I was just wondering if anyone had any stories about suboptimal characters and (GASP!) had FUN playing them? Maybe your feat selection wasn't best, or your attributes were rolled just once on the first try, etc.
I was just wondering if anyone had any stories about suboptimal characters and (GASP!) had FUN playing them? Maybe your feat selection wasn't best, or your attributes were rolled just once on the first try, etc.
My first D&D 3.0 PC was an Expert. He was striving to one day learn the lost arts of Magic (all magic based classes were banned or severely modified). He led a rag-tag team of misfits on a quest to stop a mysterious group of outsiders from opening a gate for "demons" to enter the world. His team included a mute boxer (male fighter), a delinquent youth (female rogue pretending to be male), a knight (female paladin), a noble savage warrior (male barbarian), and a ranger.
He was desperately suboptimal and didn't take a level of fighter till level 3. He rarely made a difference in combat and when he did it was a spectacle of futility. He was the "face" of the group, doing most of the negotiating and keeping the unruly group in as good as order as possible. His life ended halfway though the campaign when trying to negotiate with the Ent-like Tree People of the Haunted Forest. Trees evidently were not skilled conversationalists and had a quick temper. This resulted in a near TPK.
RIP, Draemos, King's Scribe and Reluctant Adventurer.
Played an obese gnome with a love for alliteration, tech, turnips and flatulence. Died at lv7. Had fun with him.
An elven monk wielding a staff (doesn't get much more suboptimal than that, I guess). Made at lv12, died at lv12.
A half-elf bard in 2e. Was ineffective as they come, but managed to luck out a lot. Died at lv6 or so.
See a pattern here?
This is why I optimize. I put a LOT of effort into my characters, and I don't want them to DIE. If you suck, you die. Isn't that right, Ewan?
(Ewan is the Con8 cleric in our current party. He has died 3 times already, and now the player finally had enough, so when he dies next, he is gonna roll a new character)
Well, I wasn't suggesting characters that deliberately shoot themselves in the foot, just sub-optimized. A halfling fighter, half-orc wizard (at least in old 3.5), that sorta thing.
All the time, generally if i don't know a system then i will make them sub-optimal or non-combative. Because of course combat is generally the best place to optimise.
I find that providing you have a sense of self-preservation (gasp!) your PC should not die. You have to make sure that you don't put them into stupid positions, & since =CR encounters are not supposed to kill you, you just have to know your limits and make up for shortcomings with teamwork.
Of course my favourite story is my 2ed bard, the party walk down a dark arched hall into a bedchamber. The scout fails his save stops, the paladin pushes past him also fails and turns to stone too. The fighter draws his weapons closes his eyes and charges, i tie a scarf around my eyes. A couple of rounds later the fighter is a statue too, so the dwarf cleric & i enter. The Cleric instantly turns to stone, so i sit on the bed & try to seduce the medusa for info....
A couple of minutes later, she wants us to eat the paladins arm (i have cut off the arm of a different PC of that player, so he was sweating). A blind the medusa, 'item' the scout and run. We unparalyse him, get another antidote, return and destroy the medusa.
If by suboptimal you mean any melee that is not a Greatsword/Falchion/ECB wielder, than well all of them...
Gwaenlyn: Fighter/Barb hybrid dual wielder. Not only a Dual Wielder, but a DEX/High, Long Sword (not Scimis, or Kukris...) dual wielder. The game ended due to scheduling conflicts, she was level 9, 107hp w/CON14 (hot HP dice!)
Iryna: Heal-Bot/Caster Cleric (probably the most optimised of this list!) with things like Selective Channeling and Dodge as feats. We only got to lvl4 Before my Uncle sent me to Durkadurkastan :(
Ryliah: Fight/Wiz(trans)/EK. Not the best fighter, not the best wizard, but very fun, regardless. Started at 6th, is now 10th and I am very happy with her performance :)
Eliza: Bard. What can I say, she's a piss-poor excuse for a caster, a half assed medic, a non-existant melee participant and has feats like "Magical Aptitude," "Skill Focus-Use Magic Device," it's nice, useless (so, not nice, really) having a UMD of +15 at third level...)
However, in all cases Style Trumps Power. Anyone can do math and honestly, once you 'perfect' the math, there is only one choice for build in each category (DPR/Caster/etc...) How lock step in the "Bob-Clone-Bob" School PC Generation do I want to get? Not very.
And that brings up the point that what is 'suboptimal' to you is 'fully functional' to me. It all depends on your individual game :) I will not gimp a PC (not intentionally) but neither will I 'over-optimize' a PC. Play well, but don't stop playing :D I had a conversation with one of the lads at the FLGS and he firmly beleived that any 'good build' was inherently opposed to RP. My reply was, "So, Conan, the ultimate 'fighter' was a bad character because he was good at what he did?"
GNOME
I was just wondering if anyone had any stories about suboptimal characters and (GASP!) had FUN playing them? Maybe your feat selection wasn't best, or your attributes were rolled just once on the first try, etc.
Yes. My eponymous dumb paladin, my current 3.5 character, started out very suboptimal. I started picking feats and prestige classes to make him significantly more impressive as time went on, but he's really only gotten impressive 2 levels ago, at CL 12.
Out of the entire party, he has the lowest base starting stats: 16, 14, 14, 12, 10, 8. The 8 was in Intelligence, so he doesn't have many skills to speak of. I chose no specific feat trees, and some of my feats were chosen to help the party out rather than maximize my paladin's potential (Healing Devotion, Protection Devotion), because that's the kind of guy he is.
I've had a really enjoyable and rich roleplaying experience playing someone who is good to the core, kind to everyone, struggles with moral quandaries, wisely prevents other, more rash party members from getting into major trouble, almost never moralizes, and can be taught many things by the other party members, including how to be a better paladin.
My DM has been very kind in rewarding me with NPC reactions towards my paladin: if people know him or have heard of him or observed his behavior, it seems as if they've started one step higher on the Diplomacy scale towards me than some other party members, and I've been told I've gotten circumstance bonuses on my Diplomacy checks at times. Things like that will always make roleplay more enjoyable than roll-play.
None of this suggests my character is ineffectual in any way; he never was. But he isn't the party's primary damage dealer via physical damage or spell damage and isn't the party's primary healer or skills expert, either. And yet, he's been chosen as group leader twice now. And I am finding it fun to frustrate the DM with my insane save bonuses and armor class (currently I can get to 50 AC in 3 rounds).
An evil paladin I ran in a good friend's game was seriously sub-optimal due to poor rolls. I decided to make him a 14 year old kid, learning the ropes of his profession. Died in a near TPK(once again, only the bard survived) trying to avenge his best friend and bodyguard. It was an all-evil game, and it taught me a lot as a player about cameraderie and friendship- I am currently running a mostly evil game, and it's interesting how evil people give each other crap ALL THE TIME- but quickly take each other's back when faced with the "prejudice" of good NPCs.
However, in all cases Style Trumps Power. Anyone can do math and honestly, once you 'perfect' the math, there is only one choice for build in each category (DPR/Caster/etc...) How lock step in the "Bob-Clone-Bob" School PC Generation do I want to get? Not very.
And that brings up the point that what is 'suboptimal' to you is 'fully functional' to me. It all depends on your individual game :) I will not gimp a PC (not intentionally) but neither will I 'over-optimize' a PC. Play well, but don't stop playing :D I had a conversation with one of the lads at the FLGS and he firmly beleived that any 'good build' was inherently opposed to RP. My reply was, "So, Conan, the ultimate 'fighter' was a bad character because he was good at what he did?"
GNOME
+1
Also most 'optimal' characters just end up being one trick ponies...which are really just boring to play...and usualy easily beaten by simple tactics. Also most of the optimal build I see are really cool against a empty field...but tend to breakdowen in actual play.
in my satuday group, my creepy barely legally aged female tian inquisitor is one of the 3 most powerful members of the party. the other 2 are the venerable male vudrani psionicist and the young adult female illumain binder/focused transmuter/anima mage.
i consider "Neko-Chan" to be not as optimized as she could have been. first of all, she is not a dedicated archer with a composite longbow. and second, she doesn't wield a falchion, curveblade or greatsword. she does have a 3.5 spiked chain. she is also both chronologically and cosmetically the youngest character in the entire party of 8. looking younger than her age. and no, "Neko-Chan" is not a one trick pony. she is pretty specialized in a lot of things and has intially had a delayed progression.
normally, she wouldn't be considered optimal, but she may as well be functioning rather well with weekly william. because as a player, i studied his campaign and waited for the closest moment to a rebuild possible. turns out, he was the one that wanted it. he didn't like the little girl as a swordsage kicking down 10 foot thick magically reinforced adamantine walls into powder as if they were nothing more than rice paper.
and it was either propose an alternative or have her remade as a chaotic evil cleric of lamashtu. took me 3 hours of debate to find an alternative.
back as a swordsage, she was one of the less powerful pcs.
her main specialties as an inquisitor
interrogation, through torture and intimidation
finding stuff, whether person, object, or clue, usually by accident
dealing lots of damage in melee combat, after buffing herself
secondary face, even with a dumped charisma
she isn't the most optimal, but she occasionally wrecks weekly william's combat encounters due to the sheer amount of melee damage she deals, assuming the anima mage hasn't gotten to them first and dropped mass save or sucks.
if only there were a spell to strip a massive amount of creatures of thier damage reduction.