Can I use Lunge in combination with Great Cleave and extend my Great Cleave reach by 5'?
Can I use Lunge in combination with Great Cleave and extend my Great Cleave reach by 5'?
Yes.
Can I use Lunge in combination with Great Cleave and extend my Great Cleave reach by 5'?
Nothing in the rules says you can't.
AFAIK, it's completely legal.
And fun, if you face e lot of weaker monsters all together ;)
EDIT: TRIPLE-NINJAED. O_O
It would be like a fighter bomb.
The AC penalties do stack, though. So you're now at -4 AC.
This excites me in ways it probably should not since we are fighting hordes of skeletons =)
-4 AC is not great but I am one of those rare fighters that uses a shield so it's not the end of the world.
This excites me in ways it probably should not since we are fighting hordes of skeletons =)
-4 AC is not great but I am one of those rare fighters that uses a shield so it's not the end of the world.
One of my players it's actually a shielded fighter making use of it. Since they are fairly high level now (15) is not rare that the "mooks" are ogres or trolls with fighter and barbarian level.. so move and trip/bash several is quite awesome.
Just like lunge and whirlwind! My barbarian is built that way and it is great fun.
-Venom
Just like lunge and whirlwind! My barbarian is built that way and it is great fun.
-Venom
Does Whirlwind Attack work with combat maneuvers? For example, can you run into the crowd of mooks, use lunge to increase your reach, and then trip everyone around you?
Developer
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Does Whirlwind Attack work with combat maneuvers? For example, can you run into the crowd of mooks, use lunge to increase your reach, and then trip everyone around you?
Depends on the Maneuver. If it replaces an attack, yes (Trip, Disarm). If it takes an attack action (a type of standard action) or a standard action, no (Grapple, Bull Rush, Sunder).
Would Lunge also allow to me make AOO when someone moves into my Zone, similar to a giant or ogre with reach?
Would Lunge also allow to me make AOO when someone moves into my Zone, similar to a giant or ogre with reach?
No. Lunge works for your turn only.
BTW:
For these things, prepare an action and/or use combat patrol with a polearm fighter or a phalanx soldier.
So, if I lunge I WOULD have reach for the purpose of an AOO for the remainder of my turn, until my next action?
So, no, I cannot use Lunge to extend reach for the purposes of provoking an attack of opportunity.
So, no, I cannot use Lunge to extend reach for the purposes of provoking an attack of opportunity.Correct, unless the AoO happens during your turn and not another players, like greater trip.
Or if you ready an action to specifically Lunge and hit something. But it would only cover that one attack, and it isn't really an AoO.
(Edit: a readied action isn't an AoO)
LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR! *BOOM*BOOM*BOOM*BOOM*
PF has shown the meleers some love!
Depends on the Maneuver. If it replaces an attack, yes (Trip, Disarm). If it takes an attack action (a type of standard action) or a standard action, no (Grapple, Bull Rush, Sunder).
I'm not aware of sunder actually requiring a standard action. The SRD says it can take the place of a melee attack. It doesn't use the word standard, but then neither does Vital Strike, if I recall, so there's that whole can of worms. The wording for sunder appears very similar to the wording of other maneuvers such as disarm.
Does Whirlwind Attack work with combat maneuvers? For example, can you run into the crowd of mooks, use lunge to increase your reach, and then trip everyone around you?Just like lunge and whirlwind! My barbarian is built that way and it is great fun.
-Venom
Remember that Whirlwind is a full-attack action, so there will be no running (or walking) before doing it.
But otherwise, you can trip, disarm og sunder them.|
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I'm not aware of sunder actually requiring a standard action. The SRD says it can take the place of a melee attack. It doesn't use the word standard, but then neither does Vital Strike, if I recall, so there's that whole can of worms. The wording for sunder appears very similar to the wording of other maneuvers such as disarm.
It replaces an attack action. The official stance (which I don't necessarily love) is that an attack action is a standard action.
Link is here.
Trip and Disarm simply state they replace attacks, not use the attack action.
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Depends on the Maneuver. If it replaces an attack, yes (Trip, Disarm). If it takes an attack action (a type of standard action) or a standard action, no (Grapple, Bull Rush, Sunder).I'm not aware of sunder actually requiring a standard action. The SRD says it can take the place of a melee attack. It doesn't use the word standard, but then neither does Vital Strike, if I recall, so there's that whole can of worms. The wording for sunder appears very similar to the wording of other maneuvers such as disarm.
AFAICS you can sunder while whirlwind/cleave/AoO/...
grapple/bull rush says "as standard action"
Sunder does not says "as attack action" but
Sunder :You can attempt to sunder an item held or worn by your opponent as part of an attack action in place of a melee attack.
(Italicized the important part)
Vrischika
My friend did this combination with his Druid.
While Wild shaped. Into a stegasaurus. With Improved Natural Attack. And Strong Jaw.
There *was* a group of around 20 men escorting a rather important carriage.
... the horror..
Can't sunder RAW in a whirlwind, as I just explained. Sunder = attack action = standard action.
Remember that Whirlwind is a full-attack action, so there will be no running (or walking) before doing it.
But otherwise, you can trip, disarm og sunder them.
I believe you are mistaken.
Sunder states: "as part of an attack action in place of an melee attack".
The fact that it is "as part of" seems to suggest that it is applicable to both a normal attack action and a full attack action.
It is different from vital strike (and other abilities) which more specifically refers to being an attack action.
The wording of sunder is much more similar to trip and disarm, than the other combat maneuvers, which take a standard action.
BTW: The link showed vital strike, and as far as I could tell, nothing about sunder.
Can't sunder RAW in a whirlwind, as I just explained. Sunder = attack action = standard action.
Remember that Whirlwind is a full-attack action, so there will be no running (or walking) before doing it.
But otherwise, you can trip, disarm og sunder them.I believe you are mistaken.
Sunder states: "as part of an attack action in place of an melee attack".
The fact that it is "as part of" seems to suggest that it is applicable to both a normal attack action and a full attack action.It is different from vital strike (and other abilities) which more specifically refers to being an attack action.
The wording of sunder is much more similar to trip and disarm, than the other combat maneuvers, which take a standard action.
BTW: The link showed vital strike, and as far as I could tell, nothing about sunder.
"as part of an attack action in place of a melee attack" means that instead of attacking the enemy with that Vital Strike, you can Sunder instead. It seems to me the intent was to limit Sundering to characters with high 1-hit damage, and so that not every person with an adamantine weapon and a bunch of attacks per round can obliterate multiple weapons.
I apologize but I am still fairly new to many of the PF game mechanics....
Would I be able to move 20' (my movement) and take a single attack using Lunge/Great Cleave? If I understand the mechanics that is fine.
I apologize but I am still fairly new to many of the PF game mechanics....
Would I be able to move 20' (my movement) and take a single attack using Lunge/Great Cleave? If I understand the mechanics that is fine.
Yes, you can do exactly that.
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May as well state my opinion here as well... ;)
'Attack action' is a descriptive term, not a rules term, since there's no 'attack action' action-type, just an attack option for the standard action action-type. James clarifies that the 'attack action' described in Vital Strike specifically means a standard action, in that specific case, but that's by no means a blanket ruling meaning 'every time we mention an "attack action" we always mean a "standard action"'. Sunder specifically states that it can be used in place of a melee attack (and it's clear in the rules as to what a 'melee attack' is). Sunder worked this way in 3.5 and there's no reason to think that Pathfinder changed that... then made the Monk a specific exception...
... So yes, you can use Sunder as part of a Cleave.
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The AC penalties do stack, though. So you're now at -4 AC.
"Lunge (Combat)
You can strike foes that would normally be out of reach.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: You can increase the reach of your melee attacks by 5 feet until the end of your turn by taking a –2 penalty to your AC until your next turn. You must decide to use this ability before any attacks are made."
As I read this I don't think that the AC penalty stacks per attack. But no one else has mentioned otherwise. Am I missing something?
As I read this I don't think that the AC penalty stacks per attack. But no one else has mentioned otherwise. Am I missing something?
The stacking AC penalty they are referring to is from Cleave (it has additional -2 to AC)
Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: As a standard action, you can make a single attack at your full base attack bonus against a foe within reach. If you hit, you deal damage normally and can make an additional attack (using your full base attack bonus) against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within reach. You can only make one additional attack per round with this feat. When you use this feat, you take a –2 penalty to your Armor Class until your next turn.
Activate Lunge and you get -2 AC till your next turn
Activate Cleave and you get a -2 AC till your next turn
Total for a -4 AC penalty till your next turn
One of my players it's actually a shielded fighter making use of it. Since they are fairly high level now (15) is not rare that the "mooks" are ogres or trolls with fighter and barbarian level.. so move and trip/bash several is quite awesome.This excites me in ways it probably should not since we are fighting hordes of skeletons =)
-4 AC is not great but I am one of those rare fighters that uses a shield so it's not the end of the world.
I have a ranger switchhitter that uses a buckler +1. The buckler is strapped to the shield arm and can be worn (but not used) when shooting a bow without penalty. When I switch from bow to sword (using quickdraw) I could even opt to use the sword twohanded (that would add a -1 to hit and eliminate the shield bonus). I am thinking of commisioning a quickdraw light shield as that would allow me to bash and I could don it using a free action thereby eliminating my -1 to hit when using my sword twohanded.