Since imbue arrow relies on an attack roll like rays, can the spell get critical damage? Does it allow a reflex save to the target?
All rules for the spell imbued still apply, except the range.
Example: Imbued fireball. The fireball cannot crit. The AA can shoot at a specific target up to 10 range increments away. If he targets a specific individual, then the fireball's point of origin is one of the squares that that individual occupies, and everyone in the AoE get a reflex save. Alternatively, the AA could target the ground within 10 range increments.
Where does the book say imbue arrow relies on an attack roll? All it says is that you use the bow's range rather than the spell's range, and that it changes the center of the spell.
Where does the book say imbue arrow relies on an attack roll? All it says is that you use the bow's range rather than the spell's range, and that it changes the center of the spell.
He's talking about trying to hit someone with the arrow to deal damage. In this case an attack roll is required. This does make the GM have to decide how to handle a miss, since that fireball is going to go off no matter where that arrow lands, miss or hit.
He's talking about trying to hit someone with the arrow to deal damage. In this case an attack roll is required. This does make the GM have to decide how to handle a miss, since that fireball is going to go off no matter where that arrow lands, miss or hit.
But, there's nothing that says the arcane archer can both attack with an arrow (i.e., do arrow damage) and get the effect of the spell at the same time.
You're getting an enhanced spell placement effect, not a spell+attack effect.
He's talking about trying to hit someone with the arrow to deal damage. In this case an attack roll is required. This does make the GM have to decide how to handle a miss, since that fireball is going to go off no matter where that arrow lands, miss or hit.But, there's nothing that says the arcane archer can both attack with an arrow (i.e., do arrow damage) and get the effect of the spell at the same time.
You're getting an enhanced spell placement effect, not a spell+attack effect.
While I'll agree that it doesn't specifically say you CAN target a creature, the line "If the arrow misses, the spell is wasted" implies that you can. It doesn't unbalance the game, so I see no problem with it.
Ok first thing first, here is the imbue arrow ability:
At 2nd level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell's area is centered where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow's range rather than the spell's range. A spell cast in this way uses its standard casting time and the arcane archer can fire the arrow as part of the casting. The arrow must be fired during the round that the casting is completed or the spell is wasted. If the arrow misses, the spell is wasted.
Emphasis mine.
As you can see you can't place a ray spell in the arrow.Now about the whole attack thing.
I think that you have to make an attack roll, either at a target or at a specific point in the grid, either way if you fail the attack roll the spell doesn't activate. Now if you chose to target a creature there is a fair chance that the spell won't activate but in the case you target a specific point in the grid i am pretty sure that by the level you get that ability you will be succeeding at a 2+ on the die.
It think it is fairly obvious that you make an attack roll with the arrow, since it can miss, and as such the arrow should deal the normal damage.
This raises an issue, however...
Casting time: It states 'uses its standard casting time', while the choice of standard makes you think of a standard action, it seem to be the 'normal casting time of the spell'.
While it might not be cost-effective, it allows a ranger to use a metamagic rod (quicken) to gain an extra attack each round. The quickened spell will take a swift action, during which he fires an arrow. Doing it with arrow eruption might provide a whole lot of extra attacks.
While it might not be cost-effective, it allows a ranger to use a metamagic rod (quicken) to gain an extra attack each round. The quickened spell will take a swift action, during which he fires an arrow. Doing it with arrow eruption might provide a whole lot of extra attacks.
Yes he can but only if he has the quick draw feat AND at the start of his turn he is holding either the rod or his bow.
Since imbue arrow relies on an attack roll like rays, can the spell get critical damage? Does it allow a reflex save to the target?@Leo I get what you are saying, I wasn't talking about imbuing a ray, it just acts similar to a ray ie you miss it doesn't go off and takes an attack roll.
Oh.
Ok then, i am sorry i read your post wrong.Now to answer your question, since area spells (for example fireball) can't critical, then my answer is no the spell doesn't critical (but the arrow part of the attack sure does).
Okay, but how would a critter with a fireball arrow in it make a reflex save?Since imbue arrow relies on an attack roll like rays, can the spell get critical damage? Does it allow a reflex save to the target?@Leo I get what you are saying, I wasn't talking about imbuing a ray, it just acts similar to a ray ie you miss it doesn't go off and takes an attack roll.Oh.
Ok then, i am sorry i read your post wrong.
Now to answer your question, since area spells (for example fireball) can't critical, then my answer is no the spell doesn't critical (but the arrow part of the attack sure does).
I might have not understand your question correctly but if i did get it right:
I don't see any reason (from the mechanics side) that the reflex save would be any different if your attack did critical, why would it be any different? I mean yes from a "logical" point of view yes since the arrow hit dead on then the fireball should hit better but the rules don't offer such a thing.
If this happened while i was DMing then I'd house rule that if the arrow hits someone that person has already failed (by not dodging/crap ac) and gets no reflex from the fireball, everyone else gets a reflex. This becomes an interesting mechanic where you can trade them mading a save for you making an attack.
@Leo, I think you explained the critical not working spellwise quite well but I'm just saying if you get hit with say a fireball imbued arrow it's lodged into. Your body, how are you supposed to jump out of the way for less damage? It's exploding from you. I imagine it's for balance or whatnot.
Ah. ok then.
Might i suggest a penalty to the roll? I don't think that not allowing a save makes a huge difference but i have a killing headache right now to do the math so i let this task to someone else.
@Leo, I think you explained the critical not working spellwise quite well but I'm just saying if you get hit with say a fireball imbued arrow it's lodged into. Your body, how are you supposed to jump out of the way for less damage? It's exploding from you. I imagine it's for balance or whatnot.Ah. ok then.
Might i suggest a penalty to the roll? I don't think that not allowing a save makes a huge difference but i have a killing headache right now to do the math so i let this task to someone else.
I dislike disallowing a saving throw. It devalues Evasion, which makes rogues weaker. And they don't really need to be weaker.
@Leo, I think you explained the critical not working spellwise quite well but I'm just saying if you get hit with say a fireball imbued arrow it's lodged into. Your body, how are you supposed to jump out of the way for less damage? It's exploding from you. I imagine it's for balance or whatnot.
you were right earlier, its a balance issue. while your argument makes sense from a "real world perceptive" if you start allowing realism in it opens a a huge can of worms for other things. it also states "place an area effect on the arrow" it doesn't specifically say the arrow head,it equally could be the flights. Also with your logic how is anyone to attempt a save of an area effect that targets your square? A fireball for instance would surround everywhere you could possibly dodge too so using the same logic if an area effect targets your square you get no save? See the problem now?