I am wondering if Paizo is planning on writing a Pathfinder version of the Stronghold Builders Guide (3.0/3.5)? I know that my group has used the SBG to do any building for many years now but there are a few things in it that I know many other gamers have addressed as issues. Such as the prohibitive cost needed to create even the most basic structure. A 10'x10' wood shack built buy the owner and supplied with wood the owner has cut himself, in a heavy forest costs 80gp... um... ok. at higher lvls it is an awesome source book but I think it may need some tweaking.
Kingmaker series apearently has a small, 12 page, blurb on communities surrounding a keep and such but I think it may be an invalueable resource for Pathfinder gamers everywhere to have an updated source book for building strongholds, communities and such.
That being said, I think the SBG is great book that anyone interested in building thier own keep, tavern, inn, or anything should pick up.
+1!
(Did I do that right? Seriously, I think that's the FIRST time I ever used +1 to agree with a post. Anywhere.)
I *JUST* had a thought on the ridiculous costs when compared to a commoner's ability to supply their own materials and labor. Treat the building like an item to be crafted by the commoner. That should make things a lot easier, I think...
Great, now I'll have to try that! :P
I still have my old 2nd ed stronghold guide, and a copy of the 3x one WotC published, and found them to be fantastic sourcebooks for how to design a castle or keep, ensuring they had all the necessary architecture that I normally wouldn't have thought about (I like realism in that area of my games). The Dungeonbuilder's handbook is likewise great.
What I haven't found yet is a book that even addresses how adventurers tend to actually build things.
Lyres of building, summoned or undead work crews, Fabricate, Polymorph any Object, Dominated Collossal beasts of burden, and other awesome/ridiculous methods of building our imagination's most awesome sandcastle has yet to really be addressed, and I'd love to see some book or articles that present the Paizo versions of such construction methods.
I would buy such a book. Paizo would have to start from the beginning, writing from the ground up, as the Stronghold Builders Guide isn't open-content.
And I've always justified the high costs this way: Building anything more than a simple house took a long time. Castles could take years if not decades to build. Most started small, and were added onto by the next generation, and the one after that, etc.
Think of the high costs as a sort of "Express Building" fee. You pay more to get the job done quicker. No one wants their stronghold to take years.
+1 for this idea. I'd buy this book.
Although, I'd like for the primary differentiator from Stronghold Builder's is for the book to be..., well - GOOD. I found the majority of 3PP similarly-themed books to be superior to SBG.
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I'd think that good solid stronghold building rules would go very well with an expansion of the Kingmaker rules that could eventually come out somewhere down the product line when there was a spot right for it. Either that or a 3rd party could try their hand at it.
I'm honestly looking for anything that helps us make things more into a Wargame when we want it.
I have been doing a little more reading on the Message-boards here and I now know that this is, most definitely, not an "out-of-the-blue" question. It seams that many a gamer is in the same mind frame as myself. So, I have a few ideas to accomplish this book;
The SBG is not a long book. Only 128pgs. If a comparable book where to be made it could, very easily be made a part of a more comprehensible book such as a Kingdom Builders Manual or a Book of World Design. (or something) In a KBM you could certainly have an entire section devoted to sieges and other Wargames, including warmachines and large scale battles. All rules that wouldn't "have" to be used unless a particular campaign asked for it. The economics for a kingdom/war could be simplified to something usable in a game setting without too much fuss.
Other sections could include comprehensive rules for building kingdoms in various terrain and trade costs, in and out, for natural resources and and goods.
But back to the SBG part, the whole concept could be toyed with but the gist of the original book could still be used, i.e. lists with prices of components and modifiers for different conditions could still be used and not infringe on the closed source material from the original book, I think. Also a more understanding implementation of Character available resources, such as magic, would be nice. Also the clear cut 30% of cost is labor is pretty asinine, it should be divided into materials and then labor. That way you could buy more workers to finish things faster or it could account for the PC's doing the labor themselves. Perhaps something along the lines of; it takes a 1 builder 1 week to build 1 stronghold space, it takes 2 half, 3 a third, etc. to a minimum of 1 day. You could pay more also to decease the time. PC's may roll craft skills to decrease time.
There is of course MUCH more that would go into this book but I would like to hear from other people what they would like to see in it too.
-Timber
James Jacobs mentions here that a guide to building strongholds most likely would be included in a kingdom building rulebook.
+1 great tool not just for players making a stronghold of course, but also a GM!
James Jacobs mentions here that a guide to building strongholds most likely would be included in a kingdom building rulebook.
I have to admit, I was somewhat surprised that some kind of a Stronghold Builders Guide wasn't included in the Kingmaker AP.
I am wondering if Paizo is planning on writing a Pathfinder version of the Stronghold Builders Guide (3.0/3.5)? I know that my group has used the SBG to do any building for many years now but there are a few things in it that I know many other gamers have addressed as issues. Such as the prohibitive cost needed to create even the most basic structure. A 10'x10' wood shack built buy the owner and supplied with wood the owner has cut himself, in a heavy forest costs 80gp... um... ok. at higher lvls it is an awesome source book but I think it may need some tweaking.
Kingmaker series apearently has a small, 12 page, blurb on communities surrounding a keep and such but I think it may be an invalueable resource for Pathfinder gamers everywhere to have an updated source book for building strongholds, communities and such.
That being said, I think the SBG is great book that anyone interested in building thier own keep, tavern, inn, or anything should pick up.
Its on my todo list. Unfortunately, I'm probably not going to get to that until Summer or Fall. But it is good to know that people are interested.
James Jacobs mentions here that a guide to building strongholds most likely would be included in a kingdom building rulebook.
Ah yes, I remember that response now from JJ.
As clearly in that thread, I am in favor of a Stronghold Builder's Guide. And where I would ok with it being with another book, I would prefer it did get it's own dedicated book.
The Stronghold Builder's Guide softcover from 3.0 is a good source, and we use it a lot, but I am certain Paizo could do even a better job and I look forward to it.