| James Bolton |
OK.
I've seen lots of inflammatory threads that bash the rogue's capabilities and so far, I've frankly been unimpressed with people's arguments that rogues are no longer viable characters. But most of my group's sneaky dudes have been anything but rogues lately, and that, as a DM, has finally drawn my attention to the possibility.
The idea that the rogue isn't as good at sneaking as any of the other classes has come up as well.
So, in light of our playtest's ninja character, I've decided to look at the infiltration ability of the ninja versus that of the rogue on at least a somewhat level-to-level, apples-to-apples basis.
I'm using a halfling ninja/rogue with 18 Dex and 16 Cha.
So here goes:
Level 1
The halfling ninja and the halfing rogue each have a +15 on stealth checks. (4 dex, 4 size, 4 class skill, 3 from skill focus) They can each sneak about as long as they have something/someone to hide behind almost all of the time without being seen by anyone.
Level 2
They now have a +16 stealth.
BUT!
Now the ninja can go invisible as a swift action x times/day. This means that the ninja can effectively be seen during a stealth attempt and then hide in plain sight (a level 8 assassin ability that rogues cannot get anymore) and continue on his merry way essentially without even rolling a die.
What's more is that if the ninja needs to get away from something quickly, he can spend another ki point to move +20 feet per move action or +40 feet on a double move all the while never worrying about penalties because of speed.
The rogue, not to be outdone, takes the Fast Stealth talent. Now he no longer has to worry about penalties either, but he still has to stick to the corners of rooms, shadowy hallways, etc. and he still only moves up to 40ft on a double move. He still has to worry about rolling a 1.
Level 10
The twins now have a +38 on stealth checks (6 dex, 4 size, 13 class skill, 6 Skill Focus, 4 from Stealthy and 5 from magic).
The ninja picks up Invisible Blade.
The rogue has picked up Skill Mastery (which means he has a 48 at all times).
But he STILL has to have something to hide behind and finding something to hide behind still requires at least his move actions if not his standard... which means this rogue, by himself, will only be able to use sneak attack every other round, and then only on one attack due to having to move to hide.
Both of these guys must be good looking because they're so hard to see.
But the ninja can afford to roll a 1. He can still hide in the middle of a lit room on a sunny day in the middle of summer in Heaven. And he can still sneak attack virtually every round due to his ability to not need to spend actions to sneak or position himself without the need for a flanking buddy.
As an infiltrator, the ninja can waltz down lit corridors in Heaven and not have to worry about bumping into guards.
The rogue is really, really good at hiding behind cover, but he couldn't dream of doing the kinds of things the ninja could even once a day.
I'll stop right there. The bonuses keep going up, but the circumstantial bonus from invisibility/improved invisibility is so potent that the rogue can't keep up.
I know that sneak attack is a lot less circumstantial than it used to be thanks to the fewer numbers of creatures with immunity. But ACTUALLY SNEAKING is something that rogues should be able to do at least just as well as their ninja/arcane trickster/shadow dancer/ranger/assassin/monk/bard/wizard/sorcerer/inquisitor/alchemist buddies.
Heck, even the fighter loses his armor check penalties and with skill focus and max ranks is just about as good as the rogue at sneaking around. (In fact, a fighter and any other class that puts ranks in sneak and takes just 1 level of shadow dancer is much better at sneaking than the rogue.)
So here's my two-fold suggestion:
If, we:
give the rogue HIDE IN PLAIN SIGHT as a normal talent
and
only allow the ninja to use vanish ONLY IN AREAS OF POOR ILLUMINATION/WITH NEARBY SHADOW,
then they might just be balanced against each other as far as their actual ability to sneak around.
Although, I'm still not sure that would completely do it.