Hi, we have a problem: how to power up the druid wild shape, using only the pf core manual and the apg. Completes from 3.5 (adv, arc, div, war) are eligible for feats, upon dm approval. How can I get the maximum from the wild shape? Like forms other than the base form on the pf. I play a 6th lev half-elf druid with natural spells and augment summoning. I don't want to go pp, I just want to know what can I do with my wild shape class feature, to power up it. Thanks to all :)
To make the most out of wildshape, you really need to build for it. High strength, power attack, cleave, vital strike, etc. Think 'how would I build a high-damage fighter'. Then go through the beastiaries for good shapes to use (hint: A hippopotamus vital strike is cwaaaazy). The Dire Tiger is probably some of the best all-round bang for your buck.
And then, of course, make the best out of your animal companion as well.
The bottom line, though, is that making something good out of wild shape, you really have to build specifically for it.
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If you're playing in a high point-buy game, you may want to consider a level of Monk. It's only worthwhile if you're going to have a very high Wisdom, and if your focus is Wild Shape in a low point-buy game you're Wisdom isn't going to be that high. I'm playing a Druid in a 25 point buy game, and I'm going with Wisdom as my prime attribute, and all of my physical attributes next. At 6th level, with a headband, that Monk level is already a +5 to my AC (including touch AC) and to my CMD. Eventually it'll be a +9 to both.
Again, this doesn't work if you're going to just boost your Strength with all of your level adds. But, if you do plenty of offensive casting, it keeps the save DC of your spells high, at the expense of your Strength. Not a trade-off everyone would want to make, but something to consider.
I also think the Craft Wondrous Item feat is especially good for a Druid, since most of the items you really want can be made with that feat.
Sorry, I wasn't cearly. First of all, the druid is my gf's pc, I write in first person 'cause it's more practical. Second: we don't we use point buy, we rolled our pcs and we had the choice from the rolled dices and the 18-16-14-12-10-8 array. That's huge, I know. So, the druid has the array, and it's not specifically builded onto wild shape. She want to make a mix, good spellcasting (sleet storm, my dwarf transmuter don't have it already - yes, i play a dwarf wiz. Concept on the run :)), she has like wis 20, but she want to take some wild shape up to go into damage dealing. Can you suggest some good balance? Take into account that the dwarf fighter (spiked chain focus) is going to leave the party, we have a twf ranger to dd, so, by the end of this piece of campaing, i suppose that my brother dwarf is going to rest, and we cannot take him. So, I would like to help my gf to make a good druid that mix spells and wild shaping. I know, it's not exactly an optimization, but any advice on this style is welcomed.
As long as we're in topic, just a question on wild shape: it's says that it works like beast shape, but since the wild shape description doesn't mention magical beast, I suppose that she cannot wild shape in a magical beast, right?
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I suppose that she cannot wild shape in a magical beast, right?
Correct.
At level 6 the most fearsome combat form is Dire Lion. 5 attacks on a charge, pretty good damage on them too, along with grab.If large is too big go with the Dionychous (sp?) or if you need to fly pick the Petradon (or the Dire Bat if you need maneuverability more than speed/damage)
Take the deinochyus with 5 attacks.
Cast magic fang on yourself to get +1 to hit and damage
Wear an amulet of natural armor , but instead of getting an enhancement bonus , get one that adds 1d6 points of elemental damage.
I would recommend a level dip into monk for a druid. You need similar stats to a monk anyways based on wild shape only increasing your stats and not taking on the creatures stats.
I have my monk1/druid12 spend all time in earth elemental form and is pretty much unkillable.
I don't think my gf want to get 1 monk lev, as the druid isn't lawful. What about some useful feat? She have augment summoning and natural spells yet, she's oriented to take heavy armor prof, so she can get darkwood full plate. It seems she's got a major concern on AC, but I think she can get more useful option from the feats. Str is not really high, for she started with the spellcasting druid concept, but now she want go in the combat. Now, she want to go druid only. What feats I can suggest from pf/apg manuals? Aside aspect of the beast, that's not a huge priority (even if night sense or wild istinct are nice), and improved initiative, I can't see druid specific feat, so I don't now how to suggest some feat to get more combat efficiency.
I don't think my gf want to get 1 monk lev, as the druid isn't lawful. What about some useful feat? She have augment summoning and natural spells yet, she's oriented to take heavy armor prof, so she can get darkwood full plate. It seems she's got a major concern on AC, but I think she can get more useful option from the feats. Str is not really high, for she started with the spellcasting druid concept, but now she want go in the combat. Now, she want to go druid only. What feats I can suggest from pf/apg manuals? Aside aspect of the beast, that's not a huge priority (even if night sense or wild istinct are nice), and improved initiative, I can't see druid specific feat, so I don't now how to suggest some feat to get more combat efficiency.
Without the physical stats, mostly strength and con it won't work. Even if she only has a 14 in strength she should be ok. If the game has not been going on too long maybe the DM will allow her to switch stats around.
If the game has not started yet I would suggest
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 18
Cha 8
In first instance, thanks to all
@SiegLord: surely a thoughful play is preminent, but I want to give her some good advice on what feats consider. I was thinking of this list of feats: improved grapple (wild shape make this viable, i think, with large/huge forms - maybe weapon focus on grapple?), improved initiative (first to go, first to kill), aspect of the beast (what options? Night sense give her darkvision...). What about heavy armor prof? Do you think it worth a feat slot?
If the game has not started yet I would suggestStr 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 18
Cha 8
I checked now: the stats are 16-12-16-11-18-8, in order, with the +2 half-elf on str (14 base), and the lev up point on int. She has a +2 wis and +2 str from magic items. Wild shape could be effective, after all.
So, natural bond: she's got animal companion, campaign already started. She's got a Roc, next level he's going to be large, has fly, and can do 3 attack/round. I normally cast haste at the start of combat.
When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack (including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability).Here is what Rake ability say
Rake (Ex)
A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks under certain conditions, typically when it grapples its foe. In addition to the options available to all grapplers, a monster with the rake ability gains two free claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe. The bonus and damage caused by these attacks is included in the creature’s description. A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn already grappling to use its rake—it can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.Format: rake (2 claws +8, 1d4+2); Location: Special Attacks.
I am going to hit the FAQ button on this because the rules are obviously contradictory.
How can you charge and begin your turn grappling at the same time?
Just in case... I don't see anything wrong: if you read the srd you quoted, we have some keywords:
A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks under certain conditions, typically when it grapples its foe.
Imho, it means that you can have other conditions that let you make the rake attack. One of this conditions is the rake attack, where you can make a full attack, including the rake attack if you have the rake ability. I think this is one of the "certain conditions" that outbound the "typically when it grapples". I don't see contradictions on them.
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The Pounce ability includes an exception to the general rule of raking. Without the pounce ability, the only way to get a rake in would be to already have a grappled condition, usually via a Grab. The specific ability Pounce supersedes the general conditions of Rake.
Specific:
Pounce (Ex) When a creature with this special attack makes a charge, it can make a full attack (including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability).
General:
Rake (Ex) A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks under certain conditions, typically when it grapples its foe. In addition to the options available to all grapplers, a monster with the rake ability gains two free claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe. The bonus and damage caused by these attacks is included in the creature's description. A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn already grappling to use its rake—it can't begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.
I cannot recommend enough Craft Wondrous Item for druids, even melee ones.
One of the major problems with Druids is the gear is mostly meaningless once you're in wildform. One of the major problems with Druids in general is that ALL THE GEAR is built for people who aren't you. You can nab Craft Wondrous Item as an early feat, and take all the loot you get in your game and sell it for components, then craft things you can use, like "amulets of natural armor with mighty fists also added in there" (when is that going to be for sale in a shop?) or belts of strength, or other wondrous items that remain active while in wildform.
For low level forms, velociraptor is where you want to be. I think the preferred Pathfinder term is "Deinonychus." Great movement, great attacks.
In first instance, thanks to all
@SiegLord: surely a thoughful play is preminent, but I want to give her some good advice on what feats consider. I was thinking of this list of feats: improved grapple (wild shape make this viable, i think, with large/huge forms - maybe weapon focus on grapple?), improved initiative (first to go, first to kill), aspect of the beast (what options? Night sense give her darkvision...). What about heavy armor prof? Do you think it worth a feat slot?
If the game has not started yet I would suggestStr 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 18
Cha 8I checked now: the stats are 16-12-16-11-18-8, in order, with the +2 half-elf on str (14 base), and the lev up point on int. She has a +2 wis and +2 str from magic items. Wild shape could be effective, after all.
So, natural bond: she's got animal companion, campaign already started. She's got a Roc, next level he's going to be large, has fly, and can do 3 attack/round. I normally cast haste at the start of combat.
She is set up with the correct stats if the order is correct. The heavy armor prof feat is worth it, but I would not take it until level 10 or later. That is about the time she should be able to afford dragonhide armor.
Spell Focus and Augment Summoning should also be picked up at some point.
Lions and Tigers are great. Remember that Wild Shape requires that the druid be "familiar with" the animal that you are turning into.
I believe you have to be 8th level druid to actually get the 5 attacks, as you can use Pounce, but don't get Rake yet (it's included in Beast Shape III, but not Beast Shape II).
Greater Magic Fang is awesome, and Bull's Strength is very solid (although won't fully stack with the +2 from a magic item). Since almost all attacks are primary, they get the full strength modifier to damage. Extend spell can be your best friend to keep GMF, Barkskin, etc., going for a long time, so you're not wasting time casting at the start of a battle.
It's pricey, but +1 Wild armor (dragonhide breastplate/fullplate, etc.) is fully worth investing in (16k to buy the +1 Wild). Stacks with Barkskin of course. I don't see too much point in pouring money into an amulet of natural armor.
Feats: Lunge (since most animals have short range for their size (5' on most Large forms, 10' on most Huge'), Vital Strike to tear past DR. Weapon Focus type feats (on specific 'weapons' like claw/bite) can be tough to justify. Power Attack likewise you better be *hitting* plenty before taking it, but it does up damage a lot, since it applies fully to all primary attacks.
Good luck - my fiance and I are also playing a druid/wizard combo.
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You might want to read or have her read some of the works by Treantmonk. You might want to pay particular attention to his spirit of the beast build. He is a superior optimizer and I'm sure will have some excellent advice for you and her.