player. I did this in part because I felt that my Chaotic Good cleric didn't have a lot of choices in outsiders -- most of the outsiders on the standard lists are evil and/or lawful. So I included all of the aligned outsiders (Aeons, Proteans, and Agathions to give my cleric more choices, and of course the others so the GM could have more fun too). For natural creature types, I purposely omitted some from SM that I put on the SNA lists so that our druid wouldn't feel like he had a gimped SM.
When I GM, this is what I typically do, and I do understand the justice in providing a list rather than a blanket formula in the interests of keeping players out of the bestiary, but I feel like it limits summoning-themed characters nevertheless.
Obviously, you never had that type of summoning player who lugged all the official MM's and three binders worth of 3PP material around, and proceeded to grind any combat to a halt as he furiously browsed his library for That One.
Only to have it veto'd by the DM, and repeat the process ad nauseam.
Oh, on the contrary I have, as a direct result of this policy of expanding Summon Monster to a formulaic list rather than an explicit one. It happened once. After that session, I spoke with the player, and instituted a new rule that required the player to make knowledge checks to justify the character's awareness of "That One" before-hand as an explicit potential summon. In essence, we took a sidebar and had a nice old time where he would scour the Monster Manuals ahead of time, essentially compiling a list for his character specifically. I don't object to this process in general, as I think it expands on the flavor of the character - the player especially wanted one outsider that he didn't get, and decided to devote a week of in-game research to the subject the next time they hit a library. After that, I gave him that summon.
However, I prefer for players not to do this, so if a player doesn't want to compile an explicit list, they can simply make a Knowledge (Planes) or (Arcana) check at the time of casting and I'll tell them based on that result what they can summon. Usually by now, my players will give me a general idea of what they're looking for in a Summon, and I'll offer a cross-section of potentials based on their knowledge check and what they're looking for.
With the release of Pathfinder and the various alterations to make Player review of the Bestiary totally unnecessary, I find that having the PC make a skill check to determine what they are aware of (either explicitly beforehand or at the time of casting) is much more satisfying to my players (as it rewards ranks in Knowledge (Planes) more emphatically than just "the Erinyes is immune to XYZ") while at the same time keeping their delves into the Bestiary to a minimum.
I did this in part because I felt that my Chaotic Good cleric didn't have a lot of choices in outsiders -- most of the outsiders on the standard lists are evil and/or lawful.
+10 - CG clerics have *very* restricted Summonses based on the existing list compared to Lawful and/or Evil clerics.
We've got something in the works. Not official of course, but its in the works.
Just bought the Summoner app. Are you going to have this as part of your PFR app?