I was wondering, a player wants to do the four winds plus the sacred mountain as a dwarven monk. I don't think I'll let him, but I wanted to ask you folks as neither one interferes with the other. I'd say "yes" to one or the other, but not both--unless I read some convincing arguments as to why this should be allowed.
Just asking.
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I was wondering, a player wants to do the four winds plus the sacred mountain as a dwarven monk. I don't think I'll let him, but I wanted to ask you folks as neither one interferes with the other. I'd say "yes" to one or the other, but not both--unless I read some convincing arguments as to why this should be allowed.
Just asking.
The basic rules for archetypes allow you to combine them if they do not replace any of the same features. None of the features replaced by the monk of the four winds is also replaced by the monk of the sacred mountain, so by the Rules As Written, such a combination is entirely legal.
As for why it should be allowed... honestly, that's up to you. I really see no reason to deny it, I'm not spotting any broken possibilities out of the two (and in fact, the sacred mountain's tendency toward immobility will greatly weaken some of the four winds' abilities), but perhaps there is some setting reason that makes you hesitate?
First of all... epicly, awesomely bad thread title. Any monk with two packages belongs in a XXX sideshow.
On a more serious note, I think the basic rule is that if any of the features from the two alternate class "packages" (as you call them) replace the same original class feature, they dont work in tandem.
In this case (unless I'm missing something), these two "packages" are kosher to have together on one character.
First of all... epicly, awesomely bad thread title. Any monk with two packages belongs in a XXX sideshow.
I was wondering, a player wants to do the four winds plus the sacred mountain as a dwarven monk. I don't think I'll let him, but I wanted to ask you folks as neither one interferes with the other. I'd say "yes" to one or the other, but not both--unless I read some convincing arguments as to why this should be allowed.
Just asking.
The basic rules for archetypes allow you to combine them if they do not replace any of the same features. None of the features replaced by the monk of the four winds is also replaced by the monk of the sacred mountain, so by the Rules As Written, such a combination is entirely legal.
As for why it should be allowed... honestly, that's up to you. I really see no reason to deny it, I'm not spotting any broken possibilities out of the two (and in fact, the sacred mountain's tendency toward immobility will greatly weaken some of the four winds' abilities), but perhaps there is some setting reason that makes you hesitate?
Precisely why I want to deny this is because the four winds is neutered by the sacred mountain abilities. I could see other things, other abilities--but this is asking for having a real cool character and then watching him be...not as cool.
$.02
That was a fairly important bit to know at the start of your query. The Paizo boards are for the most part firmly in the camps of "don't hold back player creativity" and "if its cool, go with it".
Your origional question was close to sounding like a "player wants something cool, must not allow, please tell me I'm right" sort of thing that many of the locals here don't respond well to.
However, upon closer reading, and your secondary comment, that is not the case. In fact, it is the opposite, as you appear to be attempting to protect your player against shooting himself in the foot down the line. Thats just fine, in my book.
I'd say, explain to him the mechanical concerns you see with the conflicting abilities and how they may create genuine playability hardships for his character. If he declares that he doesn't care and wants to take them anyway, then tell him okay, but if he regrets the decision later he can't change it easily, and would either need to go on a "retraining" quest to some remote monastary, or simply retire the character for a new one.
Lay it out plain and simple, but let it still be his choice unless you want to invoke final DM power of "Changing the Rules". Not saying you couldn't do that first, it just wouldn't be my first choice.
And since Feat Retraining is one of the few class features Fighters have,
Fighter players may get jealous if you are handing out complete Class Ability Retraining...
On the other hand... My Hungry Ghost of the Sacred Mountain Monk doesn't lose out on anything, and has DR and Temporary Hit Points to look forward to...
Muah... Muahahah... MUAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH!!!!
*ahem*
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I can understand the hesitation from a thematic point of view. But in the spirit of “Yes, and…” instead of looking for a way to shut your player down, maybe just ask for a thematic justification from the player. Not to sell YOU on the idea, but to get “on the same page” that normally these two packages are against purposes.
Again, the purpose wouldn’t be to sell you on it, but to help him clarify for himself how these two roles fit together in his character.
Confucious says:
"Baseball all wrong. Man with 4 balls can't walk."
And since Feat Retraining is one of the few class features Fighters have,
Fighter players may get jealous if you are handing out complete Class Ability Retraining...
I find that to be a pretty negligible concern. Retraining rules existed well before Pathfinder, and they existed specifically for situations like the one here (where someone might make a suboptimal choice and regret it).
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Confucious says:
"Baseball all wrong. Man with 4 balls can't walk."
Yakov Smirnoff said, "Of course you walk with four balls. You don't run. You walk proud!"
Ny the way, please forgive the out-of-step old guy. What does "FoB" mean (see Kaiyanwang's earlier post).
EDIT: When I studied accounting it meant "Free on Board", but I don't think that is the case here.
...Well, I saw this picture in Modern Primitives one time with this guy... (OH WAIT)
Just because the monk's openly-worded "unarmed strike" class feature lets him use it as a weapon doesn't mean we have to talk about it all the time.
MY monk has just one very large "package". He wears a loincloth to prove it. Ladies swoon.
My monks package counts as a two-handed weapon. Both enemies and sheep flee at the sight of is.
