Gunslinger Playtest – PFS Deeper Darkness

[Mok]

Last night I did another playtest in PFS with a Gunslinger.

This time it was with the Pathfinder Society module #47 The Darkest Vengeance.

**SPOILERS AWAIT IN THIS PLAYTEST REPORT**

First the character:

Str 12, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 7

1st level Gunslinger
Human

Feats: Rapid Reload, Point Blank Shot*

Musket for my free gun: +5/+6* to hit, damage 1d12/1d12+1*

Acrobatics +8, Heal +6, Know Local +5, Perception +6, Survival +6

I had in mind to use Heirloom Weapon to “fix” the gunslinger by allowing me to pick up the Pepperbox, but was crestfallen to see you still had to buy the weapon. I didn't bother getting any traits after that as I didn't have much time in prep for the game.

Encounter 1

Spoiler:

This was with three thugs. They got the jump on us, but with a party of six players it wasn't that much of a struggle.

Surprise Round – Thugs draw Weapons and 5-foot step into position

Round 1 – Drew musket out (move action) / Fire weapon (standard action) Rolled 13+6=19 then -8 for both cover and firing into combat, which brought it down to a roll of 11 touch attack. Rolled 6 damage, which dropped the thug.

I could have gotten a grit point, but I was already capped (grrr...)

Encounter 2

Spoiler:

This was with the charming doll who tries to get the party to turn on themselves. This ended up being kind of a weird encounter. The doll successfully charmed one of the fighter in the party and then told the fighter to kill everyone else. Despite the fighter's abysmal Charisma score, the opposed Charisma checks they had kept going in the PCs favor. She couldn't get him to do something he wasn't disposed to doing, so they basically had a little “friendly” tiff with each other the whole encounter. Eventually the doll gave up and asked to be let go and leave the place. The charmed PC obligied, and the rest of the party went along with that.

What did I do, I tried to shoot the dang thing the whole time.

Round 1: Fire (standard) Rolled 7+6 -4 (cover) = 9 touch. Miss
Round 2: Reload (standard)
Round 3: Fire (standard) Rolled 19+6 -4 (cover) = 21. Hit! But rolled 3 points of damage, not enough to get through the doll's DR.
Round 4: Charmed PC brings Doll upstairs, end of encounter.

Encounter 3:

Spoiler:

This was with the Dark Creeper. It started off with casting darkness. A player tossed a sunrod in the room so that we had some dim light to work with.

Round 1: I wasn't that thrilled with the idea of spending 11gp on a shot with a miss chance so I ran into the room and used my decent perception to look for the Creeper and then direct the rest of the party towards him, “There he is, get him!”

Round 2: Once the Creeper was involved in a melee and not easily able to slink about I positioned myself (move action) and then fired (standard). I rolled a 2... misfire! I declared the misfire, the GM asked “what does that mean?” and I said, “it means the gun is broken” which resulted in the entire table erupting in laughter.

Round 3: The pile on commenced and the Creeper was taken out, and exploded, before I could do anything.

Encounter 4:

Spoiler:

This was with the Dark Stalker. It cast deeper darkness on the front of the room. This is a very challenging encounter regardless of the level you play at. I was trying to hold back since I had already run the module and this was my replay. However the rest of the party didn't seem to get the idea of the solution, which is to turn on the machine in the room to cancel out the deeper darkness that the Dark Stalker casts. So basically I was tasked with getting it running, meanwhile most of the party was getting sneaked attacked into unconsciousness from the Dark Stalker.

Round 1: Delayed, then moved into room to be adjacent to other PCs
Round 2: Made an acrobatics check to run full speed out of darkness, ended up falling prone.
Round 3: Ran over to the device and starting messing with the mechanics to get it turned on.
Round 4: Got the last bits pieces in place and turned on the daylight machine, which revealed the Dark Stalker, “Get him!”
Round 5: Tried to draw the Dark Stalker away from the numerous PCs laying around him. He was wounded and I didn't want a bunch of players dying.
Round 6: Another player grappled the Dark Stalker. I ran over and pulled rope out.
Round 7: Tied the pinned Dark Stalker up and we dragged him away from the PCs

Analysis

I knew going into this session that the gunslinger wasn't going to be very dazzling. I went with the musket to just see how that would go. The fact that you can't fire it every round itself just makes non-viable.

The perks of the class for the session was the acrobatics and the perception. I failed my acrobatics check, but just barely. With a couple more levels and I'd be able to do that blind maneuver without needing to roll.

The misfire, as always, doesn't seem to add any “fun” to the experience. I understand that it's meant as a balance feature, but so far it doesn't seem like a mechanism that actually boosts enjoyment of the game.

It seems like this latest version of the Gunslinger fixed a lot of the “campaign” concerns, such as giving the sidebar for degrees of guns in a campaign world, and solving the issue of low level gunslingers having these treasure troves to pry from their hands. However, the gunslinger itself just doesn't feel like it has come together yet.

I've already raised some issues about the Gunslinger in a previous thread. I still stand by those observations. I know that there will definitely be a revision that will be addressing some of those issues, such as the “dead 2nd level.”

Still, I just want to highlight in this particular instance. One more adventure and I'd be leveling up. What I hope could be addressed is that in those first four levels there is enough interesting deeds to make it compelling to stay with Gunslinger and not go into something like Fighter 4. Somehow those deeds need to be compelling enough that it will override picking up Weapon Focus, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim and Weapon Specialization.

One of the things that just doesn't feel right is the potency of deeds. The amount of grit you get is very limited, and so in relations to every other class ability in the game, that would normally mean that the potency of this very limited resource would be very high. Higher than feats that are normally, “always on” and higher than spells, which a spellcaster gets quite a few more than the amount of grit that a Gunslinger gets.

Right now the deeds just don't seem to match up with what other classes offer, and the firearms, barring advanced ones, just aren't that compelling. So I'd just hope that the next iteration of the Gunslinger can deliver that “thing,” whatever it may be, that will provide a sound argument to stick with the class, rather than just use it as a dip and then go with Fighter, Ranger or Alchemist.

It might be via deeds, but there also just doesn't seem to be an inherent advantage to being a gunslinger with guns, versus a fighter with guns. At least not in terms of combat performance. You get crafting and maintenance skills, but a low level Gunslinger isn't really outperforming a low level Fighter with guns, in fact with the lack of feats, the Fighter is going to be doing a better job overall.

[Deadmanwalking]

Why weren't you using Alchemical cartridges?

They aren't that expensive, and you can reload one as a Move Action. It'd almost entirely remove that whole 'every other round' problem.

[Mok]

I guess I just find the misfire rules a bit too unpalatable, and because they increase the chance of a misfire they just aren't all that appealing to me. A misfire is just psychologically far worse than a miss, as are really any fumble type rules when you're supposed to be playing a fantasy hero.

I would much rather see part of the core feature of the Gunslinger is that misfires are reduced or entirely negated due to being a Gunslinger. That would definitely be a way of encouraging sticking with Gunslinger over just dipping and then going into Fighter, if there was just some kind of "gun maintenance" class ability, somewhat like weapon training for Fighters, that would, over the course of several levels, eliminate the misfire chance.

[Deadmanwalking]

Mok wrote:

I guess I just find the misfire rules a bit too unpalatable, and because they increase the chance of a misfire they just aren't all that appealing to me. A misfire is just psychologically far worse than a miss, as are really any fumble type rules when you're supposed to be playing a fantasy hero.

I guess, but with Quick Clear, all a misfire really does is cost you a round, which is made up for by the more rapid reloading (and if you burn a Grit, it might not even cost you that). And a cartridge only increases the chance slightly.

Mok wrote:

I would much rather see part of the core feature of the Gunslinger is that misfires are reduced or entirely negated due to being a Gunslinger. That would definitely be a way of encouraging sticking with Gunslinger over just dipping and then going into Fighter, if there was just some kind of "gun maintenance" class ability, somewhat like weapon training for Fighters, that would, over the course of several levels, eliminate the misfire chance.

A number of people have brought up this idea. I don't necessarily disagree with them (or you), but on a purely mechanical basis a slight increase in misfires is definitely not worth giving up the action economy of cartridges...for a musket user anyway.

[Icaste Fyrbawl]

As something that started off as a fighter alternative class I've often wondered why a fighter archetype wouldn't have sufficed?

Bravery -> Grit
Feats -> Gunslinger only feats (deeds)
Armor Training -> something to reduce misfire
Weapon Training -> Gun Training.

That's a lot simpler.

[Elghinn Lightbringer]

Mok wrote:

...I would much rather see part of the core feature of the Gunslinger is that misfires are reduced or entirely negated due to being a Gunslinger. That would definitely be a way of encouraging sticking with Gunslinger over just dipping and then going into Fighter, if there was just some kind of "gun maintenance" class ability, somewhat like weapon training for Fighters, that would, over the course of several levels, eliminate the misfire chance.

I had suggested this be added to Gun Training in another tread.

"In addition to her increased skill with firearms, beginning at 5th level, the gunslinger can permanently lower the misfire value of any firearm she has by 1 (minimum 0). Every four levels thereafter (9th, 13th, and 17th), she can lower the misfire value by an additional 1 (minimum 0). This improvement also affects the misfire value of alchemical cartridges used in her firearm."

I agree, this or something similar would be a nice class feature since the gunslinger is supposed to be the "guru of guns".

[Lefteris]

Mok wrote:

What I hope could be addressed is that in those first four levels there is enough interesting deeds to make it compelling to stay with Gunslinger and not go into something like Fighter 4. Somehow those deeds need to be compelling enough that it will override picking up Weapon Focus, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim and Weapon Specialization.

Forgive my ignorance but being a fighter alternate class, doesn't that mean that he has access to weapon specializaton?

Icaste Fyrbawl wrote:

As something that started off as a fighter alternative class

Is the gunslinger an "independent" class now?

Again, I'm asking because i cant find a definite answer on if he can take W.S!

[Mok]

The Gunslinger is now it's own independent class. It's in the intro of the revised playtest document.