Due to Negative Energy Affinity, how does a Dhampir with Paladin levels actually work? Lay on Hands and Channel Positive Energy seem troublesome at best.
Due to Negative Energy Affinity, how does a Dhampir with Paladin levels actually work? Lay on Hands and Channel Positive Energy seem troublesome at best.
I can't view your link, and therefore cannot offer advice. Sorry.
Due to Negative Energy Affinity, how does a Dhampir with Paladin levels actually work? Lay on Hands and Channel Positive Energy seem troublesome at best.
I think you have kinda answered your own question... :p
Paladin Vampires? Pathfinders own Crack Suicide Squad!
I can't view your link, and therefore cannot offer advice. Sorry.
Hmm, crap.
Anyways, here's the ability that really comes into play here:
"Negative Energy Affinity: Dhampires are alive, but react to positive and negative energy as if it were undead -- positive energy harms it, negative energy heals it."
And here's the link typed out: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/humanoids/dhampir
You might be best served by looking at a more appropriate class for a Dhampir, possibly a Cavalier - there's really no way a Dhampir is going to become a Paladin, and I don't think they were designed with that class in mind :)
I've been having trouble with 2d0pfsrd, can't view it. I would allow you to reverse the positive/negative energy effects of the class. You can't help most living allies, but oh well.
You might be best served by looking at a more appropriate class for a Dhampir, possibly a Cavalier - there's really no way a Dhampir is going to become a Paladin, and I don't think they were designed with that class in mind :)
It's a shame really; it's a cool combination: maybe because opposing factions combined -- bad guys who turn good, good guys who turn bad, or just plain good- or bad-born creatures who turn to the opposing side due to their own nature (Nightcrawler, for instance) -- make for interesting characters.
I suppose I could just take two levels of Paladin and change, but sticking with one class is more appealing.
Is it possible to use these abilities without actually hurting myself? Like, could I heal someone with my Lay on Hands without taking damage from it, as long as I don't intend on healing myself with it?
I've been having trouble with 2d0pfsrd, can't view it. I would allow you to reverse the positive/negative energy effects of the class. You can't help most living allies, but oh well.
I'll talk with my DM, then. I hate having to do that though: special permission gets tedious and makes me feel like a rule-bender.
If nothing this proves him to be a truly selfless paladin. He can still use positive energy, but only to help others. Heck you can throw in some swell role playing about his one blackened hand that burns with pain as he heals others.
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I've been having trouble with 2d0pfsrd, can't view it. I would allow you to reverse the positive/negative energy effects of the class. You can't help most living allies, but oh well.I'll talk with my DM, then. I hate having to do that though: special permission gets tedious and makes me feel like a rule-bender.
There's no problem.
The Dhampir Paladin is channeling the positive energy into someone else, directly from his god. He's not utilizing it himself. Therefore, it doesn't affect him negatively.
What you end up with is a Paladin that can heal others, but never himself. I actually like that, it works well. His own taint prevents him from ever healing himself, only healing others. Sort of paying for the sins of his undead parent.
The more problematic one would be a Dhampir cleric of a good god. He would be unable to channel at all until he took selective channel and removed himself from the area of effect.
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there's really no way a Dhampir is going to become a Paladin, and I don't think they were designed with that class in mind :)
Plenty of ways. We have one in an upcoming campaign!
Inflict and other spells that deal negative energy damage should take care of utility healing, but not being able to use Lay on Hands as a quick action does make things harder for a dhampir. Still, great dramatic concept, and one hell of an undead killer. Anyone who channels positive energy in combat should have Selective Channelling at the very least, so that's one less worry for the dhampir.
If nothing this proves him to be a truly selfless paladin. He can still use positive energy, but only to help others. Heck you can throw in some swell role playing about his one blackened hand that burns with pain as he heals others.
What you end up with is a Paladin that can heal others, but never himself. I actually like that, it works well. His own taint prevents him from ever healing himself, only healing others. Sort of paying for the sins of his undead parent.
Exactly what makes the concept so great. :D
[...] his one blackened hand that burns with pain as he heals others.
Sounds awesome :o)
Hmm... Handicaps can occasionally prove fun for role-playing. I may try it. Thanks for the idea.
[...] but not being able to use Lay on Hands as a quick action does make things harder for a dhampir.
Could you clarify this, please? Do you mean he can't use Lay on Hands at all, or he can't use it as a "quick action"? Or do you mean he can only use the second option of Lay on Hands: harming undead?
Is it possible to use these abilities without actually hurting myself? Like, could I heal someone with my Lay on Hands without taking damage from it, as long as I don't intend on healing myself with it?
You can do anything you want as long as your DM is cool with it. Don't let the rules (or any rules nazis) dissuade you. Personally, I love the idea of a Dhampir Paladin.
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Could you clarify this, please? Do you mean he can't use Lay on Hands at all, or he can't use it as a "quick action"? Or do you mean he can only use the second option of Lay on Hands: harming undead?
They'd still be able to use it to heal others and hurt undead. They just can't use it to heal themselves, which other paladins could do as a quick action once per round. Sorry for the confusion.
Well, this has turned out to be an interesting thread. Thanks for the help everyone; looks like the problem was definitely there, but you guys turned it into a cool role-playing experience.
Cheers!
They'd still be able to use it to heal others and hurt undead. They just can't use it to heal themselves, which other paladins could do as a quick action once per round. Sorry for the confusion.
Ah, OK :o) Thank you!
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You might be best served by looking at a more appropriate class for a Dhampir, possibly a Cavalier - there's really no way a Dhampir is going to become a Paladin, and I don't think they were designed with that class in mind :)So you're saying Pathfinder doesn't support Vampire Hunter D characters?
Or Alucard.
And technically Blade.
And Bloodrayne.*
*Yes the games were trashy. But gloriously so.**
**Okay, the first one at least.***
***God, how did Uwe Boll screw up a concept as solid as "Vampires VS Nazis" anyway?****
****Oh, wait. It's Uwe Boll.
****Oh, wait. It's Uwe Boll.
Careful, he may call you out into an amateur boxing match to prove to you his films actually are good. <insert link to news article where this happened...>
if i remember he got beat up in it
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Well, this has turned out to be an interesting thread. Thanks for the help everyone; looks like the problem was definitely there, but you guys turned it into a cool role-playing experience.
Cheers!
As long as your party mates have your back with negative energy spells, or they chip in to get you an inflict wand or somesuch, you should be survivable. You'll just be a bit more fragile in battle. Except against many undead... ;)
Yeah ok maybe I just find it all a bit contrived... I don't see how Blade or Bloodrayne are Paladins though... Dont recall Blade calling out 'Sweet baby jeebus' before ganking any undead.
Anyhow, I take on board the whole 'healing others' bit as being kinda nifty, so maybe it DOES work, but there are some interesting twists..
And TOZ, maybe I just don't like Vamp Hunter D.
I dont like Mangaz in my RPGz! :)
if i remember he got beat up in it
looking it up he actually went 5-0 vs his critics, go germans
Careful, he may call you out into an amateur boxing match to prove to you his films actually are good. <insert link to news article where this happened...>
****Oh, wait. It's Uwe Boll.
hey that happened, and it was the coolest thing he ever did. He's actually quite ok at hitting things, too bad he KO's his movies though.
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Yeah ok maybe I just find it all a bit contrived... I don't see how Blade or Bloodrayne are Paladins though... Dont recall Blade calling out 'Sweet baby jeebus' before ganking any undead.
Anyhow, I take on board the whole 'healing others' bit as being kinda nifty, so maybe it DOES work, but there are some interesting twists..
And TOZ, maybe I just don't like Vamp Hunter D.
I dont like Mangaz in my RPGz! :)
Got hung up on the heroic dhampir bit more than the paladin one.
Anywho, it's only as contrived as you make it, just like any character concept. The dhampir in our party is one of a number of brothers in a heavily good-leaning vampire huntin' family. Said family had made a number of vampire enemies. Ergo...
Misplaced guilt and overcompensation can manifest itself in a number of ways. Some people make something amazing good out of it though, like paladinin'.
And TOZ, maybe I just don't like Vamp Hunter D.I dont like Mangaz in my RPGz! :)
Pfft, Vamp. H. D has to be one of the coolest characters ever; of course, I'm biased -- I used to watch the Scifi channel over my unawares father's shoulder during Saturday mornings and saw the 80s D a few times before being allowed to buy it on VHS... and here I am now, years and years later, and I'm still finding myself making rip-off versions of him in DnD games >_<
looking it up he actually went 5-0 vs his critics, go germans
And obviously proving his movies were amazing. Uwe Boll's Logic has to be one of the most solid foundations of human thought since the creation of the wheel.
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One last bit, while searching for negative-energy healing options we wondered about the vampiric touch spell. We came to the thoroughly scientific and metaphysically accurate* conclusion that it would work in reverse, healing the target and hurting the caster.
The dhampir paladin could in turn use Lay on Hands on the person that cast vampiric touch.
Kind of...yin-yang. -y.
*It works in videogames.
If nothing this proves him to be a truly selfless paladin. He can still use positive energy, but only to help others. Heck you can throw in some swell role playing about his one blackened hand that burns with pain as he heals others.
I like this one.
You might be best served by looking at a more appropriate class for a Dhampir, possibly a Cavalier - there's really no way a Dhampir is going to become a Paladin, and I don't think they were designed with that class in mind :)So you're saying Pathfinder doesn't support Vampire Hunter D characters?
Don't really think D could be classified as a Paladin. He's a mercenary after all.
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Don't really think D could be classified as a Paladin. He's a BAD ASS after all.You might be best served by looking at a more appropriate class for a Dhampir, possibly a Cavalier - there's really no way a Dhampir is going to become a Paladin, and I don't think they were designed with that class in mind :)So you're saying Pathfinder doesn't support Vampire Hunter D characters?
Fixed.
why dont you just become an anti-paladin
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Or, dare I say it, a Lawful Good.. Fighter!
o_O But where are me bells n' whistles?
Psssh - ah what the hey, tis all fun 'n games!
GO GO GO :)
Last time I checked, the wording of Lay on Hands will still function to heal the paladin, even if negative energy hurts him/her. Now, your GM may attempt to call shenanigans, but the fact is it works by the rules.
Lay On Hands (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. Each day she can use this ability a number of times equal to 1/2 her paladin level plus her Charisma modifier. With one use of this ability, a paladin can heal 1d6 hit points of damage for every two paladin levels she possesses. Using this ability is a standard action, unless the paladin targets herself, in which case it is a swift action. Despite the name of this ability, a paladin only needs one free hand to use this ability.
Alternatively, a paladin can use this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures, dealing 1d6 points of damage for every two levels the paladin possesses. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. Undead do not receive a saving throw against this damage.
Don't really think D could be classified as a Paladin. He's a mercenary after all.You might be best served by looking at a more appropriate class for a Dhampir, possibly a Cavalier - there's really no way a Dhampir is going to become a Paladin, and I don't think they were designed with that class in mind :)So you're saying Pathfinder doesn't support Vampire Hunter D characters?
A mercenary who hunts vampires because he thinks that's what's right. A mercenary who helped an orphaned farmer's daughter and her little brother for little gain. A vampire hunter that has attempted to redeem others, and follows a code of conduct befitting his beliefs.
Hmmm...sounds like a Paladin to me. :P
Due to Negative Energy Affinity, how does a Dhampir with Paladin levels actually work? Lay on Hands and Channel Positive Energy seem troublesome at best.
Dampir is not a vampire. THey have a vampire parent, but are not inheriently evil. They probably have a tendancy toward evil, but that arguement could be made for the entire human race. I digress.
Nothing prevents a Dampir from being a Pally, but you couldnt heal yourself with lay on hands since it's positive energy. You could hurt yourself with lay on hands if you wanted to. Perhaps he self flogs using lay on hands as a form of repentence. Could be intereting from a role play perspective.
If you want to be able to heal yourself be an evil cleric.
Yeah ok maybe I just find it all a bit contrived... I don't see how Blade or Bloodrayne are Paladins though... Dont recall Blade calling out 'Sweet baby jeebus' before ganking any undead.
Anyhow, I take on board the whole 'healing others' bit as being kinda nifty, so maybe it DOES work, but there are some interesting twists..
And TOZ, maybe I just don't like Vamp Hunter D.
I dont like Mangaz in my RPGz! :)
Blade and bloodrayne are monk/fighters. Think about it.
Blade and bloodrayne are monk/fighters. Think about it.Yeah ok maybe I just find it all a bit contrived... I don't see how Blade or Bloodrayne are Paladins though... Dont recall Blade calling out 'Sweet baby jeebus' before ganking any undead.
Anyhow, I take on board the whole 'healing others' bit as being kinda nifty, so maybe it DOES work, but there are some interesting twists..
And TOZ, maybe I just don't like Vamp Hunter D.
I dont like Mangaz in my RPGz! :)
Naw, they're just 3 levels higher than everyone the beat on!
Much like that Mr Boll chap.
Well, aside from me.
I'd take him anywhere, anytime - as long as we define anywhere to mean 'where he sleeps' and 'anytime' to mean 'while he is sleeping'!
:)
No wait, deadly serious emote..
-.o
Aaah there we go.
Dhampir Paladin? Go for it. The likes of D and Alucard* are Good dhampirs, even lawful in their own ways. It's not farfetched for them to take on that role, though I imagine it'd have to be very rare. Even so, awesome concept - I like the bit of fluff above about lay on hands only being meant to help others. Heck, perhaps through enough roleplay progress your god can gift you with the ability to benefit from positive energy as the living do.
*Crap, now I wanna run a Castlevania-themed megadungeon campaign. MEAT IN WALLS?!
The Vampire Hunter D was clearly a Neutral Good Ranger with favored enemy undead.
On topic, for the lay on hands RAW seems pretty nebulous on whether healing yourself is positive energy, though it is generally assumed to be it could just as easily be negative energy or untyped.
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Last time I checked, the wording of Lay on Hands will still function to heal the paladin, even if negative energy hurts him/her. Now, your GM may attempt to call shenanigans, but the fact is it works by the rules.
I turned off my computer last night before i actually read lay on hands, no where in its description does it even say it is positive energy. It can be used later to channel positive energy, it can heal you and others, and it can be used to harm undead. Nothing in its description absolutely states it cannot heal undead. or is even positive energy. While this might not be RAI, it appears to be RAW.
I turned off my computer last night before i actually read lay on hands, no where in its description does it even say it is positive energy. It can be used later to channel positive energy, it can heal you and others, and it can be used to harm undead. Nothing in its description absolutely states it cannot heal undead. or is even positive energy. While this might not be RAI, it appears to be RAW.Last time I checked, the wording of Lay on Hands will still function to heal the paladin, even if negative energy hurts him/her. Now, your GM may attempt to call shenanigans, but the fact is it works by the rules.
It works well for my to-be-lich paladin.
As the previous posters have said, Lay on Hands doesn't specify it is positive energy so should work on the dhampir pally.
And with the way Channel Energy (the cleric/paladin ability) works, the paladin doesn't have to worry about frying himself with positive energy when he Channels Positive Energy to heal his party because the same channel can't be used to both heal the party and harm undead. Of course he'll still want Selective Channel so he can miss himself when he uses it to harm undead. (Either that or he can fry himself when he channels against undead and be a true martyr. Would he get a Will save against himself?)
As the previous posters have said, Lay on Hands doesn't specify it is positive energy so should work on the dhampir pally.
And with the way Channel Energy (the cleric/paladin ability) works, the paladin doesn't have to worry about frying himself with positive energy when he Channels Positive Energy to heal his party because the same channel can't be used to both heal the party and harm undead. Of course he'll still want Selective Channel so he can miss himself when he uses it to harm undead. (Either that or he can fry himself when he channels against undead and be a true martyr. Would he get a Will save against himself?)
You can always choose to exclude yourself when you channel energy.
You can always choose to exclude yourself when you channel energy.As the previous posters have said, Lay on Hands doesn't specify it is positive energy so should work on the dhampir pally.
And with the way Channel Energy (the cleric/paladin ability) works, the paladin doesn't have to worry about frying himself with positive energy when he Channels Positive Energy to heal his party because the same channel can't be used to both heal the party and harm undead. Of course he'll still want Selective Channel so he can miss himself when he uses it to harm undead. (Either that or he can fry himself when he channels against undead and be a true martyr. Would he get a Will save against himself?)
Oh yeah. *wipes off some egg from his face*
As the previous posters have said, Lay on Hands doesn't specify it is positive energy so should work on the dhampir pally.
The more I think it over, the line "but react to positive and negative energy as if it were undead," despite saying "pos. and neg. energy," seems to overrule this. It's the spirit of the rule -- which I realize is a common argument no one wants to hear -- but if Dhampir are affected by energy types like undead, and Lay on Hands is an energy (whether it's pos or neg doesn't really matter here), and Lay on Hands also harms undead, it seems like Dhampir, as they act like undead, are inherently harmed by Lay on Hands as well.
If the book doesn't say Lay on Hands is positive, and Lay on Hands still harms undead, then it's just gonna harm undead. And if Dhampir are harmed like undead, then... well, you get the point.