| Rolzup |
We're currently considering a new campaign, and looking at a variety of options to pursue. We're all agreed in our dislike of high-level play (things tend to slow to a crawl at a certain point, regardless of system), and the E6 rules are looking like increasingly likely choice.
(Most, I'm sure are familiar with this idea. For those who aren't, in brief: Level advancement stops at 6th level, with PCs spending XP from that point forward to buy new feats.)
Or maybe E8, stopping advancement at 8th level.
The current question is: 3.5 or Pathfinder?
The advantages of 3.5 are familiarity, and compatibility with all those tons of books that we've purchased.
But Pathfinder has been recommended, so I want to give that a look as well. But I have two questions:
1) Will E6 and/or E8 work with Pathfinder? I literally can't think of a reason why they wouldn't, but I'm not really familiar with the rule changes.
2) How well with some of 3.5's stranger character classes (Duskblade, Binder, the Bo9S classes, Factotum, Dragon Shaman, and so forth) mesh with Pathfinder, given the level cut-off?
It's entirely possible that we'll just use the 3.5 character creation rules with Pathfinder's system changes, but still -- it seems a question worth asking.
ShadowcatX
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I've been considering E8 Pathfinder for a while and I believe it will work very well. Many of the classes gain something "capstone like" at 8th level and so that feels like a good reward for having stayed pure but that's a bit more powerful than some people are comfortable with so I believe that E6 still has a larger following than E8 in pathfinder.
The other classes may need to be buffed a bit and will definitely need their skill list and hit dice converted but they should work just fine in Pathfinder.
| Rolzup |
Your only real concern with doing E8 as compared to E6 is that everyone gets access to 4th level spells. Really I see this as the deciding factor.
Well, the E6/E8 thing isn't much concern -- depends on the sort of campaign we want, and that's still up in the air. And I'm inclined to have a selection of higher-level spells available as (costly and time-consuming) Rituals in any case. Not freely available, mind, but they make for good treasure.
Helaman
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Its hitpoints, additional attacks for non pure BAB classes and 4th level spells as far as I feel concerned that stopping me from implementing E7/E8.
While 3.5 works better at E6 (3rd feat at 6th level), PF seems to work better at E7 (4th feat and some additional class feats including Barbarian Damage Resistance, Fighter bonuses to Armour use, etc) or, yes, even E8 (Wizard and Priest specialist/sphere bonuses).
I think the only suggestion I can give is to either limit BAB/HP and spell progression at 6th and allow class features to what ever limit you feel is feasable (7 or 8) or allow characters to buy class features as if buying a feat after 6th, so that a barbarian could spend their 5K xp on either a feat or to get their +1 DR for example.
| Kolokotroni |
1) Yes, there isnt anything that has changed to make pathfinder have an issue with E6/7/8 rules. In fact if you search there are several discussions on things like capstone feats and which of the 3 E's work best. Personally I think E7 is the best choice for pathfinder.
2) The ones you mention will work just fine with relatively minor asdjustments. Most of them have a handful of threads here with suggestions on how to adjust them, but for the most part they are ready to go.
As far as using the 3.5 creation rules with Pathfinder rules, I dont know how well that would work. Like I said, most of the 3.5 extra base classes need very little work, so if you are going to use pathfinder use pathfinder classes. Most 3.x options/spells are compatable with minimal work. My group still uses the complete series, the spell compendium, the magic item compendium, and the PHBII along side our pathfinder books and our pathfinder 3rd party material.
| MaxBarton |
Sorry I should have more appropriately answered your specific questions.
1. Should work fine with only minor work (namely if you want to work some feats up, etc.)
2. Depending on the specific class some will be stronger than others, but as Kolokotroni said, there have been several conversions made on the forums. From a roleplay perspective there shouldn't obviously be a problem.
I'm actually planning for my next game to be E6 myself. I think it's a great system and a great area of play.
| The Eel |
I have to throw in my vote for E7. Allows limited 4th level spell casting; give full BAB that extra attack; gives a lot of classes a nice cap like DR, more SA damage, etc. You can make quite a few of the 8th level abilities into feats, and, in fact, quite a few already are. What does a rogue get at 8th? A talent. There's already a feat for getting an extra talent.
Another nice thing about capping at 7th is that it eliminates +Stat items, which require CL 8th to create. No +AC item can be greater than +2, and no weapon have a more than +2, either. To create a +3 item, caster level has to be 3X the bonus, so CL 9th. Bracers of Armor are a little different, but those cap out at +3 anyway. Flaming, frost, etc are out the door too.
So E7 cuts out a lot that E8 doesn't, but allows you make most of 8th level abilities available through feat. It cuts down on the Christmas Tree Effect, gets rid of what turns a lot of games into equipment/item management/numbers crunching.
Why 7 over 6? 6th level is like 8th in a lot of ways. What most classes get at 6th is something that you can get with a feat anyway. There's very little, capstone-wise, at 6th. It does limit casting even further, but I feel with judicious use of GM oversight, 4th level casting isn't a problem.
One other thing to consider if you're going for 7 or 8 is that XP values and level progression have been inflated in PF, so the old 3.5 E6 XP/Feat level of 5,000 needs to be revised. You'll barely have time to play around with a new feat before you grab another. 5,000 xp will come quick, especially at 8th level. If you kept everything relative, from the rate you would gain 5,000 XP in 3.5 and converted the numbers to PF, at E8 you'd be looking at around 20,000 XP to earn a new feat.
| pobbes |
One other thing to consider if you're going for 7 or 8 is that XP values and level progression have been inflated in PF, so the old 3.5 E6 XP/Feat level of 5,000 needs to be revised. You'll barely have time to play around with a new feat before you grab another. 5,000 xp will come quick, especially at 8th level. If you kept everything relative, from the rate you would gain 5,000 XP in 3.5 and converted the numbers to PF, at E8 you'd be looking at around 20,000 XP to earn a new feat.
+1 for xp inflation to be noted.
Just a note about other books (ToB, ToM), Pathfinder has kind of upped the core classes to compete with those systems, but those two books in particular are always going to feel different since they were really test beds for 4e mechanics. Note: Pathfinder has new base classes of its own for you to explore. However, all the classes are still essentially balanced, so keeping other classes is fine. The biggest disconnect will be in classes from the 3.5 complete books which will feel alien compared to the others. PHB2 classes should be fine.
| Kolokotroni |
I love running my E6 game in Pathfinder. It plays like Pathfinder was made for it.
Mostly that was because pathfinder did a bunch of things to improve low level play and to give more interesting class abilities so you arent waiting multiple levels for your next thing. But I agree that Pathfinder is very good for the E6 concept.
| YawarFiesta |
What about giving the players Favored Class bonuses and a feat?
That way they will gain a marginally survivabilty bonus, an extra skill point or could build up thay alternate favorad class bonus from the APG.
Its to little for impacting inmmediatly, and would take a lot of play time for being noticeable.
Humbly,
Yawar
| Erik Freund RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16 |
@ the OP on "3.5 vs PF" in E6:
The tricky thing to navigate is what to do with Cleric Domains and Wizard Schools. Some Clerics get their 2nd domain ability at 6th, some get it at 8th. A similar problem exists on the Wizardly side.
Some people also argue that Sorcerers should get their 9th level Bloodline ability, or else they never develop the "feel" of the bloodline.
Helaman
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Some people also argue that Sorcerers should get their 9th level Bloodline ability, or else they never develop the "feel" of the bloodline.
I agree on the sorcerer thing but dont think the level 1 (or is it 3?) power should scale in E6 games... so a Fire Resistance of 5/ shouldnt become 10/ but I do think the level 9 piece is important to the feel.
I think the Domains and schools, Barbarian Damage resistance etc can be bought as if buying a feat after level 6, so instead of expending 5000xp to buy a feat, the Priest/Wizard can pick up a domain/school... I do think that a sorcerer should buy something off the level 7 feat list before being allowed to buy into the 9th level bloodline ability however.