So, I am one of those people who tend to get obsessed with ideas until I have to do something about them. This tends to lead me into doing large, complex and sometimes costly projects simply because if I don't do them, I just keep thinking about how to do them until it drives me nuts. This is why I've built telescopes, built a digital gaming table, made my own miniatures, etc...
Well, my latest obsession is 3D terrain. I have been working with styrofoam, foamcore poster paper, sculpey clay, epoxy and other materials for a couple of weeks now making terrain. The terrain I've made includes lots of trees, rocks, boulders, ancient ruins, lookout towers and my latest obsession within an obsession, building a scale model of the palace in my current campaign using foamcore poster board.
So, now that I've invested probably $40 or so in materials and have spent a couple weeks making stuff, I have started to wonder if all this effort is worth it.
How many people have used 3D terrain? Has anyone created an entire palace for their campaign before? Do you have trees, bushes, boulders and ancient ruins modeled to scale and used as part of the tactical options in the encounter?
If so, was it worth it? Did the play group think this added verisimilitude or did it increase the immersiveness of the campaign?
It's surprisingly inexpensive to do this, it mostly just takes time. The entire palace will be made out of foamcore poster which you can get at Hobby Lobby for $2 for a 20x30 inch sheet. I've made furniture with sculpey clay, which will make a whole lot of beds, tables and chairs. Styrofoam is pretty much free from any boxed item you buy in a store or from mailing packages.
If you haven't used 3D terrain in your campaigns, do you sometimes wish you could? Do you think you would enjoy playing in a campaign where the big battle up the cliff face to the top of the mesa was actually a big battle on an actual cliff face leading up to an actual mesa?
I'm just wondering if I'm going to pull all this out for my group and they'll all just shrug....
99.99% of the time, 2D terrain is perfectly functional, and actually easier to deal with (no having to maneuver figures around while worrying about knocking over trees, etc.)
My suggestion is to save the 3D terrain for special occasions, or for when different elevations in a fight scene can be important.
Minor spoiler for the module Silent Tide:
Take the time and energy that would otherwise be spent in Terrain creation and put it into Plot creation (or in crafting interesting tactical scenarios for a combat-heavy game) and you'll get far more bang for your buck, IMO.
Since this is a "palace intrigue" game, I'm expecting the party to be spending a lot of time in the palace, so that's why I'm building that. The ruins and the tower are part of a bandit hideout encounter scenario where I am expecting terrain to be part of the tactical choices of the encounter and I'm hoping that having actual trees, boulders and ruins makes it more clear what the movement options are. For example, there are places where a character will have to squeeze to get through and areas where the party will have to move through threatened squares that will, I hope, demonstrate clearly the sort of cover the attackers have.
Heh, as far as plot, I like to think that I can do both, that doing terrain while watching TV takes no more from the plot development than just watching TV without making terrain. I mean I love this game, but it's not what I spend every waking hour doing.
Thanks for the response. I'll put you down in the "meh" category. :)
I've only used 3D terrain on rare occasions, but my players have always enjoyed it. I unfortunately didn't have the time to get really in depth on the details, but if I were a player I would be excited to play in such a game.
I have all the terrain set up with 1" grids. My biggest concern is the steeper areas where a mini might not stay in place, so I'm considering making some uneven tripod platforms so I can put the mini on top of a platform that is more or less flat because of the uneven length of the tripod legs.
I am currently making all of my stairs 1" risers so that the minis work on them even though they would be difficult to climb as actual stairs. But minis will be able to stand on them if they end their turn halfway up the stairs. Basically each flight of stairs is four 1" risers of 2.5' each (or 1/4 inch each, so the first stair is 1/4, the second is 1/2 the third is 3/4 and the fourth is on the next floor. So it takes a move of 3 to climb the stairs.
It's actually quite interesting and fun to build the terrain. It's amazing what you can do with some very inexpensive materials to make some really pretty nice looking terrain. I bought some cheap moss in a bag that is used as floral arrangement filler for like $2.50 and it makes fantastic bushes, vines and weeds. I have some lichen I got from the train hobby aisle at Hobby Lobby and you can glue that to wire armatures to make very realistic looking "trees." And you can do pretty much anything you want with sculpey clay. I made some graveyard headstones and some stone walls out of sculpey that look amazingly realistic.
I dunno, as I said, I tend to get obsessive about this sort of thing. I think it's cool, but I have no idea how the players are going to react.
Thanks for the response. I'll put you down in the "meh" category. :)
I apparently gave the wrong impression. I very much like the idea, but only under limited circumstances. I think 3D terrain can really add a lot to certain types of encounters, but adds little value in regular use. (and virtually no value outside of combat/potential combat situations).
Thanks for the response. I'll put you down in the "meh" category. :)I apparently gave the wrong impression. I very much like the idea, but only under limited circumstances. I think 3D terrain can really add a lot to certain types of encounters, but adds little value in regular use. (and virtually no value outside of combat/potential combat situations).
I think there can be value outside of combat. It's not easy with 2D maps to know if your characters are directly below a particular room in a multi-story building, but with a 3D map, it's fairly easy to see that. It is sometimes difficult to tell in 2D maps if you have cover or not, or if someone else (like a city guard on a wall) does. Difficult terrain is usually just some symbol on a 2D map, and I frequently see players miss the symbol, but if you have real rocks and bushes... well, it's pretty obvious when the terrain is difficult. Or impassable.
I set up the first planned encounter in my study with the old broken down tower ruins and the bandits on the makeshift platform built into the ruins....
It was pretty cool looking. Plus it was immediately clear where the terrain was difficult, the walls were breached and there was partial and total cover.
I don't plan on having everything in 3D, but I do want to introduce 3D terrain into most encounters and I do want the payers to move around a 3D palace and get to know the place visually instead of relying on hand-drawn maps to remember where to find the bathrooms, for instance.
I still have high hopes that it's going to be a fun thing for the group. But I've been wrong before. It's still fun making the terrain regardless.
I've just started making worldworks 3d terrain. Its taken a while to get a few tiles made, but I'm getting faster as I go. Im going to be using it for special encounters only. I have a few battle mats and a big pad of 1" grid paper that my wife uses to make regular encounter maps.
The wow factor is definitely there with the 3d terrain when you show players fro the first time though :)
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I am one of those insane fools who became highly addicted to using 3d terrain. It started with Dwarven Forge, but it wasn't long until I discovered http://www.hirstarts.com and that was all she wrote.
It has become integral in my gaming hobby. The synergy between forced use of miniatures in the current rules 3.+ and 3d terrain is irresistible.
Plus it is just plain fun.
I also do foamcore, but nothing to this degree.
http://gidian-gelaende.de/Material_HP/Wolfgang/Tut_Vampirburg/album/index.h tml
The captions are in German but the pics speak for themselves.
All you need is a color printer, some cardstock paper,an exacto knife, scissors and glue and you are in business.
check out worldworksgames.com they have printable 3d terrain that works perfectly with pathfinder.
We have used terrain a couple times, it really makes the night memorable
Contains some possible spoilers from Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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We have used terrain a couple times, it really makes the night memorable
Contains some possible spoilers from Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne
How'd you build the hex map? If it's a kit, I'm dying to do that. If it's custom, you're awesome and I'll simply be jealous and give you the kudos you deserve.
Thanks for the link to the galleries, by the way. Always fun to see what others do with their adventures.
All you need is a color printer, some cardstock paper,an exacto knife, scissors and glue and you are in business.
check out worldworksgames.com they have printable 3d terrain that works perfectly with pathfinder.
I did check it out, and it looks pretty cool. I may get a sample to see how it looks.
Right now I'm pretty pleased with the foam core poster paper for my palace. But it's pretty plain white looking compared to those models...
That's a nice link, I truly appreciate it and have bookmarked it.
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All you need is a color printer, some cardstock paper,an exacto knife, scissors and glue and you are in business.
check out worldworksgames.com they have printable 3d terrain that works perfectly with pathfinder.
I absolutely love Worldworks. I have quite a few of the sets and have big dreams of building tons of terrain. Unfortunately I have only brought one piece to a game session ... so far.
Two weeks ago I put together an Inn for an encounter in the Pathfinder Society scenario I was running. I got the board out, arranged all of the pieces, and set the stage for a lively fight ....
Only my PCs walk in, turn the antagonist friendly, arrange a deal and walk out in about 2 minutes. =)
Wow. Those Kingmaker hex tiles are awesome. What a great idea...just plop them on as they are explored.
I haven't used 3D terrain much but do have some of the Worldworks sets that I've built. I often combine 2D maps with 3D bits (vegetation, rocks, carts, buildings, columns, rubble, etc.) to give a bit of pop...we have tons of little bits like this in our group's game room and it comes in handy.
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We have used terrain a couple times, it really makes the night memorable
Contains some possible spoilers from Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne
How'd you build the hex map? If it's a kit, I'm dying to do that. If it's custom, you're awesome and I'll simply be jealous and give you the kudos you deserve.
Thanks for the link to the galleries, by the way. Always fun to see what others do with their adventures.
I believe that hex maping is from Games Workshop's "Mighty Empires" set. They are made of plastic, come unpainted and you can interlock them however you want
Here's a few options:
Worldworks Games (already mentioned) here at the Paizo store.
Fat Dragon Games
Dave's Games
I'm a miniature wargamer, and have lots of homemade trees and hills. Buildings tend to be more expensive or time consuming, but the paper terrain works pretty well. I've got lots of Dave's Games models built with foamboard backing. Great for city set-ups.
The biggest problem I've found with 3d terrain for rpgs is that the interiors are too small compared to be miniature base sizes. Minis on a 1" base mean cool props like tables and chairs need to be removed.
The upside of paper terrain is that it's pretty quick to put together. The downside is that you really need to understand your printer options, and hopefully have refillable ink cartridges on hand.
Other links:
Terragenesis - lots of cool homemade terrain, some great, some not so good.
http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/
Hirstarts.com (already mentioned) - labor intensive, and a bit messy, but lots of fun.
I believe that hex maping is from Games Workshop's "Mighty Empires" set. They are made of plastic, come unpainted and you can interlock them however you want
Yes you are right! The kingmaker tiles are from that and we add extra hexes as we have more area to explore. We have different colored flags for areas explored vs area claimed. (and no flags on unexplored). There are also pieces to put on for interesting terrain like ruins or forts. Unfortunately I haven't kept up on pictures for that. Next game in April I will take some more and update.
It helps having two miniatures gamers in my regular Pathfinder groups. Not only do they already have a ton of painted figures and terrain, they have the experience on how to make a one off session like that work. Both sessions I had to make up some rules to make it work and re-arrange the encounter a bit, but they agree those have been two of the most memorable in the gaming years (and we have been playing since the early 80's)