RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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How do you do this?
Situation:
You're standing in front of a bottomless crevasse that is 20' in width. On the other side of it you have a cliff face that rises 20' above your height. You can make a running start.
What is the Acrobatics DC for jumping across the 20' crevasse, but also clearing that 20' of height?
It would be great if the game had a parabolic arc DC chart.
DC 80 = height in feet multiplied by 4, the DC 20 to make the 20 distance is paltry in comparison.
EDIT: Almost missed the 20ft above your height part. So the answer would be (20ft + your height in ft.) * 4 ft = DC
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There are a few ways it could make sense to run it:
*Two Acrobatics checks, one for length one for height.
*One Acrobatics check, since the check for height could, theoretically, include the one for distance.
*One check for a 30' high jump (30' being the rounded hypotenuse of a triangle with two 20' sides).
*One Acrobatics check for a 80' long jump (using the old standby, which I'm pretty sure did not get included in Pathfinder because the intent was to make two Acrobatics checks, which says that the height reached during a long jump is equal to one-quarter the distance covered).
*Add the two DCs together
How do you do this?
Situation:
You're standing in front of a bottomless crevasse that is 20' in width. On the other side of it you have a cliff face that rises 20' above your height. You can make a running start.
What is the Acrobatics DC for jumping across the 20' crevasse, but also clearing that 20' of height?
It would be great if the game had a parabolic arc DC chart.
No kidding! I've wished for that too.
Finally, you can use the Acrobatics skill to make jumps or to soften a fall. The base DC to make a jump is equal to the distance to be crossed (if horizontal) or four times the height to be reached (if vertical). These DCs double if you do not have at least 10 feet of space to get a running start. The only Acrobatics modifiers that apply are those concerning the surface you are jumping from. If you fail this check by 4 or less, you can attempt a DC 20 Reflex save to grab hold of the other side after having missed the jump. If you fail by 5 or more, you fail to make the jump and fall (or land prone, in the case of a vertical jump). Creatures with a base land speed above 30 feet receive a +4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump for every 10 feet of their speed above 30 feet. Creatures with a base land speed below 30 feet receive a –4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump for every 10 feet of their speed below 30 feet. No jump can allow you to exceed your maximum movement for the round.
Running Jump: For a running jump, the result of your Acrobatics check indicates the distance traveled in the jump (and if the check fails, the distance at which you actually land and fall prone). Halve this result for a standing long jump to determine where you land.
By RAW you are making two separate acrobatics checks. One for the distance at a, as mentioned by others, DC 20. Then, though you are making another Acrobatics check for the height. If the cliff on the other side is 20ft above your head, that actual height of the jump is considered 25 ft. (average humanoid is 6ft, rounded down) which means the DC to make the height is 100! Yikes! You'd better be one acrobatic son of a gun, to make that jump. If you think about it realistically though, that would be a very hard jump to make. (Yes I know we're not supposed to put realism into Pathfinder.)
Since most PCs are not going to be able to make the DC 80 jump for the 20' in height if the wall on the other side is climbable have them do a DC 20 jump to cross the ravine then a Climb check to grab the wall and begin to climb.
There are a few ways it could make sense to run it:
*Two Acrobatics checks, one for length one for height.
*One Acrobatics check, since the check for height could, theoretically, include the one for distance.
*One check for a 30' high jump (30' being the rounded hypotenuse of a triangle with two 20' sides).
*One Acrobatics check for a 80' long jump (using the old standby, which I'm pretty sure did not get included in Pathfinder because the intent was to make two Acrobatics checks, which says that the height reached during a long jump is equal to one-quarter the distance covered).
*Add the two DCs together
Thanks for all the suggestions!
Also, I did make the example more complicated, I meant 20' above the surface your standing on to try and make it as simple as possible.
So in terms of what Tom suggested:
* DC 20 long jump and DC 80 high jump
* DC 120 high jump check based off of hypotenuse
* DC 80 long jump
* DC 100 acrobatics check with the two DCs combined.So we're talking somewhere between DC 80 to 120...
Now, what happens if you have a 10' pole to help you vault?
Man, that's a great question, I'd have to do some digging, but I'm pretty sure there aren't any specific rules for pole vaulting. I have seen in other forums the suggestion that someone vaulting with a 10 foot pole reduces the DC of a high jump by two per foot. So a 20 foot high jump using a pole to vault would only be 40, if you buy that mechanic.
I have also seen mechanics that say pole vaulting adds a +10 to your roll for making the jump. I guess you're going to end up house ruling it either way so take those suggestions and modify as you see fit.
The real world pole vault record is just under 20ft 2 inches. TY internets.
It seems likely that mended walls suggestion of -2 DC per ft of assitance pole would be a good option.
One of the rules for Jump which were included in 3.5 but are not mentioned in Pathfinder is the 'vertical reach' for creatures.
3.5 SRD -> Jump Skill:
"High Jump: A high jump is a vertical leap made to reach a ledge high above or to grasp something overhead. The DC is equal to 4 times the distance to be cleared.
If you jumped up to grab something, a successful check indicates that you reached the desired height. If you wish to pull yourself up, you can do so with a move action and a DC 15 Climb check. If you fail the Jump check, you do not reach the height, and you land on your feet in the same spot from which you jumped. As with a long jump, the DC is doubled if you do not get a running start of at least 20 feet.
High Jump Distance(1)____Jump DC(2)
1 foot______________________4
2 feet______________________8
3 feet_____________________12
4 feet_____________________16
5 feet_____________________20
6 feet_____________________24
7 feet_____________________28
8 feet_____________________32
1 Not including vertical reach; see below.
2 Requires a 20-foot running start. Without a running start, double the DC.
Obviously, the difficulty of reaching a given height varies according to the size of the character or creature. The maximum vertical reach (height the creature can reach without jumping) for an average creature of a given size is shown on the table below. (As a Medium creature, a typical human can reach 8 feet without jumping.)
Quadrupedal creatures don’t have the same vertical reach as a bipedal creature; treat them as being one size category smaller.
Creature Size____Vertical Reach
Colossal____________128 ft.
Gargantuan___________64 ft.
Huge_________________32 ft.
Large________________16 ft.
Medium________________8 ft.
Small_________________4 ft.
Tiny__________________2 ft.
Diminutive____________1 ft.
Fine________________1/2 ft.
While it is not mentioned in the Acrobatics rules for jumping in Pathfinder, I don't find particularily unbalanced to apply the 'vertical reach' for creatures while making a high jump, in order to allow them to 'grab' with their appendages the object they are trying to reach (in this case, the ground level above their head) and then climb themselves up to it.
After all, in order to jump over a wall, people don't need necessarily to completely step over it, they can simply reach it with their hands and then climb up ;).
As a simple rule, I usually allow any creature to use their natural reach as a means to 'close the gap' while jumping (which is, in order to reach the summit of a 10ft. wall, a Medium size humanoid has to jump only 5 ft. - thanks to their 5 ft. natural reach, their hands can grab the upper limit of the wall and then they have only to climb.
Just my 2c.
Reading the addition of vertical reach, I was wondering what if the creature had the Lunge feat.
Gives you 5 more feet of reach, so would a medium creature be able to reach 13' instead of 8'?
Reading the addition of vertical reach, I was wondering what if the creature had the Lunge feat.
Gives you 5 more feet of reach, so would a medium creature be able to reach 13' instead of 8'?
lunge gives you reach in a combat sense it isn't connected to reach in a physical grasping things sense. otherwise a 6 man with this feat could grab a ledge 14 feet high without jumping or moving.
to the op I think the dc is 80 . when you can make a dc 80 jump check 20 foot distance is irrelevant I believe.
I think you would need to be about a lvl 15 monk.
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Vertical reach is an important point. With the average 8ft vertical reach that DC 80 vertical jump becomes a DC 48 vertical jump - the difference being, of course, that the guy who cleared the DC 80 leapt 20ft up and landed on top of the wall on his feet (cue Six Million Dollar Man jumping sound effects...), whilst the guy who only made the DC 48 just managed to grab hold of the top of the wall. Vertical reach is also important to remember when using a whip to blat enemies above you (they're 20ft up? No problem - I've 3ft spare to play with!).
Using a pole to cover extra distance (across or up) is generally going to net you, at most, extra distance equal to the length of the pole... essentially the end of the pole becomes your new 'take off' point. The issue is then what's the maximum length pole your character could reasonably use, and is there any added difficulty to your roll to do so (which, to some extent, will mitigate the pole-use anyway)?
On a vaguely related note: athletics jumping records tend to be for events which require a single-footed take-off. When not restricted in that way people who know what they're doing can usually jump further. Not sure if it's relevant, but it just popped into my head... ;)
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The real world pole vault record is just under 20ft 2 inches. TY internets.
And pole vaulting requires a good stop for the pole -- i.e. something to "plant" the pole into so it doesn't just slide along the ground in front of you.
I think a tanglefoot bag with a rope tied to it might be just as good (throw the bag at the wall, then hand-over-hand the rope to the other side).
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Wouldn't the use of a pole vault be kind of bad given that he also needs to clear the 20 ft. wide ravine? Pole vaults seem to only be good for clearing height, given that you are planting the vault immediately before the barrier and landing right on the other side. In this situation, it seems like trying that would just land the guy in the ravine. It seems like one's natural Acrobatics skill would be better in this situation.
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... Pole vaults seem to only be good for clearing height, given that you are planting the vault immediately before the barrier and landing right on the other side...
Juts 'cos there's no sporting contest to cover pole-vaulting across lengthwise distances doesn't make it an invalid option - if you keep hold of the end of the pole past the apex position, and release / push-off some time as you're coming down, then it's perfectly viable to use a pole to vault over, say, a river or ravine... if (of course) you have some skill at what you're doing (but then again, why would you attempt this if you have no ranks in Acrobatics?).
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Actually you wouldn't need to figure out two DC's, merely a single long jump DC. In 3.5 on long jumps you achieved a height of 1/4 the DC rolled. So if you made a DC 20 long jump you get 5 feet high at the mid point of the jump.
So you need to get 20 feet high at the mid point of your long jump to also cover the paltry 20 foot chasm (in this case at least). Thus it's just DC 80.
Easier to buy a potion of fly IMO...
--Vrocketeer
What Vrock and Tom Baumbach said: Height achieved is 1/4 the check, whether vertical or horizontal. As long as the height needed is more than 1/4 of the distance, just use the height DC. If the distance is more than 4x the height, use the distance DC.
What Vrock and Tom Baumbach said: Height achieved is 1/4 the check, whether vertical or horizontal. As long as the height needed is more than 1/4 of the distance, just use the height DC. If the distance is more than 4x the height, use the distance DC.
But guys as a poster noted earlier in this thread that section is not in the PF rules there is, as written, no link between the two.
which means let the Lu Kang 30 ft bicycle kick down a corridor commence?
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The DC 80 check works for Pathfinder as well. It's a DC 80 to clear 20 feet of height, DC 20 to clear 20 feet of distance. Use the higher of the two. Done. :)
Not to mention that if you can make the DC 80 check, your minimum result is going to clear the DC 20 (if you insist on two separate rolls, that is).
The DC 80 check works for Pathfinder as well. It's a DC 80 to clear 20 feet of height, DC 20 to clear 20 feet of distance. Use the higher of the two. Done. :)
Not to mention that if you can make the DC 80 check, your minimum result is going to clear the DC 20 (if you insist on two separate rolls, that is).
I don't think anyone is saying you couldn't make it two checks if you wanted or that the long jump would not be the easy component. However the automatic parabolic arc for long jumps is no longer listed as how jumps work.
Also because i didn't think that this is how it was in 3.5 you may not travel more distance jumping than your move speed in a round.
it's perfectly viable to use a pole to vault over, say, a river or ravine...
Or an area of desert infested with graboids!
I like 2 checks, but on condition they couldn't take 10. Two chances to botch simulates the combined difficulty, but more importantly you can know exatly where they are in the air if they miss (make the high jump but miss the distance, they're in the air like the cyote in a road runner cartoon. vice versa, they hit the wall and slide down... like the cyote in a road runner cartoon)
it's perfectly viable to use a pole to vault over, say, a river or ravine...Or an area of desert infested with graboids!
A big ole' giant +1 for that one Kelvin!
it's perfectly viable to use a pole to vault over, say, a river or ravine...Or an area of desert infested with graboids!
Props man, props.
Now to actually contribute, I'm going to have to do some math if you want the most realistic answer.
I agree with those that say you just use the higher of the two DCs.
