
Leafar the Lost |

Doctor Strange was originally Dr. Stephen Strange, a world-renowned but selfish neurosurgeon who only cared about making money. Then a car accident damaged his hands, preventing him from practicing surgery. Depressed and scouring the world for a cure to his condition, Strange locates a hermit called the Ancient One in the Himalayas. The Ancient One refuses to help Strange because of his selfishness, but does sense a good side to Strange which he attempts to bring to the surface. He fails, but Strange's goodness ignites when he discovers the Ancient One's disciple, Baron Mordo, is attempting to kill him. After Strange selflessly attempts to thwart the Ancient One's traitorous disciple, Baron Mordo (who would become one of Strange's most enduring antagonists), he is taught the mystic arts.
Doctor Strange is a master magician, and was the holder of the title of "Sorcerer Supreme" of the cosmos for many years. Eternity, the sentience of the Marvel Universe, has described Strange as "more powerful by far than any of your fellow humanoids," narration has described him as "the mightiest magician in the cosmos," and the Stranger considers him on a level with cosmic entities.
Doctor Strange can use magic to achieve virtually any effect he desires, such as telepathy, energy blasts, teleportation, astral projection, the creation of materials (such as food and water), creating planet-wide protective shields, restoring himself from bodily destruction, or resurrecting the dead.
When casting a spell, the character is often written to be invoking the name of a mystical entity, such as one of the Vishanti (Hoggoth, Oshtur, and Agamotto) or the group the Octessence. These entities usually lend their power to a particular effect, such as the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak, that Strange can use to entrap foes.
Strange is capable of stopping and reversing time on a planetary scale, sealing black holes, restoring universes, absorbing power enough to unconsciously destroy any surrounding galaxies, growing to the size of and merging with universal concepts, and helped to channel the mass of the entire Marvel Universe. Among other things, he has defeated the In-Betweener, and the Beyonder stated that Strange had him at a disadvantage when in a previously disoriented state.
Strange was also schooled in the use of dark magic by one-time foe Kaluu, using it to temporarily destroy the entity Shuma-Gorath. The use of this magic, however, was both addictive and corruptive and Kaluu had to purge the magic from Strange before it could take full effect.
From the beginning, stories revealed that Doctor Strange used magical artifacts to augment his power, such as the Cloak of Levitation, the Eye of Agamotto, the Book of the Vishanti, and the Orb of Agamotto. From the first story, Strange's residence, the Sanctum Sanctorum, was a part of the character's mythos. The trademark circular window divided by three sweeping lines on the front of the residence (actually the protective Seal of the Vishanti) appeared in many Doctor Strange stories. Strange's personal servant, Wong, guarded the residence in his absence.
Doctor Fate (also known by the diminutive, Fate) is the name of a succession of fictional sorcerers who appear in books published by DC Comics. The original version was created by writer Gardner Fox and artist Howard Sherman, and first appeared in More Fun Comics #55 (May 1940). In 1940, the character also became a founding member of the Golden Age superhero group the Justice Society of America.
Initially, Doctor Fate was Kent Nelson, the son of archaeologist Sven Nelson, who died after Kent opened the tomb of the ancient wizard Nabu. The orphaned boy was trained by Nabu in the arts of magic.
After DC's Crisis on Infinite Earths storyline, several different versions of Doctor Fate were introduced, but were relatively short-lived. Doctor Fate's appearances in other media and comics set outside the continuity of the DC Universe tend to be of the original Golden Age Kent Nelson incarnation.
Doctor Fate possesses a variety of different mystical powers. Generally, even without wearing the Helmet of Nabu, the host can fly, has resistance to harm, has minor telekinesis, and has greater-than-human strength. At his most powerful, Doctor Fate is an accomplished sorcerer, able to rival most other wizards in the DC universe. Doctor Fate has been seen firing bolts of mystical energy, teleporting across the universe, creating solid objects out of energy and transforming objects into other kinds of mater,. The full limits of his magical skills are not known and his abilities have varied greatly from one appearance to the next depending on the needs of the story. At perhaps the peak of his abilities he was able to assume control of Jason Blood,
Highfather, Darkseid and Orion and harnessed their powers to take on the Anti-Life entity. In this instance, he was strong enough to annihilate a reality in order to halt the advancing of the entity using a "Mystic Firebreak". Even as powerful as Doctor Fate is, he has been shown to be on the losing side of the long battles with the Spectre, as shown in the Day of Vengeance series.
Helm of Nabu
The helmet that Doctor Fate wears focuses the Doctor Fate identity. It was originally used to house Nabu's spirit and allowed him possession of the host, later only allowed him to advise the host instead. The helmet is what provides the link to Nabu and by not wearing it, as Kent Nelson did at one time, Doctor Fate loses much of its power and knowledge.
Putting on the helmet usually results in its wearer being clad in the other raiment’s of Doctor Fate, unless the person with the claim to the helmet wishes to prevent it. Villains seeking the power of Doctor Fate have plundered the helmet, in which case the result is typically that the wearer goes insane when they try to put on the helmet.
Amulet of Anubis
The circular device on the collar worn around Doctor Fate's chest and shoulders is the Amulet of Anubis, which gives it's bearer vast magical abilities. The amulet houses the souls of many who have worn the vestments of Fate. In JSA, the amulet contained the image of a farmhouse with the souls of Kent and Inza Nelson, Eric and Linda Strauss, Jared Stevens and Kid Eternity inhabiting it. This dimension has been used as a refuge for the Justice Society Of America to regroup in battle or access the advice of the previous Doctor Fates. Mordru was imprisoned in the amulet for some time.
This fight will be between Dr. Strange and the Kent Nelson version of Dr. Fate, which is the only one worth a damn. The “fate” of both their home universes will be on the line. Their battle would be on a universal scale, and each of them would call on their respective universal powers to fight each other. When it comes to just raw power, Dr. Fate would have the edge there. He can harness the powers of Order itself, which is typically blue in color. He could annihilate reality if he needed too.
However, in the end Dr. Strange would prevail. Why? Throughout his career, he has routinely taken on and defeated beings far more powerful than him by turning their own powers against them. I remember how he helped to defeat Galactus by casting one simple spell that made him remember all the worlds he had destroyed. He was able to defeat two very powerful demonic beings (Mephisto and Demogorgon) by casting a spell that started to merge them into one all-powerful being, but at the cost of their own, unique personalities. It forced them to leave Earth, because they were going to destroy it by fighting each other.
Yes, Dr. Fate is more powerful, but Dr. Strange is smarter, and in this fight that is what would be the deciding factor. After a long battle, Dr. Strange would find a way to turn Dr. Fate’s power onto himself, and then with a quick spell he would win. I would love to actually see that in some future cross over event. Has it been done before?

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He can harness the powers of Order itself, which is typically blue in color.
Waitaminnit!? Dr. Fate has Blue Magic?! Sorry man, but I don't think Strange can counter the groove-inducing power of 70's R&B. I'm gonna have to go with Dr. Fate on this one.

Peace LVR |

Leafar the Lost wrote:He can harness the powers of Order itself, which is typically blue in color.Waitaminnit!? Dr. Fate has Blue Magic?! Sorry man, but I don't think Strange can counter the groove-inducing power of 70's R&B. I'm gonna have to go with Dr. Fate on this one.
Whoa dude! I prefer my magic in a multi-colored, psychedelic haze. It's ultra-groovy....

VM mercenario |

Is there a point to all of these posts? Besides showing you're a diehard Marvel fan, that is?
Like I said a couple threads back, I think he's a troll trying to incite a flamewar. But this an RPG forum at core so we take it in good humor. That is why he keeps coming up with new and increasingly non-important threads. (Dr. Fate vs. Dr Strange? Srsly? Whatever)

Freehold DM |

I don't think he is trolling per se, and even if he was, this is the comic book forum -we all have our favorite characters and most of us can explain our points of view eloquently enough to avoid flaming. I have often wondered who would win in such a contest, and I still think Dr Fate would carry the day if only because he is actually a wizard without his powerful trinkets, Strange relies too much on his magical items.

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I don't think he is trolling per se, and even if he was, this is the comic book forum -we all have our favorite characters and most of us can explain our points of view eloquently enough to avoid flaming. I have often wondered who would win in such a contest, and I still think Dr Fate would carry the day if only because he is actually a wizard without his powerful trinkets, Strange relies too much on his magical items.
Strange is a wizard without his trinkets as well. ;)

Freehold DM |

Freehold DM wrote:I don't think he is trolling per se, and even if he was, this is the comic book forum -we all have our favorite characters and most of us can explain our points of view eloquently enough to avoid flaming. I have often wondered who would win in such a contest, and I still think Dr Fate would carry the day if only because he is actually a wizard without his powerful trinkets, Strange relies too much on his magical items.Strange is a wizard without his trinkets as well. ;)
Sorry, I am posting via phone, so I think I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be. I think Dr Fate is a far more powerful wizard without his trinkets than Dr Strange is without his.

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Mac Boyce wrote:Freehold DM wrote:I don't think he is trolling per se, and even if he was, this is the comic book forum -we all have our favorite characters and most of us can explain our points of view eloquently enough to avoid flaming. I have often wondered who would win in such a contest, and I still think Dr Fate would carry the day if only because he is actually a wizard without his powerful trinkets, Strange relies too much on his magical items.Strange is a wizard without his trinkets as well. ;)Sorry, I am posting via phone, so I think I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be. I think Dr Fate is a far more powerful wizard without his trinkets than Dr Strange is without his.
Well, I guess I can forgive someone who doesn't like Kyle Rayner. He is the reason the Corps are back anyway. ;)
*sits back and awaits the arguement*

Freehold DM |

Freehold DM wrote:Mac Boyce wrote:Freehold DM wrote:I don't think he is trolling per se, and even if he was, this is the comic book forum -we all have our favorite characters and most of us can explain our points of view eloquently enough to avoid flaming. I have often wondered who would win in such a contest, and I still think Dr Fate would carry the day if only because he is actually a wizard without his powerful trinkets, Strange relies too much on his magical items.Strange is a wizard without his trinkets as well. ;)Sorry, I am posting via phone, so I think I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be. I think Dr Fate is a far more powerful wizard without his trinkets than Dr Strange is without his.
Well, I guess I can forgive someone who doesn't like Kyle Rayner. He is the reason the Corps are back anyway. ;)
*sits back and awaits the arguement*
Hey, it's the one thing the kid got right. Stopped clocks and all. Now if he had gone one step further and stepped down as GL in light of the awful job he had been doing...

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Mac Boyce wrote:Hey, it's the one thing the kid got right. Stopped clocks and all. Now if he had gone one step further and stepped down as GL in light of the awful job he had been doing...Freehold DM wrote:Mac Boyce wrote:Freehold DM wrote:I don't think he is trolling per se, and even if he was, this is the comic book forum -we all have our favorite characters and most of us can explain our points of view eloquently enough to avoid flaming. I have often wondered who would win in such a contest, and I still think Dr Fate would carry the day if only because he is actually a wizard without his powerful trinkets, Strange relies too much on his magical items.Strange is a wizard without his trinkets as well. ;)Sorry, I am posting via phone, so I think I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be. I think Dr Fate is a far more powerful wizard without his trinkets than Dr Strange is without his.
Well, I guess I can forgive someone who doesn't like Kyle Rayner. He is the reason the Corps are back anyway. ;)
*sits back and awaits the arguement*
You know the Guardians refer to him as the Number One Green Lantern right?
Besides, on your FB page, it says you're a huge fan of Kyle!

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There's the Grant Morrison "Hand of Ghod", in the character of Dream, who noted that Kyle Rayner will not only match Hal's achievements, but he will exceed them. Which means exactly as much as you think it ought.
Given that the Green Lantern power is "anything you want, except raising the dead", I appreciate the membersof the Corps having different personalities. I like Hal the stoic, Kyle the romantic, and Guy the jock. I have never gotten a handle on John.

Freehold DM |

Freehold DM wrote:Mac Boyce wrote:Hey, it's the one thing the kid got right. Stopped clocks and all. Now if he had gone one step further and stepped down as GL in light of the awful job he had been doing...Freehold DM wrote:Mac Boyce wrote:Freehold DM wrote:I don't think he is trolling per se, and even if he was, this is the comic book forum -we all have our favorite characters and most of us can explain our points of view eloquently enough to avoid flaming. I have often wondered who would win in such a contest, and I still think Dr Fate would carry the day if only because he is actually a wizard without his powerful trinkets, Strange relies too much on his magical items.Strange is a wizard without his trinkets as well. ;)Sorry, I am posting via phone, so I think I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be. I think Dr Fate is a far more powerful wizard without his trinkets than Dr Strange is without his.
Well, I guess I can forgive someone who doesn't like Kyle Rayner. He is the reason the Corps are back anyway. ;)
*sits back and awaits the arguement*
?
You know the Guardians refer to him as the Number One Green Lantern right?
Besides, on your FB page, it says you're a huge fan of Kyle!
with respect to the Guardians, i would more say that is a Kyle -loving writer using said Guardian as a mouthpiece. They have more respect for John, whom even Kyle realizes he can't hold a candle to.
In terms of the Facebook page and its contents : AAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!
Freehold DM |

There's the Grant Morrison "Hand of Ghod", in the character of Dream, who noted that Kyle Rayner will not only match Hal's achievements, but he will exceed them. Which means exactly as much as you think it ought.
Given that the Green Lantern power is "anything you want, except raising the dead", I appreciate the membersof the Corps having different personalities. I like Hal the stoic, Kyle the romantic, and Guy the jock. I have never gotten a handle on John.
once again, writers playing up the dubious achievements of the characters they like or were personally involved with in some way. Also, i am sure Morrison was quite stoned at the time he wrote that.

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Since this thread is now officially derailed from 'DR fight' to 'Green Lantern general', then would someone who keeps up with GL lore mind explaining to me, please, why there are 4 GLs from Earth, when every sector is supposed to have 2 guardians?
And why Alan Scott doesnt count as one of the actual GLs?

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Alan Scott doesn't count because he was never contacted by the Guardians and made a member of the team. His lantern (and ring) are more similar to Earth 3's Power Ring: a mystical entity in the lantern looking for a symbiotic relationship with a human.
(In an '80s retcon, DC established that Alan's magic lantern was connected to the Guardians of the Universe, when the little blue guys decided (how? why?) to purge magic out of the universe and store it in a convenient lantern-shaped receptacle.
There are four Earth GLs because we have a primary (Hal) his secondary (Guy) a replacement for the secondary when Guy was injured (John) and then somebody from Earth when there were no other GLs (Kyle). They have all acted as exemplars of the Corps (except John when he made terrible mistakes, or Hal when he went crazy, or Guy pretty mch most of the time) so they've all been retained as a special case for Sector 2814.

Freehold DM |

Alan Scott doesn't count because he was never contacted by the Guardians and made a member of the team. His lantern (and ring) are more similar to Earth 3's Power Ring: a mystical entity in the lantern looking for a symbiotic relationship with a human.
(In an '80s retcon, DC established that Alan's magic lantern was connected to the Guardians of the Universe, when the little blue guys decided (how? why?) to purge magic out of the universe and store it in a convenient lantern-shaped receptacle.
There are four Earth GLs because we have a primary (Hal) his secondary (Guy) a replacement for the secondary when Guy was injured (John) and then somebody from Earth when there were no other GLs (Kyle). They have all acted as exemplars of the Corps (except John when he made terrible mistakes, or Hal when he went crazy, or Guy pretty mch most of the time) so they've all been retained as a special case for Sector 2814.
You're forgetting the time Kyle was handing out GL rings willy nilly and ended up handing one to a space-hitler.
Yes, I just godwinned the thread.

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On the first topic;
. Dr. Fate-as-Nabu is the sort of entity that Dr. Strange calls on to use his magics.
. Dr. Strange has beaten such entities before anyway (such as Dormammu).
. Dr. Fate without the Helmet of Nabu is some dude. Sometimes he's some dude with an amulet that gives him some super-strength, flight and limited invulnerability.
. Dr. Strange without the Eye of Agamotto (which he hardly ever uses) and his Cloak of Levitation is still the Sorcerer Supreme of the entire dimension. (Indeed, he once left his cloak and amulet behind to handle one threat, while he dealt with another one...)
. Dr. Strange has had his butt kicked by a dude who hit him with an ashtray. Seriously.
. Dr. Fate has died and been replaced a lot. Dr. Strange, not so much.
. The writers will decide who wins, regardless of who has done the most witchy mojo in the past, or whose magic bling is blingier. DC characters are *generally* somewhere between dozens and hundreds of times more powerful than Marvel characters. (See Thor 'I can lift 100 tons, 200 if I have my magic belt on' vs. Superman 'What's the format for applying exponential notation to a googleplex? 'Cause that's how many tons I can lift...') I'd give it to Fate, on account that Fate has kept getting more powerful over the years, while Strange has been downgraded from a guy who can teleport an entire team of Defenders across the universe, and hands magic rings of teleportation to his old buddy Nightwing, to someone who can't teleport the Avengers across the street, or himself across town.
As for the tangent;
. Kyle Rayner and John Stewart are ten times the character that Hal Jordan has ever been. The only 'Hal Jordan' I liked in the DCU went under the superhero sobriquet of Airwave. (Alan Scott is also cool, and while I'd hate Guy Gardner IRL, he's a fun character to read about.)
Other random troll-flamage;
. Barry Allen also sucks. He died twenty-five years ago. I'm so over him. Bart and Wally, ftw. (I'd rather read the adventures of Max Mercury, Johnny Quick and / or the evil Flash dude from Earth-3's Crime Syndicate than Barry. That's not a bash on them, they're actually interesting people.)
. Dick was better as Nightwing. Tim's a fun Robin. Jason Todd, like Bucky Barnes, should have stayed dead. Damien's a toad.
. Conner Kent/Kon-El is more interesting than Superman. Conner Hawke was a more interesting Green Arrow. I have no idea wtf is up with the Aquapeeps or the Hawkpeeps.
. The Legion will probably end again soon, and I will hide my face as I wipe away a tear.
. The Wolfman/Perez Teen Titans revivals that show up every five years or so, in a pathetic attempt to recapture that lightning-in-a-bottle are just dancing on the graves of good storytelling. Let it go. It was good. It's over. Garfield can remain a grown-up and lead the Doom Patrol. Kory can join a cosmic team like REBELS, or rule New, New, New Tamaran (if they can avoid blowing up her homeworld for a fourth time...). Dick can be Nightwing. Victor can go hang out on the JLA satellite and be the tech-guy. Raven can grow back up again and go beat up her dead and become the ruler of the Dark Dimension, with the Flames of Faltine dancing on her brow. Wally can be the Flash. Donna can implode, as her half-dozen contradictory origins cancel each other out in a massive blast of discontinuity. (Anything that retroactively removes Terry Long from continuity is worth it!)
. Terra can stay evil, kinda skanky, and dead.
. Didio and Quesada are two of the five missing fragments of Mephisto's soul that managed to get away. Someday, they'll be united and their combined evil will crack open the seventh seal and unleash the apocalypse.

Freehold DM |

On the first topic;
. Dr. Fate-as-Nabu is the sort of entity that Dr. Strange calls on to use his magics.
Which is why Strange really has no chance, IMO.
. Dr. Strange has beaten such entities before anyway (such as Dormammu).
Largely because said entity took stupid pills that morning, not necessarily due to Strange being better.
. Dr. Fate without the Helmet of Nabu is some dude. Sometimes he's some dude with an amulet that gives him some super-strength, flight and limited invulnerability.
All of which he could easily use to clean Strange's clock. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's him as a person, not necessarily the amulet.
. Dr. Strange without the Eye of Agamotto (which he hardly ever uses) and his Cloak of Levitation is still the Sorcerer Supreme of the entire dimension. (Indeed, he once left his cloak and amulet behind to handle one threat, while he dealt with another one...)
He has other magical gewgaws on his person empowering him. Without ANYTHING he's skilled, but would still be helpless before Fate.
. Dr. Strange has had his butt kicked by a dude who hit him with an ashtray. Seriously.
Case and point.
. Dr. Fate has died and been replaced a lot. Dr. Strange, not so much.
Yeah, Fate's lived and died several times, but I always thought that was part of his backstory. Strange, on the other hand, has been quite handily replaced by someone who actually knows what they're doing(Doctor Voodoo).
. The writers will decide who wins, regardless of who has done the most witchy mojo in the past, or whose magic bling is blingier. DC characters are *generally* somewhere between dozens and hundreds of times more powerful than Marvel characters. (See Thor 'I can lift 100 tons, 200 if I have my magic belt on' vs. Superman 'What's the format for applying exponential notation to a googleplex? 'Cause that's how many tons I can lift...') I'd give it to Fate, on account that Fate has kept getting more powerful over the years, while Strange has been downgraded from a guy who can teleport an entire team of Defenders across the universe, and hands magic rings of teleportation to his old buddy Nightwing, to someone who can't teleport the Avengers across the street, or himself across town.
Fate is also just more generally kickass and far, far less whiny.
As for the tangent;
. Kyle Rayner and John Stewart are ten times the character that Hal Jordan has ever been. The only 'Hal Jordan' I liked in the DCU went under the superhero sobriquet of Airwave. (Alan Scott is also cool, and while I'd hate Guy Gardner IRL, he's a fun character to read about.)
My distaste(not dislike) for Hal is such that this equation is true if you add Kyle and John together. And you know how much I hate Kyle.
Other random troll-flamage;
. Barry Allen also sucks. He died twenty-five years ago. I'm so over him. Bart and Wally, ftw. (I'd rather read the adventures of Max Mercury, Johnny Quick and / or the evil Flash dude from Earth-3's Crime Syndicate than Barry. That's not a bash on them, they're actually interesting people.)
I would have preferred he stayed dead. I did NOT care for the "Hey, all the Rogue kill me the *VERY INSTANT* I become the Flash" thing they pulled with Bart(or was it Wally?). That was utter BS.
. Dick was better as Nightwing. Tim's a fun Robin. Jason Todd, like Bucky Barnes, should have stayed dead. Damien's a toad.
I agree, and not necessarily because I dislike Jason. He just died a long time ago and should have remained so, as above.
. Conner Kent/Kon-El is more interesting than Superman. Conner Hawke was a more interesting Green Arrow. I have no idea wtf is up with the Aquapeeps or the Hawkpeeps.
Meh.
. The Legion will probably end again soon, and I will hide my face as I wipe away a tear.
I doubt this. If the strange alternate take on the book wasn't enough to kill it, I don't think a traditionally predictable one will.
. The Wolfman/Perez Teen Titans revivals that show up every five years or so, in a pathetic attempt to recapture that lightning-in-a-bottle are just dancing on the graves of good storytelling. Let it go. It was good. It's over. Garfield can remain a grown-up and lead the Doom Patrol. Kory can join a cosmic team like REBELS, or rule New, New, New Tamaran (if they can avoid blowing up her homeworld for a fourth time...). Dick can be Nightwing. Victor can go hang out on the JLA satellite and be the tech-guy. Raven can grow back up again and go beat up her dead and become the ruler of the Dark Dimension, with the Flames of Faltine dancing on her brow. Wally can be the Flash. Donna can implode, as her half-dozen contradictory origins cancel each other out in a massive blast of discontinuity. (Anything that retroactively removes Terry Long from continuity is worth it!)
...You raise a few good points here. Teen Titans was indeed lightning in a bottle, and the characters should be allowed to grow up. Not a big fan of killing off Terry Long, however, as I have always felt that superheroes should be allowed to retire in peace instead of being forced to come back only to be killed in an attempt to boost sales.
. Terra can stay evil, kinda skanky, and dead.
I always found the character and her reception to be an exercise in quiet misogyny myself. The whole thing could have been done much better and in a less pedophiliac way, imo.
. Didio and Quesada are two of the five missing fragments of Mephisto's soul that managed to get away. Someday, they'll be united and their combined evil will crack open the seventh seal and unleash the apocalypse.
I too, live in fear of that day. The Dark Days of Didio continue unabated.

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Aberzombie wrote:One of the reasons I say Jason Todd should have stayed dead is because I was one of the people who called into the line that said "kill him" all those years ago!Huh, a zombie arguing for someone to have stayed dead. :)
When I help put someone down, I expect them to stay down!

Grey Lensman |
Personally, I like all the other GL's more than Hal. Kyle, Guy, and John are all good characters, Hal is more a collection of tropes. They all pale compared to Killowog, though.
Hal has.....
Daredevil job? Check.
Dead parent? Check.
Bonus points for witnessing the death? Check.
My money is on Fate over Strange. DC characters generally have more power than Marvel ones.

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Chris Mortika wrote:Alan Scott doesn't count because he was never contacted by the Guardians and made a member of the team. His lantern (and ring) are more similar to Earth 3's Power Ring: a mystical entity in the lantern looking for a symbiotic relationship with a human.
(In an '80s retcon, DC established that Alan's magic lantern was connected to the Guardians of the Universe, when the little blue guys decided (how? why?) to purge magic out of the universe and store it in a convenient lantern-shaped receptacle.
There are four Earth GLs because we have a primary (Hal) his secondary (Guy) a replacement for the secondary when Guy was injured (John) and then somebody from Earth when there were no other GLs (Kyle). They have all acted as exemplars of the Corps (except John when he made terrible mistakes, or Hal when he went crazy, or Guy pretty mch most of the time) so they've all been retained as a special case for Sector 2814.
You're forgetting the time Kyle was handing out GL rings willy nilly and ended up handing one to a space-hitler.
Yes, I just godwinned the thread.
Because Kyle has....wait for it....HUMAN EMOTIONS. He's allowed to be wrong. Hal, John and Guy were never allowed to be wrong.
And besides, Kyle ended up kicking Space-Hitler's arse. I wonder why Magaan (yeah, that's the dude's name) never became a part of the Sinestro Corps?
Dr. Fate is a LORD OF ORDER. I think he beats the Sorcerer Supreme.

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WTH? The Sorcerer Supreme, Dr. Strange, has fought the LIVING TRIBUNAL, MEPHISTO, GALACTUS, and Adam Warlock when he had all seven of the INFINITY GEMS. He would find a way to beat Dr. Fate, and you know that...
Nah, Fate would school him. I like Dr. Stephen Strange as a character better than platitude-spouting haughty Lord of Order Fate, but he's fallen far, far, far from his glory days, so that he could be on a team with street-level heroes like Hawkeye, Ronin, Captain Bucky, Luke Cage and Wolverine.
There's a very real chance that second-tier DC mystics like Raven, Klarion the Witchboy or Etrigan could smoke the downgraded Dr. Strange that travels with the Avengers.
There are plenty of potentially awesome match-ups between DC and Marvel, such as Photon vs. Dr. Light (Kimiko, not the crazy dude), or Quasar vs. a Green Lantern, or the Agents of Atlas vs. the Doom Patrol or Outsiders, but Dr. Strange is a pale faded shadow of the man he used to be, and Dr. Fate is back up to his fighting weight.
Even dead, the Doctor Druid we saw recently in Dead Avengers is a stronger mage than the current Dr. Strange.
Clea, with the Flames of Faltine and rulership of the Dark Dimension, might be a better matchup against Fate. She's way, way, way transcended her old teacher.

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Leafar the Lost wrote:WTH? The Sorcerer Supreme, Dr. Strange, has fought the LIVING TRIBUNAL, MEPHISTO, GALACTUS, and Adam Warlock when he had all seven of the INFINITY GEMS. He would find a way to beat Dr. Fate, and you know that...Nah, Fate would school him. I like Dr. Stephen Strange as a character better than platitude-spouting haughty Lord of Order Fate, but he's fallen far, far, far from his glory days, so that he could be on a team with street-level heroes like Hawkeye, Ronin, Captain Bucky, Luke Cage and Wolverine.
There's a very real chance that second-tier DC mystics like Raven, Klarion the Witchboy or Etrigan could smoke the downgraded Dr. Strange that travels with the Avengers.
There are plenty of potentially awesome match-ups between DC and Marvel, such as Photon vs. Dr. Light (Kimiko, not the crazy dude), or Quasar vs. a Green Lantern, or the Agents of Atlas vs. the Doom Patrol or Outsiders, but Dr. Strange is a pale faded shadow of the man he used to be, and Dr. Fate is back up to his fighting weight.
Even dead, the Doctor Druid we saw recently in Dead Avengers is a stronger mage than the current Dr. Strange.
Clea, with the Flames of Faltine and rulership of the Dark Dimension, might be a better matchup against Fate. She's way, way, way transcended her old teacher.
Oh yeah, I'm a big Doc Strange fan, but Etrigan would smoke his ass. Klarion might have a bit tougher time, but then he'd just throw Teekl at Doc Strange's face and watch the fun.

Freehold DM |

Freehold DM wrote:Chris Mortika wrote:Alan Scott doesn't count because he was never contacted by the Guardians and made a member of the team. His lantern (and ring) are more similar to Earth 3's Power Ring: a mystical entity in the lantern looking for a symbiotic relationship with a human.
(In an '80s retcon, DC established that Alan's magic lantern was connected to the Guardians of the Universe, when the little blue guys decided (how? why?) to purge magic out of the universe and store it in a convenient lantern-shaped receptacle.
There are four Earth GLs because we have a primary (Hal) his secondary (Guy) a replacement for the secondary when Guy was injured (John) and then somebody from Earth when there were no other GLs (Kyle). They have all acted as exemplars of the Corps (except John when he made terrible mistakes, or Hal when he went crazy, or Guy pretty mch most of the time) so they've all been retained as a special case for Sector 2814.
You're forgetting the time Kyle was handing out GL rings willy nilly and ended up handing one to a space-hitler.
Yes, I just godwinned the thread.
Because Kyle has....wait for it....HUMAN EMOTIONS. He's allowed to be wrong. Hal, John and Guy were never allowed to be wrong.
And besides, Kyle ended up kicking Space-Hitler's arse. I wonder why Magaan (yeah, that's the dude's name) never became a part of the Sinestro Corps?
Dr. Fate is a LORD OF ORDER. I think he beats the Sorcerer Supreme.
say what? How many times have hal, guy, and John messed up over the yeara? Dozens upon dozens of times. And they are rightfully lampooned for their mistakes. But whenever Kyle messes up, the writer gives him a softball or a pass. Just one more reason why I hate the character?.

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say what? How many times have hal, guy, and John messed up over the yeara? Dozens upon dozens of times. And they are rightfully lampooned for their mistakes. But whenever Kyle messes up, the writer gives him a softball or a pass. Just one more reason why I hate the character?.
Haters gonna hate.

Valegrim |

Ok; you left out Dr Strange's talent; he has a rare gift of taking magical forces used against him or spells in operation and absorbing the power of them to fuel his own spells. This makes it really hard for another sorcererr to defeat him or for him to be defeated by magic; though Dr. Doom did it.
Brother Voodoo is no where near Dr Strange's caliber; how Brother Voodoo became Sorcerere Supreme is beyond me; cant really see him as guarden of the Dimensional Nexus like Dr. Strange and the Eternal One.
Just wanted to add this.

Freehold DM |

Ok; you left out Dr Strange's talent; he has a rare gift of taking magical forces used against him or spells in operation and absorbing the power of them to fuel his own spells. This makes it really hard for another sorcererr to defeat him or for him to be defeated by magic; though Dr. Doom did it.
Brother Voodoo is no where near Dr Strange's caliber; how Brother Voodoo became Sorcerere Supreme is beyond me; cant really see him as guarden of the Dimensional Nexus like Dr. Strange and the Eternal One.
Just wanted to add this.
A good point, but I dont' think this is really a talent as much as it is a deus ex machina. If this was the case, he would have handily defeeated every magical menace within moments and the book would have been more boring than it already is. I always viewed Voodoo as a specialist where Strange was a generalist, actually.

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Valegrim wrote:A good point, but I dont' think this is really a talent as much as it is a deus ex machina. If this was the case, he would have handily defeeated every magical menace within moments and the book would have been more boring than it already is. I always viewed Voodoo as a specialist where Strange was a generalist, actually.Ok; you left out Dr Strange's talent; he has a rare gift of taking magical forces used against him or spells in operation and absorbing the power of them to fuel his own spells. This makes it really hard for another sorcererr to defeat him or for him to be defeated by magic; though Dr. Doom did it.
Brother Voodoo is no where near Dr Strange's caliber; how Brother Voodoo became Sorcerere Supreme is beyond me; cant really see him as guarden of the Dimensional Nexus like Dr. Strange and the Eternal One.
Just wanted to add this.
While I really enjoyed the limited run of Brother Voodoo as the new Sorcerer Supreme, I really miss Dr. Strange in that role. Of course, I also wouldn't mind seeing a mini-series or elseworlds type storyline titled Doctor Doom: Sorcerer Supreme. He's got the talent.

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Well, I guess I can forgive someone who doesn't like Kyle Rayner. He is the reason the Corps are back anyway. ;)*sits back and awaits the arguement*
I don't have an issue with Kyle Raynor, just the way the DC writers tried to cram him down our throats as if Gardner and Jordan never really mattered. Although it doesn't compare how badly Marvel handled the pro-registration side of Civil War, making what would have been a very good argument an extremely distorted one by making the scummiest people in the Marvel Universe it's prime messengers.

Valegrim |

i liked the premise of Civil War; a good meat and potatoes issue that has been brewing for years with the gravy of mutant registration which was getting stale in the back of the fridge for years. I really liked the premise; not sure what I would have dont to do it better. I cant say it was bad; I thought it was average writing just because I am not one for fear based decisions; though it sure seems to follow with current real life political agendas.
I have been doing some research on DR. Fate; hard to match him up to Dr. Strange as Fate is so enigmatic.