I was wondering if we might see an offical pathfinder write up for Lizardfolk or Saurial PCs, preferably without a level adjustment? Granted I'm not sure if Saurials are copyrighted by WotC, though I'm sure a dinosaurfolk could be possible.
Pretty much the only thing I've ever really wanted in an RPG is the offering of reptilian PCs, that can fit in a setting easily.
The current Pathfinder adventures and setting seems to allow for the easy accomidation of lizardfolk. Just throwing it out there
I was wondering if we might see an offical pathfinder write up for Lizardfolk or Saurial PCs, preferably without a level adjustment? Granted I'm not sure if Saurials are copyrighted by WotC, though I'm sure a dinosaurfolk could be possible.
Pretty much the only thing I've ever really wanted in an RPG is the offering of reptilian PCs, that can fit in a setting easily.
The current Pathfinder adventures and setting seems to allow for the easy accomidation of lizardfolk. Just throwing it out there
I would second this addition.
One of my favorite characters was a lizardfolk back in the 3.5 days.
I have been peppering my campaign world with lizardfolk NPCs and even gods to make them seem like a true race and not just a monster.
Creative Director
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Saurials are indeed the intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast, so we won't be doing anything with them.
As for a zero HD reptilian humanoid... no plans to do one of those anytime soon either, but it's a relatively easy thing to just knock the HD off of a lizardfolk from the Bestiary. Their stat mods (+2 STR, +2 CON, –2 INT) already fall into line with other racial stat mods. The only part that really makes them overpowered as PCs would be their natural armor and their natural attacks... simply removing those results in:
+2 Str, +2 Con, –2 Int
Medium size
Speed: 30 ft., swim 15 ft.
Natural Armor: Lizardfolk have a base natural armor bonus of +2.
Agile: Lizardfolk gain a +4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks, and a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks.
Hold Breath: A lizardfolk can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 4 times its Constitution before it risks drowning.
Languages: Common, Draconic
NOTE: I added "Common" to their languages in order to make them work well as PCs; this has pretty much no effect on their balance, though. I also ended up giving them a +2 natural armor bonus, since without that, the removal of their attacks and natural armor and hit dice kinda made them TOO weak.
I read the title too fast, came looking for lizardfolk samurai.
Well not quite a Saurian, but Rite Publishing has just released In the Company of Kappa by Jonathan McAnulty.
Kappa are a kind of reptilian (turtle based) goblins from Japanese folklore designed for PC races in Pathfinder, especially for use in Kaidan: a Japanese Ghost Story setting. They are known for their love of wrestling and breaking bones. They love to play tricks on large races, especially humans. They have a love of water and can be found in rivers, lakes, ponds and marshes.
They have been known to drown swimmers and eat children, though just as many are tricksters and not so malicious.
In the Company of Kappa includes racial traits, alternate racial traits, 3 kappa archetypes, kappa weapons and a 1st - 20th level racial paragon class, as well as a writeup on their world and society through the eyes of a kappa, and an origin mythos. You can think of them as a diminuitive race skilled in physical combat.
GP
Saurials are indeed the intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast, so we won't be doing anything with them.
As for a zero HD reptilian humanoid... no plans to do one of those anytime soon either, but it's a relatively easy thing to just knock the HD off of a lizardfolk from the Bestiary. Their stat mods (+2 STR, +2 CON, –2 INT) already fall into line with other racial stat mods. The only part that really makes them overpowered as PCs would be their natural armor and their natural attacks... simply removing those results in:
+2 Str, +2 Con, –2 Int
Medium size
Speed: 30 ft., swim 15 ft.
Natural Armor: Lizardfolk have a base natural armor bonus of +2.
Agile: Lizardfolk gain a +4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks, and a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks.
Hold Breath: A lizardfolk can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 4 times its Constitution before it risks drowning.
Languages: Common, DraconicNOTE: I added "Common" to their languages in order to make them work well as PCs; this has pretty much no effect on their balance, though. I also ended up giving them a +2 natural armor bonus, since without that, the removal of their attacks and natural armor and hit dice kinda made them TOO weak.
I read the title too fast, came looking for lizardfolk samurai.
Yoinked for the "Earth, but mostly ancient Rome, in circa 100 AD with Pathfinder rules" setting I'm slowly brewing up at home. (I'm calling it Liches & Legionnaires; with Julius Caesar being of the first variety).
Yoinked for the "Earth, but mostly ancient Rome, in circa 100 AD with Pathfinder rules" setting I'm slowly brewing up at home. (I'm calling it Liches & Legionnaires; with Julius Caesar being of the first variety).
I thought about setting where Gaius survived with the help of magic, either Gaulish druidic, something completly exotic or aegyptian. Possibly as a sort of Mummy (think of Ravenloft Ancient Dead), but I didn't think about him becoming Lich...
I don't think this would balance. +2 melee, +2 melee, -2 non-melee would make this the obvious best choice for a melee character. It's clearly superior to dwarf or any of the varied nature +2s. It would make less sense to pick a different race for melee than it would be to pick a race other than elf for wizard.
I thought about setting where Gaius survived with the help of magic, either Gaulish druidic, something completly exotic or aegyptian. Possibly as a sort of Mummy (think of Ravenloft Ancient Dead), but I didn't think about him becoming Lich...
Imagine the look on the senators' faces when he got up and walked after all those stab-wounds had stopped bleeding.
Alas about the Saurials being copyrighted, but that still leaves the door open for Dinosaurfolk as long as they are done differently enough, which I don't think would be hard.
Still here's to hoping that they will hear the fans of the scalyfolk and give us a race or two.
Paizo seems to be interested in its fans and could slide it into another Advanced Players Guide or adventure path.
Honestly,
I'd love to see in one of the future bestiaries is dedicated sections to 'similar' species. Not sure how they'd do it though.
For example, for Lizardfolk, it's assumed they are aquatic (hold breath), basically swamp folks. I'd love to see a desert version of the lizard folk (perhaps with endurance as a racial feat and heat adaptation and something to help with sandstorms, nictating membrane on eyes). A forest version as well, with natural bonuses to hide in forest terrain (mottled scales), and a climb speed say.
Not that I want that for EVERY creature. I guess what I'm really wanting is a chapter on 'Adapting creatures for <environment>' and then using Lizardfolks as a good base line creature to adapt to each environment. Granted it would be more theory than hard-fast rules (although some small stat block adjusts for reasonable creatures would be nice).
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So you mean there are no lizardfolk samurai?
*sulking*
So you mean there are no lizardfolk samurai?
*sulking*
Well it looks like Paizo is working on a Samurai class/build. Maybe they will do Lizardfolk...release them in the same book and make the archtype picture a Lizardfolk Samurai. Which inturn would have Reaper Minis produce a pewter mini of a Lizardfolk Samurai.
MDT I love your suggestion mate. I'll be honest, I'd be a sucker, but I'd buy a book with that in it even if it was the only thing I wanted from that book.
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I'd buy a lizardfolk samurai mini.
Saurials are indeed the intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast, so we won't be doing anything with them.
As for a zero HD reptilian humanoid... no plans to do one of those anytime soon either, but it's a relatively easy thing to just knock the HD off of a lizardfolk from the Bestiary. Their stat mods (+2 STR, +2 CON, –2 INT) already fall into line with other racial stat mods. The only part that really makes them overpowered as PCs would be their natural armor and their natural attacks... simply removing those results in:
+2 Str, +2 Con, –2 Int
Medium size
Speed: 30 ft., swim 15 ft.
Natural Armor: Lizardfolk have a base natural armor bonus of +2.
Agile: Lizardfolk gain a +4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks, and a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks.
Hold Breath: A lizardfolk can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 4 times its Constitution before it risks drowning.
Languages: Common, DraconicNOTE: I added "Common" to their languages in order to make them work well as PCs; this has pretty much no effect on their balance, though. I also ended up giving them a +2 natural armor bonus, since without that, the removal of their attacks and natural armor and hit dice kinda made them TOO weak.
This assessment is largely in line with my experiences. I have a lizardfolk barbarian in my LoF campaign. He's using just natural attacks, and at 2nd level that makes him a better warrior than anyone else in the party, although I'd expect that to start tapering off around 6th level, and definitely fall behind by 11th. However, a lizardfolk who used weapon/claw/bite would probably be significantly better than a single-weapon warrior through his whole career. My main balance issue is the +6 natural armour, since he decided to also wear a chain shirt on top of it. Appropriate-CR monsters can basically never hit him.
So, in summary, I'd place an out-of-the-book lizardfolk (but with no racial HD) a little too far in the more powerful than core races bin. I'd allow it if I figured out a good way to balance such races, which is a topic I've been considering. Trying to make them totally in line with core races, I like JJ's suggestion. Also I trust him because he's a professional game designer.
Saurials are indeed the intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast, so we won't be doing anything with them.
As for a zero HD reptilian humanoid... no plans to do one of those anytime soon either, but it's a relatively easy thing to just knock the HD off of a lizardfolk from the Bestiary. Their stat mods (+2 STR, +2 CON, –2 INT) already fall into line with other racial stat mods. The only part that really makes them overpowered as PCs would be their natural armor and their natural attacks... simply removing those results in:
+2 Str, +2 Con, –2 Int
Medium size
Speed: 30 ft., swim 15 ft.
Natural Armor: Lizardfolk have a base natural armor bonus of +2.
Agile: Lizardfolk gain a +4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks, and a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks.
Hold Breath: A lizardfolk can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 4 times its Constitution before it risks drowning.
Languages: Common, DraconicNOTE: I added "Common" to their languages in order to make them work well as PCs; this has pretty much no effect on their balance, though. I also ended up giving them a +2 natural armor bonus, since without that, the removal of their attacks and natural armor and hit dice kinda made them TOO weak.
This assessment is largely in line with my experiences. I have a lizardfolk barbarian in my LoF campaign. He's using just natural attacks, and at 2nd level that makes him a better warrior than anyone else in the party, although I'd expect that to start tapering off around 6th level, and definitely fall behind by 11th. However, a lizardfolk who used weapon/claw/bite would probably be significantly better than a single-weapon warrior through his whole career. My main balance issue is the +6 natural armour, since he decided to also wear a chain shirt on top of it. Appropriate-CR monsters can basically never hit him.
So, in summary, I'd place an out-of-the-book lizardfolk (but with no racial HD) a little too far in the more...
well a barbarian is basically better than anyone in combat for the first few levels.
sounds like a cool character tho, the ac is a little stupid tho.and the APG has alot of cool options for a natural attack character to boot.
I don't think this would balance. +2 melee, +2 melee, -2 non-melee would make this the obvious best choice for a melee character. It's clearly superior to dwarf or any of the varied nature +2s. It would make less sense to pick a different race for melee than it would be to pick a race other than elf for wizard.
I agree, but if you keep 2 racial HD and treat him as starting at 2nd level there shouldnt be a problem.
Saurials are indeed the intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast, so we won't be doing anything with them.
As for a zero HD reptilian humanoid... no plans to do one of those anytime soon either, but it's a relatively easy thing to just knock the HD off of a lizardfolk from the Bestiary. Their stat mods (+2 STR, +2 CON, –2 INT) already fall into line with other racial stat mods. The only part that really makes them overpowered as PCs would be their natural armor and their natural attacks... simply removing those results in:
+2 Str, +2 Con, –2 Int
Medium size
Speed: 30 ft., swim 15 ft.
Natural Armor: Lizardfolk have a base natural armor bonus of +2.
Agile: Lizardfolk gain a +4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks, and a +8 racial bonus on Swim checks.
Hold Breath: A lizardfolk can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 4 times its Constitution before it risks drowning.
Languages: Common, DraconicNOTE: I added "Common" to their languages in order to make them work well as PCs; this has pretty much no effect on their balance, though. I also ended up giving them a +2 natural armor bonus, since without that, the removal of their attacks and natural armor and hit dice kinda made them TOO weak.
James thanks for this. Sorry, took a bit for me to see that you were one of the designers. See now just slide this in the next player's guide or adventure path with lizardfolk........ ;)
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For those wondering, I've been using the Lizardfolk Bestiary entry minus hit dice, natural armour, and natural attacks as a playable race in a store-run open campaign at my store for a while, and even without the generous +2 (not +6) natural armour that Mr. Jacobs included in his stats, it's a fine choice.
And for the gentleman who feared nobody would pick anything else for a melee race, have you looked at orcs PC stats, right out of the Bestiary? Or goblins? Or hobgoblins? This sort of concern always seems paranoid to me. I can assure you that we have many, many, many non-lizardfolk melee characters in our store campaign. Lizardfolk aren't even a top pick, mostly because people often don't want to deal with the roleplaying consequences of picking a more monstrous race.
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Thanks a lot for the writeup, James... I intend to use that! (It's a pretty good approximation of the Argonians from the Elder Scrolls series, which is the gold standard for my group apparently.) Wish it had made it into the Bestiary, and hope it ends up in a future product someday.... (Seriously, Lizardfolk of Golarion should follow the goblinoid races...)
For those who wanted a desert-dwelling playable lizardfolk, there's one in Adamant's Tome of Secrets that's pretty good.
TJB
Seeing as I'm making some still-existing human groups into non-humans, I'll probably never put it up. That'd just be an invitation to have abuse hurled at me from people who want to see racism in that kind of thing.
This assessment is largely in line with my experiences. I have a lizardfolk barbarian in my LoF campaign. He's using just natural attacks, and at 2nd level that makes him a better warrior than anyone else in the party, although I'd expect that to start tapering off around 6th level, and definitely fall behind by 11th. However, a lizardfolk who used weapon/claw/bite would probably be significantly better than a single-weapon warrior through his whole career. My main balance issue is the +6 natural armour, since he decided to also wear a chain shirt on top of it. Appropriate-CR monsters can basically never hit him.
That's easy to fix: Just say that Lizardfolk cannot wear standard armor due to their not quite humanoid bodies. I'm playing a Lizardfolk Natural Weapons Ranger (Guide/Skirmisher) in a PF Eberron game, and it works like a charm.
Has anyone checked out the Advanced Race Guide? It completely covers this in a balanced way. According to it's lizard folk example race they would have these traits:
Medium Humanioid (Reptile - Lizardfolk)(More like croc-people)
Base Speed: 30ft, Swim 15ft
Ability Modifiers: +2 Str, +2 Con
Languages: Draconic(or native tounge)
Racial traits: +1 Natural Armor
Bite attack (1d3)
Claw attack 2 (1d4)
Swim skill +8 (due to natural swim speed)
Hold Breath (4x con in rounds)
Now this only encompasses 8 of a possible 10 racial points that could be assigned to a playable race. Hypothetically you could add another one and increase the bite damage or a list of other appropriate small modifiers.
Thoughts on natural attacks: While the two claw attacks are nice the bite attack is a secondary attack and theirfore generates a -5 penalty without the multi-attack feat. This ability is good for the first few levels then you realise that a dagger does the same damage and has a better crit (plus you can throw em).
Using these you could make some different breeds of lizardfolk:
'Turtlefolk'(Roughly based upon snapping turtle/box turtle)
Reduce base speed to 20ft
Remove claw attack
Increase bite attack to 1d6 + 1 1/2 strength (counts as primary natural attack)
You could either then go with a con +2, wis +2, dex -2 or str +2, Con +2, dex -2.
Lastly you could either forgo the natural armor in favor of damage reduction 5/magic or have a +4 natural armor (can't have both).
This includes keeping the swim ability and hold breath
And yes I realise the dream of making a ninja turtle.
'Snakefolk'
Medium Humaniod (Reptile)(Based upon viper, adder ect.)
Base speed 30ft
Remove swim speed
Remove Claw attack
Increase bite attack to 1d4 + str
Gain Toxic: Saliva can do either 1 con, 1d2 str or 1d2 Dex damage. Fort save negates Cure 1 save. DC 10+1/2 HD + Con mod. Frequency 1/round for 6 rounds. Can be used per day equal to con mod (min 1). Can be applied to weapons with no risk of poisoning self.
Natural armor +1
Dex +2, Con +2
Silent Hunter: Reduce penalty for moving while sneaking by 5, can make sneak attempt while running at -20 (already includes reduction).
Stalker: Preception and Stealth are always class skills
Low light vision
And lastly the Skinkfolk
'Skink-folk'
Medium Humanoid(Reptile)
Speed 40ft, Climb 20ft
Bite attack 1d3 +str
Natural Armor +1
Sprinter: +10 to run, charge, or withdraw speed
Desert Runner: Members of this race receive a +4 racial bonus on Constitution checks and Fortitude saves to avoid fatigue and exhaustion, as well as any other ill effects from running, forced marches, starvation, thirst, and hot or cold environments.
+4 Dex, -2 Str, -2 Int
Or feel free to make your own! Link below:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedRaceGuide/raceBuilder.html
I would like to see a small dinosaur folk modeled after Microraptor or similar dinosaurs, complete with feathers.
I would expect some sort of playable PC reptilian race about the time Droon gets a write up.
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Has anyone checked out the Advanced Race Guide? It completely covers this in a balanced way.
The ARG wasn't released when this thread was last active.
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Hey, thread necromancy that actually advances the cause! Who'd have thought!
Anyone missing Saurials might be heavily interested in checking out Little Red Goblin Games PDF, A Land Out of Time. Assorted dinosaurfolk, lizardfolk, and even smilodonfolk. Much fun to be had.
I would like to see a small dinosaur folk modeled after Microraptor or similar dinosaurs, complete with feathers.
I'd like to see a full set of dinosaur themed races. Ceratopsian Folk, Large-Theropod folk, Raptorfolk, Sauropodfolk etc. Put them in a book together with dino-related and prehistoric archetypes and call it Advanced Dinosaur Guide
(also put a mini-bestiary in the end full of dinosaurs, megafauna and prehistoric themed monsters)