Disclaimer: I've really only played Pathfinder for a couple weeks now.
Anyway, my DM has told me that in order to get any type of enchant on a weapon, it must first be enchanted with a +1 (attack/dmg) enhancement enchant. Then I could get another enchant on it that counts as a +1 (Flaming, for example), raising the effective bonus of the weapon to +2 (for cost and magic allocation purposes).
Anyway, the only problem I have with this is the wording of the rules on the d20pfsrd website.
A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls. Source
And...
A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once. Source
So can someone explain to me how a Masterwork +1 Enhancement bonus doesn't count as the required +1 Enhancement bonus prerequisite on a magic item? Is it a difference of "+1 Enhancement bonus on attack" vs "+1 Enhancement bonus"?
Disclaimer: I've really only played Pathfinder for a couple weeks now.
Anyway, my DM has told me that in order to get any type of enchant on a weapon, it must first be enchanted with a +1 (attack/dmg) enhancement enchant. Then I could get another enchant on it that counts as a +1 (Flaming, for example), raising the effective bonus of the weapon to +2 (for cost and magic allocation purposes).
Anyway, the only problem I have with this is the wording of the rules on the d20pfsrd website.
A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls. SourceAnd...
A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once. SourceSo can someone explain to me how a Masterwork +1 Enhancement bonus doesn't count as the required +1 Enhancement bonus prerequisite on a magic item? Is it a difference of "+1 Enhancement bonus on attack" vs "+1 Enhancement bonus" difference?
There is a difference and your game master is correct. A masterwork weapon provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attacks only. This is done because of the great quality of the weapon. Magical weapons with a +1 enhancement bonus apply to both attack and damage. I have always viewed these weapons as magically lighter and sharper than even the most experienced weapon smith can make as it builds on top of their perfection.
There is a difference and your game master is correct. A masterwork weapon provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attacks only. This is done because of the great quality of the weapon. Magical weapons with a +1 enhancement bonus apply to both attack and damage. I have always viewed these weapons as magically lighter and sharper than even the most experienced weapon smith can make as it builds on top of their perfection.
I wasn't really challenging what my DM was saying, I was just trying to understand the actual difference and why it was worded that way.
Saying "this needs an Enhancement bonus" and then saying "the Enhancement bonus from Masterwork doesn't count as an Enhancement bonus" is more than a little confusing. If it was clarified as "to enchant a magic item with an ability, it first needs a magical +1 enhancement bonus" that would solve the problem.
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Welcome to playing Pathfinder and Paper RPGs in general.
So can someone explain to me how a Masterwork +1 Enhancement bonus doesn't count as the required +1 Enhancement bonus prerequisite on a magic item? Is it a difference of "+1 Enhancement bonus on attack" vs "+1 Enhancement bonus"?
As you've noted, masterwork items have an enhancement bonus, and all magic weapons must have an enhancement bonus before being upgraded further. So, your question is reasonable. Let's look at the full passage on magic weapons:
Weapons come in two basic categories: melee and ranged. Some of the weapons listed as melee weapons can also be used as ranged weapons. In this case, their enhancement bonuses apply to both melee and ranged attacks.
Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.
The second bolded passage is what you have referred to. What is causing confusion for you is that you are taking it out of context and looking at it in isolation. The first bolded passage is also important in understanding what is meant by the requirement of an enhancement bonus. Could it be clearer? Yes. Your question is reasonable.
Your GM is correct. A masterwork weapon can be made into a +1 weapon. A +1 weapon can have additional magic added (+2, flaming, etc.)
Hope that helps, and again, welcome.
The second bolded passage is what you have referred to. What is causing confusion for you is that you are taking it out of context and looking at it in isolation. The first bolded passage is also important in understanding what is meant by the requirement of an enhancement bonus. Could it be clearer? Yes. Your question is reasonable.
Your GM is correct. A masterwork weapon can be made into a +1 weapon. A +1 weapon can have additional magic added (+2, flaming, etc.)
Hope that helps, and again, welcome.
Ahh...that makes a little more sense. I still feel that there should be a terminology difference between the two so that people like me don't look at it and say "an enhancement bonus is an enhancement bonus".
Thanks for your patience!
I think the "masterwork" bonus is called an enhancement bonus for stacking reasons. If they called it some other type of bonus, it would be less clear that it doesn't stack with the "magic" enhancement bonus (to hit). Unfortunately, that makes it less clear that you need the "magic" enhancement bonus and not the "masterwork" enhancement bonuse before you can further enchant the weapon with special abilities.
Ahh...that makes a little more sense. I still feel that there should be a terminology difference between the two so that people like me don't look at it and say "an enhancement bonus is an enhancement bonus".
There's about 4,096,022 different issues that have arisen because they choose one term to describe a dozen different things. This isn't the first, and you're not the only one to have that problem.
I see this a little differently.
Masterwork is a mundane (non-magical) effect.
+1 Magical enhancement is well, magical.
Say you have a +1 Longsword and you get caught in an anti-magic field. The +1 Magical enhancement would be suppressed while you were in the field but the masterwork (non-magical) +1 enhancement would continue working.
But outside of the field the magical bonus applies while the non-magical bonus is suppressed.
Hows that sound?
That's exactly how it works.