I have a player rolling up a Monk for our new campaign. After reading the text, it seems like his Flurry of Blows should be -4/-4 at level 1. I don't see where they are getting the -1/-1 from. Furthermore, I don't understand why sometimes the BaB remains the same from level to level, but the FoB goes up, or where they're getting the extra attack at level 6, etc. Can someone please explain these to me?
Further, the Monk is considered to have a full base attack bonus, like a fighter's BAB, but only when flurrying, and thus the penalty goes down to -1/-1.
Technicality: Does the monk have full BAB only when flurrying, or only when using unarmed attacks/monk weapons?
I have a player rolling up a Monk for our new campaign. After reading the text, it seems like his Flurry of Blows should be -4/-4 at level 1. I don't see where they are getting the -1/-1 from. Furthermore, I don't understand why sometimes the BaB remains the same from level to level, but the FoB goes up, or where they're getting the extra attack at level 6, etc. Can someone please explain these to me?
It's like this: When they flurry, they have full BAB, and their attacks are as if they had two-weapon fighting, using a light off-hand weapon.
BAB = Level, 1 in that case.
TWF penalties: -2/-2. That makes -1/-1.
Technicality: Does the monk have full BAB only when flurrying, or only when using unarmed attacks/monk weapons?The full BAB is only when a flurry happens, which requires a full-attack action. Normal BAB when just making standard attacks, such as after using a move action.
So, at 9th level, the monk's single attack bonus is worse than his first two flurry attacks? How does this work? What if he wants to see if his first attack hits before he decides whether to make a full attack?
This really doesn't make logical sense to me.
Developer
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So, at 9th level, the monk's single attack bonus is worse than his first two flurry attacks? How does this work? What if he wants to see if his first attack hits before he decides whether to make a full attack?This really doesn't make logical sense to me.
Well a monk would have to decide to flurry before attacking. It's like two weapon fighting. You can't make an attack with your main hand and hold off on a decision to strike with your off hand. The main hand suffers a penalty on the first attack, so you decide before you make it.
Treat it like that. They declare a flurry. Then you know the bonuses.
The tricky stuff comes with expertise, since its based off BAB, and you have a different BAB during your flurry than you have when you make an AoO, but the same penalty is supposed to apply throughout the round, and your AC shouldn't based on you making an AoO.
For me I let the full attack penalty apply, even though it's more than granted by the standard BAB. You decide to take the penalty on the first attack. You decide to flurry before that. Once you decide to flurry you have fighter BAB for all purposed. Ergo you gain the bonuses and penalties of fighter BAB throughout the round.
Once you decide to flurry you have fighter BAB for all purposed. Ergo you gain the bonuses and penalties of fighter BAB throughout the round.
Just a little bit of nitpickery here,
The monk does not have Full BAB throughout the round. He Flurries at full BAB, but any action or check outside of that is at his BAB (CMD, AoOs, CMB, whatever else BAB might affect)
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Developer
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Just a little bit of nitpickery here,
The monk does not have Full BAB throughout the round. He Flurries at full BAB, but any action or check outside of that is at his BAB (CMD, AoOs, CMB, whatever else BAB might affect)
Absolutely right. I misspoke. I should have said, "throughout that full attack routine" Though, monks do get to treat their level as BAB for all CMB checks at 3rd level.
So, at 9th level, the monk's single attack bonus is worse than his first two flurry attacks? How does this work? What if he wants to see if his first attack hits before he decides whether to make a full attack?This really doesn't make logical sense to me.
Well a monk would have to decide to flurry before attacking. It's like two weapon fighting. You can't make an attack with your main hand and hold off on a decision to strike with your off hand. The main hand suffers a penalty on the first attack, so you decide before you make it.
Treat it like that. They declare a flurry. Then you know the bonuses.
So a 9th-level monk can declare a flurry, make the first attack, then decide not to flurry after all, and do some other (move) action.
So, essentially, they do get flurry BAB on a single attack. Unless they move first.
Still doesn't make sense to me.
So, at 9th level, the monk's single attack bonus is worse than his first two flurry attacks? How does this work? What if he wants to see if his first attack hits before he decides whether to make a full attack?This really doesn't make logical sense to me.
Well a monk would have to decide to flurry before attacking. It's like two weapon fighting. You can't make an attack with your main hand and hold off on a decision to strike with your off hand. The main hand suffers a penalty on the first attack, so you decide before you make it.
Treat it like that. They declare a flurry. Then you know the bonuses.
So a 9th-level monk can declare a flurry, make the first attack, then decide not to flurry after all, and do some other (move) action.
So, essentially, they do get flurry BAB on a single attack. Unless they move first.
Still doesn't make sense to me.
I'm fairly certain it does not work this way, since you've declared your flurry(a full round action) even if you only make that one attack your still using a full round action to do so and thus you cannot move(except with a 5 Foot Step I believe)
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Developer
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I'm fairly certain it does not work this way, since you've declared your flurry(a full round action) even if you only make that one attack your still using a full round action to do so and thus you cannot move(except with a 5 Foot Step I believe)
Correct. No Backsies. You might give up your subsequent attacks, but just by initiating a flurry you have used a full round action. You've got you 5ft step, some free actions, and your swift left. You cannot move save that 5ft once you've performed a full round action.
A flurry is full round or you don't get the bonuses. The declaration and initial attack make it full round, or you don't get the BAB bonus. No move after, even though it's been one attack. Same thing happens to a fighter with two swords (though there's no bonus, just a penalty. Regardless, such a fighter, declaring a two weapon attack and taking the penalty has decided to take a full round action. He can't move either.
Remember that you can take a 5' step during a flurry or full attack, though, so even if the first target goes down faster than expected, you might still be able to use the rest of your flurry.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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So a 9th-level monk can declare a flurry, make the first attack, then decide not to flurry after all
Flurry is a full round, so he wouldn't be able to move after taking the first flurry attack.
It only works the other way around, taking a single attack and then promoting it to a full round. That is something a Monk can not do (promote to flurry) but he could continue to take the full attack using his normal (non flurry) BAB and he couldn't get his extra flurry attacks.
So, this is something that every other character in the game can do (make a single attack, and then decide to full attack) that the monk cannot (or, technically, cannot with a flurry).
Yet again, this makes no sense to me.
Just to make this clear: this isn't a matter of misunderstanding the rules. It's a matter of me thinking the rules-as-is are nonsensical.
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Developer
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So, this is something that every other character in the game can do (make a single attack, and then decide to full attack) that the monk cannot (or, technically, cannot with a flurry).
Yet again, this makes no sense to me.
Just to make this clear: this isn't a matter of misunderstanding the rules. It's a matter of me thinking the rules-as-is are nonsensical.
The two weapon fighter (or ranger, or rogue, etc) cannot do it either. You've committed more effort to the type of attack you're doing.
If you want to let monks gain the bonuses and then only make one attack and get a full move, that's up to you. RAW they cannot. Keep in mind, actions are not the type of actions for the time they take, but the effort required. Trying to flurry, just beginning the sequence of fast hits, takes more effort and focus than simply swinging a single blade. Hence giving up the opportunity to move your speed (or take a different move action) later that round.
Also remember that the monk has maneuver training; which applies all the time. You can take Attacks of Opportunity and use them to do trips, disarms or sunder and you get to use your monk-level for BAB instead of the 3/4 BAB he uses for "normal" attacks.
So, this is something that every other character in the game can do (make a single attack, and then decide to full attack) that the monk cannot (or, technically, cannot with a flurry).
Yet again, this makes no sense to me.
Just to make this clear: this isn't a matter of misunderstanding the rules. It's a matter of me thinking the rules-as-is are nonsensical.
Every other character is also not allowed to just all of a sudden treat their level as BAB. This is a benefit feature, not a penalty. You'll hear no complaints from Monk-y Me.
Yar!
Sorry, but there is some rule-misunderstanding going on in here.
Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack
After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you've already taken a 5-foot step, you can't use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.
You can indeed declare a full-attack (a.k.a. a Flurry-of-Blows), make the first attack, and then decide to not continue, but instead move or perform a move-action.
The opposite is not true, which is what has been suggested by others. If what has been said by others here was true, then you could cleave or vital strike on the first attack, then decide to full attack. This is NOT true. You CAN start a full attack (flurry-of-blows, two-weapon-fighting, etc), and after the first attack, decide to not continue, but instead perform a move action.
~P
Edit: This means that if your monk's Flurry is better than a standard Attack Action, then you CAN initiate a flurry, and after the first attack, decide to stop and perform a move action instead of continuing. You just have to make the attack BEFORE the move.
~P
Nice catch Pirate.
Adding to this the fact that most times the Monk will use an "opening" maneuver after a move (trip, a perfect strike disarm), he will be likely to use full BAB almost always..
You can indeed declare a full-attack (a.k.a. a Flurry-of-Blows), make the first attack, and then decide to not continue, but instead move or perform a move-action.
This would lead to the really bizarre situation where a monk could punch and move with a better bonus than they can move and punch.
Does it matter that FoB is not explicitly a full attack - it's something that can be done "as a full-attack action"?
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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You can indeed declare a full-attack
The opposite is not true, which is what has been suggested by others. If what has been said by others here was true, then you could cleave or vital strike on the first attack
That rule implies a standard full attack, and Flurry is a two weapon full attack (not standard.) So whether or not you can Flurry with 1 attack and them move is entirely an "Ask your DM" question. Since it isn't made clear you can TWF as part of that first attack.
Nothing in the "take one attack then promote to flurry" stance is changed by this reversal in the rules, since all implications remain the same:
- You still can't take standard actions on the first attack like Cleave and Vital Strike
- You can't apply Full Action modification effects (like TWF, Flurry) since you are not taking a Full Attack action at the time.
So it comes down to the same thing as stated above.
You can take a single attack without Flurry BAB boost and without -2 TWF penalty as a monk, and choose to promote it to a Full Attack or make another move equiv action. If you promote, you are stuck doing standard attack (iterative) sequence without TWF and without Flurry.
Actually, flurry of blows is specifically referred to as a full-attack action, which is exactly what that rule falls under. It does not list any exceptions, so there is no specific rule to overrule the general. Even with TWF, you can still eschew your other attacks to be able to move.
If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.
Relevant text in bold. Flurrying is an iterative, TWF full-attack, with the only special rule being that the Monk uses his level as his BAB. So the rule Pirate quoted is relevant, as it succeeds this section.
Actually, flurry of blows is specifically referred to as a full-attack action, which is exactly what that rule falls under. It does not list any exceptions, so there is no specific rule to overrule the general. Even with TWF, you can still eschew your other attacks to be able to move.
Do you have a source for is? All I've found is a reference where it is done as a full attack action. If there isn't an "is", then it goes into that vast vaguely-defined area known as "GM discretion". If there is, then it's clear that this is a legitimate tactic.
Actually, flurry of blows is specifically referred to as a full-attack action, which is exactly what that rule falls under. It does not list any exceptions, so there is no specific rule to overrule the general. Even with TWF, you can still eschew your other attacks to be able to move.Do you have a source for is? All I've found is a reference where it is done as a full attack action. If there isn't an "is", then it goes into that vast vaguely-defined area known as "GM discretion". If there is, then it's clear that this is a legitimate tactic.
Now that is just semantics. If you're doing it as a full-attack action, then it clearly is one. There's no such thing as being able to do something as an action without it actually being that type of action - it makes no sense at all.
Actually, flurry of blows is specifically referred to as a full-attack action, which is exactly what that rule falls under. It does not list any exceptions, so there is no specific rule to overrule the general. Even with TWF, you can still eschew your other attacks to be able to move.Do you have a source for is? All I've found is a reference where it is done as a full attack action. If there isn't an "is", then it goes into that vast vaguely-defined area known as "GM discretion". If there is, then it's clear that this is a legitimate tactic.Now that is just semantics. If you're doing it as a full-attack action, then it clearly is one. There's no such thing as being able to do something as an action without it actually being that type of action - it makes no sense at all.
I stand up as a move action, which is clearly not a move. Anything that applies to me moving doesn't apply to me standing up.
By this logic, a flurry as a full-round attack is not a full-round attack, and anything that applies to the full-round attack (like being able to decide after the first attack) doesn't apply.
Actually, flurry of blows is specifically referred to as a full-attack action, which is exactly what that rule falls under. It does not list any exceptions, so there is no specific rule to overrule the general. Even with TWF, you can still eschew your other attacks to be able to move.Do you have a source for is? All I've found is a reference where it is done as a full attack action. If there isn't an "is", then it goes into that vast vaguely-defined area known as "GM discretion". If there is, then it's clear that this is a legitimate tactic.Now that is just semantics. If you're doing it as a full-attack action, then it clearly is one. There's no such thing as being able to do something as an action without it actually being that type of action - it makes no sense at all.
I stand up as a move action, which is clearly not a move. Anything that applies to me moving doesn't apply to me standing up.
By this logic, a flurry as a full-round attack is not a full-round attack, and anything that applies to the full-round attack (like being able to decide after the first attack) doesn't apply.
So in other words, you are saying:
"I flurry as a full-attack action, which is clearly not a full-attack. Anything that applies to me full-attacking doesn't apply to me flurrying."
This is a circular argument - it agrees with itself without actually resolving why it isn't considered a full-attack.
Your example is also flawed: standing up and moving are both considered move actions. The Core rulebook states this much. Things that apply to you "moving" don't apply to you "standing up," but things that apply to "move actions" would apply to both.
Flurry is your action for the round. If you choose to just hit once that is your business but your round is spent. You can 5ft or you can stand there like a post.
This is true because otherwise /it makes no sense/.
You do not get to declare 'I am flurrying' to get the bonus and then disregard the part of it you don't want to go do something else. Either flurry or don't.
If you want the option to decide to stop in mid attack and do something else, then Full Attack. Flurry isn't your choice. Flurry is a choice. "Do I decide to do this, or do i decide not to do this". You are giving up something by using it though- and what you are giving up is your ability to attack once and then decide if you will attack again or move.
The same thing is true of the Rapid Shot feat. It forces you to decide when you begin the round what you will do. You either rapid shot (as a full attack action) or you attack normally and can decide to stop and do something else after the first hit. Once the decision is made, it is made.
You only get the bonus when you take the associated action.
-S
Rapid Shot and Flurry of Blows are not even comparable.
Rapid Shot is done "When making a full-attack action." It is not a full-attack action in itself, it merely augments an iterative full-attack action that the archer is already making.
Flurrying is done "as a full-attack action," it doesn't modify the Monk's iterative full-attack as Rapid Shot does. In addition, unlike Rapid Shot, Flurry does not have penalties that apply to attacks after the first. There is no benefit to reap from doing this, asides from keeping your move action.
So in other words, you are saying:"I flurry as a full-attack action, which is clearly not a full-attack. Anything that applies to me full-attacking doesn't apply to me flurrying."
This is a circular argument - it agrees with itself without actually resolving why it isn't considered a full-attack.
Really, I don't know whether I would accept my own arguments - I'm playing devil's advocate here. That being said, I don't see anything circular about what you quoted:
"I flurry as a full-attack action," - statement of fact
"which is clearly not a full-attack." - statement of hypothetical fact, phrased as a definitive statement to parallel the prior example.
"Anything that applies to me full-attacking doesn't apply to me flurrying." - conclusion, based on the two prior facts.
Your example is also flawed: standing up and moving are both considered move actions. The Core rulebook states this much. Things that apply to you "moving" don't apply to you "standing up," but things that apply to "move actions" would apply to both.
Ok, I'll provide better examples, that specifically deal with actions. I went looking at Vital Strike first, but it doesn't use the "as an" language. After searching for "as an attack action" and "as a full-attack action", I came up with the following:
I do think it is against the spirit of the rules to get a bonus and not complete the action. It is gaming the system, whether it is intentional or not.
I think the spirit of the rules is more important than the letter of the rules.
RAW I do think it is possible, but I would not suggest a DM allow it.
Pirate appears to be mistaken.
Yar!
Sorry, but there is some rule-misunderstanding going on in here.
Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack
After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you've already taken a 5-foot step, you can't use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.
That rule applies to when you make the decision between Full Attack and Standard Attack actions, not changing your mind once you make the choice. Two-Weapon Fighting and Flurry of Blows (and Rapid Shot, I think) require a Full Attack action to trigger. Thus in order to gain the effects of one of them (specifically in this case, the BAB effect of Flurry of Blows), you must choose a Full Attack action. Once that choice is made, there is no provision for going back and changing it.
It's like this:
Situation 1 -- A fighter makes an attack without choosing between a Full Attack or Standard Attack action, then sees the result of that attack, and then decides whether to continue as a Full Attack action or to take a Move action.
Situation 2 -- A Monk declares a Flurry of Blows attack, making the choice THEN with that declaration to take a Full Attack action, and thus has no move action remaining regardless of how many attacks he makes.
You can indeed declare a full-attack (a.k.a. a Flurry-of-Blows), make the first attack, and then decide to not continue, but instead move or perform a move-action.
That is simply not what the rule says. Nowhere does it say you can "declare a full-attack" than then change your mind and take a move action. What it says is you can take an attack -- which can be part of a Standard Attack or a Full Attack -- and then choose between Full Attack or Standard Attack based on the result of that attack.
The rule Pirate suggests exists would basically eliminate all Two-Weapon Fighting penalties for the first attack (as well as the penalty for Rapid Shot).
The opposite is not true, which is what has been suggested by others. If what has been said by others here was true, then you could cleave or vital strike on the first attack, then decide to full attack. This is NOT true.
This is the case for precisely the same reason his earlier conclusion is wrong: a Vital Strike or Cleave -- like a Flurry of Blows -- requires a specific type of action be declared to activate it. And once a type of action is declared, there's nothing in the RAW to allow you to go back and change it. There rule he cites above only clarifies that you can also make that declaration after the first attack, though that first attack would not trigger any special effects or feats that require such a declaration (i.e., Cleave, Flurry of Blows, Scorpion Style, etc.).
A full attack can be stopped after the first attack, and if you haven't used your move action yet, you can use it now (with the standard limitations, like not being able to move in the same round as a 5-ft step).
Where do you get this? Where does it say a Full Attack action can be declared and then stopped, leaving a Move action available? I'm noting the name of the rule you cited:
Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack: After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you've already taken a 5-foot step, you can't use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.
That says nothing about stopping a Full Attack action. It says that you can make an attack -- which is available whether you end up choosing a Standard Attack action or a Full Attack action -- without deciding whether to make a Full Attack action or a Standard Attack action, and then decide whether to choose a Full Attack action to continue attacking or a Standard Attack action which leaves you with no more attacks but a Move action available.
Maybe it was meant to allow the stopping and then starting, but that's not what it says; and if it did say that, then why wouldn't every Two-Weapon Fighting attack go like this:
Player: I'm attacking, full attack bonus, no penalty.
DM: Okay, you hit.
Player: Okay, now I'm choosing to make it a Full Attack using both weapons, so I get a second attack with a penalty for dual-wielding . . . .
?
I am seeing it as a clarification of when the rules for Full Attack apply (i.e., when you can declare a full attack). It seems to me that it cannot be a "subset" of the Full Attack rules because it is clearly labeled "Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack. And the reason it is designated as the "first attack" is because it is in fact the first attack (even if it is the only one, it's still the first), and there still exists the possibility of more attacks if you chose to make a Full Attack action.The paragraph about Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack is under the Full Attack section, so I believe everything under the Full Attack section (including this paragraph) goes along with making a full attack. If you are going to apply the rules in this paragraph, it is because you are already making a full attack. However, this gives you the option to do something other than attack after the first attack. You can use a move action after the first attack, but it was the first attack because you were in the process for making multiple attacks. Otherwise, there would be no need to designate it as the first attack.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it almost seems like you are seeing the Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack paragraph as its own separate section that can be applied to any form of attack (single attack, full attack, attack of opportunity, etc).
In the example you give, if the player is making a full attack without penalty, then this player is not two-weapon fighting. Because preparing yourself to two-weapon fight means starting out with a penalty on the first attack.Well, that would be my point. In order to do the Two Weapon Fighting, you have to be doing a Full Attack in the first place; thus it is too late then to "decide" between a Full Attack and a Standard Attack because the decision has already been made. And once you've made a Full Attack (even if it's only one attack), you cannot then take a move action. Only if you made an attack that can be made with a Standard Attack (which a Flurry of Blows attack cannot be) can you then stop attacking and take a Move action.
And you are right about the wording not saying that your full attack stops. If says that after the first attack, you can do something else instead of making the rest of your attacks. But is "moving instead of continue attacking" all that different than "stop attacking and start moving"? And even if it is different, I'm not sure how the end result is any different.The difference is that once you have taken a Full Attack action, you cannot then take a move action. And in order to do Flurry of Blows, you must TAKE a Full Round action (in this case, Full Attack).
Or why you could turn one type of full attack into a different kind of full attack.
You can't. My point is that once you've chosen the Full Attack action, you don't have a move action left to take. The rule for deciding later applies when you take a normal attack -- which would be a Standard Action -- and then have the option of deciding to take a Full Attack action and taking your iterative attacks, or leaving it as a Standard Attack and taking a Move action.
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Let's break this down.
For some classes, whether they make one attack or a full round attack doesn't matter. For some it does.
In the case of the monk, in order to determine their bonus to hit on an attack, they must first determine whether it's a single attack or part of a full attack action.
Because of this fact, they have to make the decision before they roll, or they can't finish the attack because they cannot determine which bonus to add.
Additionally, pretty much the only time this would come up is if the monk dropped his target and wanted to move to the next one. Having already determined that he was using a full attack action, he could substitute the remainder of his flurry with shurikens or he could take his five foot step and be done.
Now, if the monk were to make a non-flurry attack, he would have the option of stopping after the first hit and moving like anyone else. But once he activates the unique feature that is the flurry of blows, he's locked himself into a full attack action.
In short, he can use his crappy attack bonus to potentially move after the first hit, or he can use his flurry attack bonus and resign himself to a 5ft step.
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Additionally, pretty much the only time this would come up is if the monk dropped his target and wanted to move to the next one. Having already determined that he was using a full attack action, he could substitute the remainder of his flurry with shurikens or he could take his five foot step and be done.
Now, if the monk were to make a non-flurry attack, he would have the option of stopping after the first hit and moving like anyone else. But once he activates the unique feature that is the flurry of blows, he's locked himself into a full attack action.
In short, he can use his crappy attack bonus to potentially move after the first hit, or he can use his flurry attack bonus and resign himself to a 5ft step.
Quote me the rule you are quoting. Please.
In point of fact, the only full attack action I see as being special, as in not being able to be stopped, would be a ranged attack using Manyshot, since it significantly changes the rules for that first attack.
From the rules:
Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack: After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have not already taken a move action this round. If you've already taken a 5-foot step, you can't use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.
Even as written, you could use a Manyshot attack as your first ranged attack, and still move afterwards. That, IMO, is not in the spirit.
From the PFRPG Core book, page 181:
Full-Round Action: A full-round action consumes all
your effort during a round. The only movement you can
take during a full-round action is a 5-foot step before,
during, or after the action. You can also perform free
actions
and swift actions (see below). See Table 8–2 for a
list of full-round actions.
Some full-round actions do not allow you to take a
5-foot step.
Some full-round actions can be taken as standard actions,
but only in situations when you are limited to performing
only a standard action during your round. The descriptions
of specific actions detail which actions allow this option.
From the PFRPG Core book, page 184:
Multiple Attacks: A character who can make more than
one attack per round must use the full-attack action
(see
Full-Round Actions) in order to get more than one attack.
From the PFRPG Core book, page 187:
Full Attack
If you get more than one attack per round because your
base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus
in Chapter 3), because you fight with two weapons or a
double weapon, or for some special
reason, you must use
a full-round action to get your additional
attacks. You do
not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of
time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before
assigning the later ones.
The only movement you can take during a full attack is a
5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between
your attacks.
If you get multiple attacks because your base attack
bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in
order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two
weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you
are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part
of the weapon first.
Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack: After
your first attack, you can decide to take a move action
instead of making your remaining attacks, depending
on how the first attack turns out and assuming you have
not already taken a move action this round. If you’ve
already taken a 5-foot step, you can’t use your move action
to move any distance, but you could still use a different
kind of move action.
From the PFRPG Core book, page 57:
Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a monk
can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action.
When doing so he may make one additional
attack using any combination of unarmed
strikes or attacks with a special monk
weapon (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff,
sai, shuriken, and siangham) as if
using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat
(even if the monk does not meet the
prerequisites for the feat). For the purpose of these
attacks, the monk’s base attack bonus is equal to his monk
level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a
prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.
At 8th level, the monk can make two additional attacks
when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-
Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the
prerequisites for the feat).
Hey, guess what? A Flurry of Blows is a full-attack action! That means that, per the Full-Attack Action rules, he can stop after the first attack and abort the attack into a move action (if he hasn't taken his 5 foot step).
Heck, looking at the write-up of the Manyshot feat, it lo8oks lik eyou can get the two arrows off, then abort to a move action.
From the PFRPG Core book, page 130:
Manyshot (Combat)
You can fire multiple arrows at a single target.
Prerequisites: Dex 17, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot,
base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a bow,
your first attack fires two arrows. If the attack hits, both
arrows hit. Apply precision-based damage (such as sneak
attack) and critical hit damage only once for this attack.
Damage bonuses from using a composite bow with a high
Strength bonus apply to each arrow, as do other damage
bonuses, such as a ranger’s favored enemy bonus. Damage
reduction and resistances apply separately to each arrow.
So, an archer with Manyshot could fire a double arrow as his first shot of his full attack action, then abort to a move action, per the rules.
Are we arguing RAW or RAI here? I think the issue is that some of you are arguing what the rules say you can do, while others are arguing what the rules are trying to limit you to.
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Look up the order of making an attack :)
Can't roll to hit until you can determine your modifiers. In monk terms, you can't determine those modifiers until you determine whether you're making a flurry or not. Order of operations dictates that in order to complete your attack roll, you must know the bonuses to add to the d20. In order to know the bonuses you're adding, you must know the type of attack you are making.
For most classes, bonuses are the same whether the attack is a single attack or part of a full attack. For those instances where they are not, in order to make the attack roll, you must make the choices necessary to determine the attack bonus to apply to the roll.
An inherent property of any system is order of application. Each action has a series of processes. Each process has a series of steps.
The very beginning of the chapter on combat describes how combat works. That's page 178, under attack roll. And I quote:
"When you make an attack roll, you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus."
You cannot proceed past this step until you determine your attack bonus.
The following section talks about determining your attack bonus. "Your attack bonus with a melee weapon is the following: Base attack bonus + Strength modifier+size modifier.
When you select which base attack bonus you're adding to the roll, you've effectively also determined what type of attack you're making on a monk, since flurry uses one bab, and non-flurry uses another.
So, for example, the monk makes his first attack using his flurry of blows attack bonus. He hits, and drops his enemy. At this point he attempts to activate the "deciding between an attack or a full attack section", which has general combat rules.
Now the problem occurs. Flurry of blows is a full attack action, which the monk has made the decision to use already. Because of this he can't decide between an attack or a full attack. He was forced earlier to lock himself into a full attack.
Now, if he was making a normal series of attacks instead of utilizing a special ability, according to the section on deciding, he could make his first attack without declaring whether that attack was a standard action or a full attack action. However, he IS using a special ability that requires a specific action type to use.