Help with an elven fighter build

[gnomewizard]

Ok so I need help. I have not played a Fighter in PF, and I have not played anything but small characters since 2002.
I want to make an elven fighter that is all over the board and using his elven curveblade or other finessable weapons to do damage.

I rolled his stats (with no mods yet) 15, 16, 13, 13, 13, 11

I need him at 2nd level and at 7th.
So yeah I need help with Feats, stat placement and items to buy.

I can use Core & APG

[Jadeite]

Don't use Weapon Finesse. Even for rogues, using a two-handed weapon deals more damage. The curveblade is still a good weapon, just ignore the finessable part.

Str 16, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 15, Wis 13, Cha 11

[Helaman]

I am a strong believer that you are gonna need some Con score...

Str 13
Dex 16 (18)
Con 15 (13)
Int 11 (13)
Wis 13
Cha 13

This gives you a character that is more or less 13 across the board. Makes you a superior specimen. Having 13 Charisma doesnt hurt none, and to be fair unless you want to multiclass as a wizard, 13 int is plently.

At 4th level whach your stat increase into Str.

Level 1 feat - Weapon Finese
Level 2 Combat feat - weapon focus
level 3 feat - You choose. I suggest Dodge but anything goes here.
level 4 Weapon spec - Curve Blade
level 5 Again, you choose but possibly Expertise (You have no shield and so you need an edge)
level 6 Mobility?
level 7 Spring attack?

More or less throw anything you don't like out the window after level 4.

Otherwise

Str 15
Dex 16 (18)
Con 13 (11)
Int 11 (13)
Wis 13
Cha 13

And use level 4 to boost Con to 12.

As for equipment - you want Light armour or Mithril medium armour... after level 3 as a fighter, you can move full speed in it, and you can increase max dex by 1 getting you to fully use your Dex 18 bonus to AC... I like mobility because it

For magic, hate to say it but go with the vanilla stuff - Guantlets of Ogre Power (+1 str) will be enough to boost you to the next bracket for bonuses. Your AC will be a trifle sucky so rings or amulets are sought after and flaming +1 will make a fine curve blade for your character... and flaming weapons have many uses beyond looking badass and inflicting extra damaing.

[Mahorfeus]

Unless you are planning to be a switch hitter, Weapon Finesse is unnecessary for a melee fighter build. In which case, you don't really need too much Dex. I'd personally put more into Con, since that The curve blade is a good weapon regardless though.

Jadeite's stat allocation looks solid to me.

[gnomewizard]

Wow so jade why do you not like the finesse stuff?
And keep the suggestions coming. I am working from home today so i can keep checking in.

[gnomewizard]

Mahorfeus wrote:

Unless you are planning to be a switch hitter, Weapon Finesse is unnecessary for a melee fighter build. In which case, you don't really need too much Dex. I'd personally put more into Con, since that The curve blade is a good weapon regardless though.

Jadeite's stat allocation looks solid to me.

What about feats? Dodge, mobility spring attack?

[Brambleman]

finesse doent boost damage, so unless you have another reason for having high DEX, like being an archer half the fight, It is more effective to focus on STR and put the feat somewhere else.

[Mahorfeus]

gnomewizard wrote:

Mahorfeus wrote:

Unless you are planning to be a switch hitter, Weapon Finesse is unnecessary for a melee fighter build. In which case, you don't really need too much Dex. I'd personally put more into Con, since that The curve blade is a good weapon regardless though.

Jadeite's stat allocation looks solid to me.

What about feats? Dodge, mobility spring attack?

With Jadeite's stats, you'll be getting a +4 to-hit at level 1, with a +9 to your damage with the curve blade. You have two feats to spend from the get-go, so it might be wise to just try to max out damage.

I'd suggest getting Power Attack and/or Weapon Focus (elven curve blade) at level 2. WF will negate Power Attack's -1 penalty for the time being, and you will get a whopping damage modifier of +12, with +4 to your attack roll.

I recommend pairing whichever feat you get at level 1 with Iron Will, since the Fighter's Will save is rather shoddy, and your BAB isn't high enough to afford the better feats quite yet.

[Crestar]

gnomewizard wrote:

Ok so I need help. I have not played a Fighter in PF, and I have not played anything but small characters since 2002.

I want to make an elven fighter that is all over the board and using his elven curveblade or other finessable weapons to do damage.

I rolled his stats (with no mods yet) 15, 16, 13, 13, 13, 11

I need him at 2nd level and at 7th.
So yeah I need help with Feats, stat placement and items to buy.

I can use Core & APG

SO, with these stats I would go 2hf, though I will provide builds for both.

2hf
Str 16 (17) Add your 4th level point here
Dex 13 (15)
Con 15 (13)
Int 13 (15)
Wis 13
Cha 11

1st Feat: Weapon Focus ( Great Sword )
1st Bonus: Power Attack
2nd Bonus: Cleave
3rd Feat: Toughness
4th Bonus: Weapon Specialization

This build favors heavy armor with a strong strikes.

This along with Two-handed fighter alt advancement from APHB,
you would get Shattering Strike, Overhand Chop and Weapon Training.

Now if building a 2wf.
Str 15 (16) Add your 4th level point here
Dex 16 (18)
Con 13 (11)
Int 13 (15)
Wis 13
Cha 11

1st Feat: Two-weapon fighting
1st Bonus: Double Slice
2nd Bonus: Weapon Focus
3rd Feat: Toughness / Two-Weapon Defense / Weapon of Finesse ( This will depend on what matters to you and the way the game is shaping. Do you need more ac? more to hit? or more hp? I would go with AC at this point in leveling.)
4th Bonus: Weapon Specialization

Take Two-weapon Warrior from APHB,
you would get Defensive Flurry.

This Fighter would focus on Dex in the future to keep improving Two-Weapon fighting as he levels.

Note: If your GM allows outside feats, Oversized 2 weapon fighting allows the use of larger weapons with less penalties. Also many versions exist of a feat that allows dex damage instead of str. If this is allowed switch the str with the con.

[BobChuck]

gnomewizard wrote:

Wow so jade why do you not like the finesse stuff?

And keep the suggestions coming. I am working from home today so i can keep checking in.

I am going to put it in as simple, straightforward, black and white terms as I can: If you want to do lots of damage in melee combat, you must stack strength. Period.

Even Monks. Even Rogues. All possible builds of all possible classes. (yes, there are a few niche exceptions, but that's not relevant).

This is a fact of the system that you have to accept if you are going to produce effective melee warriors.

It's not about the Attack bonus (which is easy to get from lots of places), it's not about the weapons base damage (which is trivial), it's about how much you add to damage.

Example: At forth level, with an 18 Strength, you are adding 6 damage to each hit; with power attack, you take a -2 attack penalty and get to add another 6 damage, for a total of +12. If you're using an 18-20x2 weapon, that +12 gets doubled on a hit. Plus there's Rage or Smite or Weapon Specialization/Training. And this is for fourth level; it increases significantly as levels rise. Comparatively, the weapon's base damage is an average of 7 at best, and will not increase.

[gnomewizard]

Crestar wrote:

gnomewizard wrote:

Ok so I need help. I have not played a Fighter in PF, and I have not played anything but small characters since 2002.

I want to make an elven fighter that is all over the board and using his elven curveblade or other finessable weapons to do damage.

I rolled his stats (with no mods yet) 15, 16, 13, 13, 13, 11

I need him at 2nd level and at 7th.
So yeah I need help with Feats, stat placement and items to buy.

I can use Core & APG

SO, with these stats I would go 2hf, though I will provide builds for both.

2hf
Str 16 (17) Add your 4th level point here
Dex 13 (15)
Con 15 (13)
Int 13 (15)
Wis 13
Cha 11

1st Feat: Weapon Focus ( Great Sword )
1st Bonus: Power Attack
2nd Bonus: Cleave
3rd Feat: Toughness
4th Bonus: Weapon Specialization

This build favors heavy armor with a strong strikes.

This along with Two-handed fighter alt advancement from APHB,
you would get Shattering Strike, Overhand Chop and Weapon Training.

Wow this sounds really great. I guess i was thinking of an elf moving in attacking and moving away. It sounds like you guys are saying he would not have to do that he could stand in melee and really dish.

[Dragonsong]

gnomewizard wrote:

Wow this sounds really great. I guess i was thinking of an elf moving in attacking and moving away. It sounds like you guys are saying he would not have to do that he could stand in melee and really dish.

Sadly In PF mobile/skirmisher melee fighters do not make a strong showing damage wise, but then again neither do maneuver based melee characters either. You pretty much stand there and wail on a target till it drops and move to the next the rounds you move damage drops off pretty drastically and people dont seem to like that.

[Jadeite]

The Dawnflower Dervish Archetype is really good, especially at high levels. You lose Armor Training, though.
Mobile Fighters are nice, too, but they gain no true Weapon Training and their 15th level ability isn't as awesome as an additional attack.

[CalebTGordan]

If you insist on the high dex, weapon finesse build, consider range weapons and pick up point blank shot, rapid shot, and/or precise shot. Then, your combat style can be to throw daggers/axes/hammers at the enemy before rushing in with your main. This only works though if you have another melee combatant in your party to hold off the bad guys while you move in slowly.

However, if you are the only melee combat character then forget weapon finese and go for a higher Strength with a two-handed weapon.

[Peeved Nixie]

Yes, go with a high Str and the elven curve blade. Try Power Attack, Cleave, Point Blank Shot, etc. with two "lines" of feats. One for damage and the other for finesse-ing or archery. Maybe be a two-handed fighter and dip into Ranger for two-hand weapon or archery feats. That way you can be well balanced with a melee fighter that uses that Dex boost from your race for archery/finesse.

For scores:
STR-16 (17 from 4th level)
DEX-15 (17)
CON-13 (11)
INT-13 (15)
WIS-13
CHA-11

This will let you focus on melee and finesse/ranged equally, and then Con and Cha will be your worst stats, and Con won't be important if you have a high enough AC, and Cha won't be necessary for a fighter.

[voska66]

Dragonsong wrote:

gnomewizard wrote:

Wow this sounds really great. I guess i was thinking of an elf moving in attacking and moving away. It sounds like you guys are saying he would not have to do that he could stand in melee and really dish.

Sadly In PF mobile/skirmisher melee fighters do not make a strong showing damage wise, but then again neither do maneuver based melee characters either. You pretty much stand there and wail on a target till it drops and move to the next the rounds you move damage drops off pretty drastically and people dont seem to like that.

Mobile fighters are quite tough. The combats last a longer though. I've only used them from DM point of view though. I find with running the bad guys that trading full attacks with party leads to being a dead bad guy right away. As a PC though I don't see this as advantageous. The PC has more magic items and has more than one encounter.

[Zalco]

gnomewizard wrote:

Ok so I need help. I have not played a Fighter in PF, and I have not played anything but small characters since 2002.

I want to make an elven fighter that is all over the board and using his elven curveblade or other finessable weapons to do damage.

I rolled his stats (with no mods yet) 15, 16, 13, 13, 13, 11

I need him at 2nd level and at 7th.
So yeah I need help with Feats, stat placement and items to buy.

I can use Core & APG

I'll say forget about the numbers and try to imagine you character. Write a background story for him, then take the numbers at try fit them to your charactor as well as you can. Take feats and skill that fit your character.

Characters made this way are always more fun to play, because you can know what they are about. If you start with the numbers you risk that your character will just be a bunch of number - and there will be less roleplaying and more moving a random miniature around.

The numbers really doesn't matter. It is you putter life into your character that makes him powerfull.