You can only add spells that are on your extract list from a wizards spellbook.
Also, brew potion. I'm under the assumption that, as long as the alchemist knows it, he can brew a potion of any spell up level and including level 3.
Unless I'm mistaken, you can only brew a spell into a potion if it is a spell that *can* be brewed. In other words, it must target one or more creatures (or objects for oils), and cannot be a Personal range spell.
Ah, so I can brew attack potions but not say cure light wounds then.Also, brew potion. I'm under the assumption that, as long as the alchemist knows it, he can brew a potion of any spell up level and including level 3.Unless I'm mistaken, you can only brew a spell into a potion if it is a spell that *can* be brewed. In other words, it must target one or more creatures (or objects for oils), and cannot be a Personal range spell.
Cure Light Wounds is on your 'spell' list, not a personal spell, and targets a creature. It's fully eligible for brewing, assuming you learned the formula.
From what I understand, an alchemist (or anyone with Brew Potion) can make any (rules-legal) potion, it's just harder if they don't have the prerequisite spell on their spell list.
Also, technically, alchemists don't have a spell list, so it's equally hard (or equally easy) for them to make any potion.
This, of course, doesn't apply to extracts.
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From what I understand, an alchemist (or anyone with Brew Potion) can make any (rules-legal) potion, it's just harder if they don't have the prerequisite spell on their spell list.
Also, technically, alchemists don't have a spell list, so it's equally hard (or equally easy) for them to make any potion.
This, of course, doesn't apply to extracts.
Potions are a spell completion item. All prerequisites need be filled. Adding 5 to the DC is not an option, though getting someone else to cast the spell during creation (arguably) is.
The Alchemist is limited to brewing potions to those spells on his Formulae List...found here: List
From what I understand, an alchemist (or anyone with Brew Potion) can make any (rules-legal) potion, it's just harder if they don't have the prerequisite spell on their spell list.
Also, technically, alchemists don't have a spell list, so it's equally hard (or equally easy) for them to make any potion.
This, of course, doesn't apply to extracts.
Potions are a spell completion item. All prerequisites need be filled. Adding 5 to the DC is not an option, though getting someone else to cast the spell during creation (arguably) is.
The Alchemist is limited to brewing potions to those spells on his Formulae List...found here: List
Potions are not a spell completion item. Spell completion items require the ability and training to cast a spell in order to use. The only requirement to use a potion is the ability to drink it... scratch that, you can have a potion poured down your throat. The only requirement to use a potion is having gastrointestinal tract of some sort.
Magic item activation methods
Spell Completion: This is the activation method for scrolls. A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that's left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on). To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can't already cast the spell, there's a chance he'll make a mistake. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action (or the spell's casting time, whichever is longer) and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.
Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Command Word: If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed.
A command word can be a real word, but when this is the case, the holder of the item runs the risk of activating the item accidentally by speaking the word in normal conversation. More often, the command word is some seemingly nonsensical word, or a word or phrase from an ancient language no longer in common use. Activating a command word magic item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Sometimes the command word to activate an item is written right on the item. Occasionally, it might be hidden within a pattern or design engraved on, carved into, or built into the item, or the item might bear a clue to the command word.
The Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (history) skills might be useful in helping to identify command words or deciphering clues regarding them. A successful check against DC 30 is needed to come up with the word itself. If that check is failed, succeeding on a second check (DC 25) might provide some insight into a clue. The spells detect magic, identify, and analyze dweomer all reveal command words if the properties of the item are successfully identified.
Use Activated: This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.
The rules around what potion you can brew under what circumstances are... odd to say the least. By the raw, it seems that any spellcaster with the brew potion feat can brew any potion. The problem with the alchemist is that they're not a spellcaster. Their brew potion ability comes with the caveat that
Brew Potion (Ex)
At 1st level, alchemists receive Brew Potion as a bonus feat. An alchemist can brew potions of any formulae he knows (up to 3rd level), using his alchemist level as his caster level. The spell must be one that can be made into a potion. The alchemist does not need to meet the prerequisites for this feat.
-The alchemist is limited to spells HE KNOWS that are potion legal.Not spells on the alchemist list, not spells he knows OF, spells he KNOWS. An alchemist only knows the spells that are in his personal, individual formulae book (spellbook)
The alchemist is the only one operating under this limitation.
Given that the class features says "any spell he knows" you might want to make potions of shield for the people who don't walk around with a big piece of metal and/or wood strapped to their arms!
The fine folks at piazo are ahead of that ------> "The spell must be one that can be made into a potion"
The only way to do that is for the alchemist to get the infusion ability. it is VERY cool when you can pass out shield and expeditious retreat "potions" to your party.
Well he can still make it into an infusion (24 hour potion) for other party members. My alchemist likes to hand out enlarge person expeditious retreat and truestrike to the meat shields.
If the alchemist could make potions of those spells there would be less reason for him to be in a party. People would simply BUY the potions from ye olde magic shoppe.
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Potions are not a spell completion item. Spell completion items require the ability and training to cast a spell in order to use.From what I understand, an alchemist (or anyone with Brew Potion) can make any (rules-legal) potion, it's just harder if they don't have the prerequisite spell on their spell list.
Also, technically, alchemists don't have a spell list, so it's equally hard (or equally easy) for them to make any potion.
This, of course, doesn't apply to extracts.
Potions are a spell completion item. All prerequisites need be filled. Adding 5 to the DC is not an option, though getting someone else to cast the spell during creation (arguably) is.
The Alchemist is limited to brewing potions to those spells on his Formulae List...found here: List
My apologies...got it all mixed up from a different thread I a created...and stopped checking.
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Well he can still make it into an infusion (24 hour potion) for other party members. My alchemist likes to hand out enlarge person expeditious retreat and truestrike to the meat shields.
If the alchemist could make potions of those spells there would be less reason for him to be in a party. People would simply BUY the potions from ye olde magic shoppe.
Why could he NOT create an Enlarge Person Potion? It is not a personal spell.
Why could he NOT create an Enlarge Person Potion? It is not a personal spell.Well he can still make it into an infusion (24 hour potion) for other party members. My alchemist likes to hand out enlarge person expeditious retreat and truestrike to the meat shields.
If the alchemist could make potions of those spells there would be less reason for him to be in a party. People would simply BUY the potions from ye olde magic shoppe.
Oh, he can create the potion. Its just a VERY good spell to hand to a meatshield.
Question One: You are correct, once you brew an extract, it is set for the day.
Question Two: It functions like a potion, it affects the person who drinks it, and unless you have the infusion ability, only you can benefit from it.
The next day, yes.
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Ah, so I can let that extract go inert and chose another extract from the formulae list to make then?Question One: You are correct, once you brew an extract, it is set for the day.
Question Two: It functions like a potion, it affects the person who drinks it, and unless you have the infusion ability, only you can benefit from it.
No, once you prepare an extract you've burned one of your extracts per day. You can however only prepare a couple extracts in the morning then spend a little time later in the day to prepare additional extracts up to your extracts per day limit.
So if you have 4 1st level extracts per day you might prepare Enlarge Person and Cure Light Wounds in the morning; you have used 2 of your first level extracts for the day and have 2 remaining. Later in the day perhaps you need to identify some magic items so you take a minute and prepare an Identify extract and quaff it. You have now burned three of your first level extracts per day...
Generally I prepare only enough extracts to meet a single combat's needs and leave the rest unprepped for events that come up during the day.
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Just wanted to say that anyone with Brew Potion can brew any rules-legal potion provided they can beat the Spellcraft DC.
Wizards with cure potions for the win!
Brew Potion (Ex)
At 1st level, alchemists receive Brew Potion as a bonus feat. An alchemist can brew potions of any formulae he knows (up to 3rd level), using his alchemist level as his caster level. The spell must be one that can be made into a potion. The alchemist does not need to meet the prerequisites for this feat.
-The alchemist is limited to spells HE KNOWS that are potion legal.Not spells on the alchemist list, not spells he knows OF, spells he KNOWS. An alchemist only knows the spells that are in his personal, individual formulae book (spellbook)
The alchemist is the only one operating under this limitation.
I forgot about that. Huh.
As GM, I may have to "forget" about that particular clause.
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Brew Potion (Ex)
At 1st level, alchemists receive Brew Potion as a bonus feat. An alchemist can brew potions of any formulae he knows (up to 3rd level), using his alchemist level as his caster level. The spell must be one that can be made into a potion. The alchemist does not need to meet the prerequisites for this feat.
-The alchemist is limited to spells HE KNOWS that are potion legal.Not spells on the alchemist list, not spells he knows OF, spells he KNOWS. An alchemist only knows the spells that are in his personal, individual formulae book (spellbook)
The alchemist is the only one operating under this limitation.
I forgot about that. Huh.
As GM, I may have to "forget" about that particular clause.
How is it different for a wizard or sorcerer or witch?
BREW POTION: Benefit: You can create a potion of any 3rd-level or lower spell that you know and that targets one or more creatures.
Seems only the classes that have a full list to memorize from every day, a'la cleric/druid, can make any potion from their list
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After reading over the rules I'm a little unclear on learning extracts. I know that the alchemist has a formulae list, but I'm getting the impression that he can turn other spells into extracts that are not on the list, since he can learn from a wizards spellbook. I'm a little lost on this.
An alchemist can only make extracts from formulae in his formulae book.
It would be a little overpowered if an alchemist could make infused extracts of any 6th level spell. and there are no clear rules on how some of these spells would react. It is a little unclear how some of his extract are suppose to work already.
see here
Pritty sure your not suppose to trick someone into drinking an extract... that you would have had to had infused.
Also, brew potion. I'm under the assumption that, as long as the alchemist knows it, he can brew a potion of any spell up level and including level 3.
It would be cool if it were that easy but unfortunately you need to check the spells description.
- If the spell doesn't have TARGET in its description it can't be made into a potion.
- If the range is personal it can't be made into a potion.
- If it does not targets one or more creatures it can't be made into a potion.
Heres a list of alchemist spells that an alchemist can make without the assistance of others.
- Ant Haul
- Crafter's Fortune
- Cure Light Wounds
- Endure Elements
- Enlarge Person
- Jump
- Keen Senses
- Negate Aroma
- Reduce Person
- Touch of the Sea
- Aid
- Barkskin
- Bear's Endurance
- Blur
- Bull's Strength{*]Cat's Grace
- Cure Moderate Wounds
- Darkvision
- Delay Poison
- Eagle's Splendor
- Fox's Cunning
- Invisibility(although this does have a range of personal)
- Levitate(same I think)
- Owl's Wisdom
- Protection from Arrows
- Resist Energy
- Restoration, Lesser
- Spider Climb
- Undetectable Alignment
- Cure Serious Wounds
- Displacement
- Draconic Reservoir
- Elemental Aura
- Fly
- Gaseous Form
- Haste
- Heroism
- Nondetection
- Protection from Energy
- Rage
- Remove Blindness/Deafness
- Remove Curse
- Remove Disease
- Tongues
- Water Breathing
But you can do even better than that because you can infuse your extracts allowing you to make potion like things that you can hand out to the rest of your party.
Brew Potion (Ex): At 1st level, alchemists receive Brew Potion as a bonus feat. An alchemist can brew potions of any formulae he knows (up to 3rd level), using his alchemist level as his caster level. The spell must be one that can be made into a potion. The alchemist does not need to meet the prerequisites for this feat.
It is important to note that an alchemist receives the Brew Potion feat and as such receives all of the benefits of said feat.
There isn't anything in the rest of the description that substitutes any of the rules in the feat. There isn't any use of "instead" or "except that." The text that follows is only there to emphasis the feats most common usage for the class.
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Brew Potion (Ex): At 1st level, alchemists receive Brew Potion as a bonus feat. An alchemist can brew potions of any formulae he knows (up to 3rd level), using his alchemist level as his caster level. The spell must be one that can be made into a potion. The alchemist does not need to meet the prerequisites for this feat.It is important to note that an alchemist receives the Brew Potion feat and as such receives all of the benefits of said feat.
There isn't anything in the rest of the description that substitutes any of the rules in the feat. There isn't any use of "instead" or "except that." The text that follows is only there to emphasis the feats most common usage for the class.
Well, depending on how you read the crafting rules there may or may not be a problem with the line "can brew potions of any formulae he knows". Some people think you can't brew potions you don't know the spell for, some people think you can brew any potion with help, and some people think that you can brew any potion by adding 5 to the DC.
Brew Potion (Ex): At 1st level, alchemists receive Brew Potion as a bonus feat. An alchemist can brew potions of any formulae he knows (up to 3rd level), using his alchemist level as his caster level. The spell must be one that can be made into a potion. The alchemist does not need to meet the prerequisites for this feat.It is important to note that an alchemist receives the Brew Potion feat and as such receives all of the benefits of said feat.
There isn't anything in the rest of the description that substitutes any of the rules in the feat. There isn't any use of "instead" or "except that." The text that follows is only there to emphasis the feats most common usage for the class.
Well, depending on how you read the crafting rules there may or may not be a problem with the line "can brew potions of any formulae he knows". Some people think you can't brew potions you don't know the spell for, some people think you can brew any potion with help, and some people think that you can brew any potion by adding 5 to the DC.
Even under the strictest interpretation an alchemist can still brew potions of extracts that he knows. The brew potion class ability modifies how his brew potion feat works (allowing him to brew potions of extracts that he knows rather than spells that he knows).
Brew Potion (Ex) [snip]
At 1st level, alchemists receive Brew Potion as a bonus feat. An alchemist can brew potions of any formulae he knows (up to 3rd level), using his alchemist level as his caster level. [snip]
The alchemist is the only one operating under this limitation.
I forgot about that. Huh.
As GM, I may have to "forget" about that particular clause.
How is it different for a wizard or sorcerer or witch?
BREW POTION: Benefit: You can create a potion of any 3rd-level or lower spell that you know and that targets one or more creatures.Seems only the classes that have a full list to memorize from every day, a'la cleric/druid, can make any potion from their list
It's part of how people interpret the feat, and the item creation rules. The Brew Potion feat, as you pointed out, allows one to create potions of spells that one knows. Alchemists don't know any spells. The clause about alchemists brewing potions of any formulae they know I see as an exception, or addition, to the feat. [Edit: This is re-stating what Ravingdork said above, although I consider the alchemist class ability as adding to, rather than modifying, the feat.]
Can one brew a potion of a spell one doesn't know? In my reading of the rules, yes, with the extra +5 DC. Can one brew a potion of a spell when one doesn't know any spells? That's where the alchemist falls, and I'll likely allow it, assuming I don't hear any sufficient balance arguments to the contrary.
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It's part of how people interpret the feat, and the item creation rules. The Brew Potion feat, as you pointed out, allows one to create potions of spells that one knows. Alchemists don't know any spells. The clause about alchemists brewing potions of any formulae they know I see as an exception, or addition, to the feat. [Edit: This is re-stating what Ravingdork said above, although I consider the alchemist class ability as adding to, rather than modifying, the feat.]Can one brew a potion of a spell one doesn't know? In my reading of the rules, yes, with the extra +5 DC. Can one brew a potion of a spell when one doesn't know any spells? That's where the alchemist falls, and I'll likely allow it, assuming I don't hear any sufficient balance arguments to the contrary.
I was only replying to the previous poster's emphasis that only the Alchemist is limited to only creating potions of spells/formula that he knows. Not just on his list, but actually in his book. The Brew Potion feat has the same language applying to all other casters. They must know it.
I think it is obvious that the words "spell" and "formula" are to be interchangeable, in this case at least.
I agree on the point of allowing one to brew a potion without actually knowing the spell/formula for a +5 to the DC, though I would insist that said person need have the spell on their list or they get another caster to cast it for them.
The question is, IF I am level 1, and only get level 1 formulae, but I have level 2 spell in my formulae book (ie. Spiderclimb), can I brew a potion of Spiderclimb?
Nope. From the potion brewing rules
The creator must have prepared the spell to be placed in the potion (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires.
So an alchemist pretty much takes an extract and brews it into a potion.
Just wanted to say that anyone with Brew Potion can brew any rules-legal potion provided they can beat the Spellcraft DC.
Wizards with cure potions for the win!
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
One could split hairs, since this paragraph contradicts itself in at least three places--"must be met" followed by "DC increases by +5 if not met" followed by "only exception" followed by "in addition (guess it isn't the only exception)". But it's clear that they intended to disallow scrolls, wands, staves, and (explictly) potions if you don't meet the spell prerequisite.
That said, your wizard could theoretically use Craft Wondrous Item to make chewing gum of cure light wounds. It boggles the mind, but there it is.
So what would be the point of ever creating an extract ifcan just make an infinite number of the same potions with the same affects?
Because an extract is 'free', whilst a potion has a cost associated to make it. Even for an Alchemist, it's still 25g x spell level x effective caster level to create the potion.
Additionally, since this thread was started a couple years ago, they've clarified that in order to create a potion, you must have the spell you're 'brewing' - no substituting a +5 to the DC when you don't have the spell, so no Wizards brewing Cure Light Wounds potions.