How do I divide up XP per player when party relies on Summon Monster?

[Mister Cheesy]

My 5 players last night was fighting a 5 bandit group. For whatever reason they used Monster Summoning II twice to bring in 2 extra creatures (celestial wolves) to assist them in wiping out the bandit menace.

Does this summoning affect the APL of the party? Do I consider the party size to be 7 when I divide up experience?

I've seen a lot of discussion on how monster CR includes summoning abilities, but I don't see much on how it impacts awards if its the players doing the summoning.

I'm thinking there should be some impact in the awards to the players, as all the summonings really made the encounter easier.

[Bill Dunn]

Nothing should be affected. Character powers are supposed to make encounters easier. And that's just what a summoned monster is.

[Richard Leonhart]

I would argue that like any spell, it's part of what the player does.
I wizard summoning monsters shouldn't get less exp than the wizard casting fireballs.

If you say that it made the encounter easier, does it make the encounter easier than any other spell?

Perhaps your foes where just not prepared well enough for summoning spells.

Anyhow, giving some valuable actions an exp penalty is hardly the way to go. That's my opinion, others might see it differently.

[Deidre Tiriel]

Do you break up the XP for animal companions?

What about if the wizard cast fireball instead of summoning?

Is a ranger penalized if they happen to fight his favored enemy?

Summoning is a part of the class. You never divide XP for class abilities.

[EDIT] not even a cohort from the Leadership feat takes away a character's XP.

[Mok]

The summoning from the players is factored into their overall power. If a spell was cast to summon monsters then a resource (spell slot, charge from wand, etc.) is being used up, making the party weaker for the next encounter.

The overall system is balanced on the assumption that a party of four characters will have roughly four encounters (at APL) per day, and that each encounter is going to expend about 20% of the party's resources (spells, hit points, potions, scrolls).

If you only have once encounter for the day, even if it is APL+4, then the players can pour all of their resources into the fight and possibly make it a lot less of a nailbiting experience. Having five players makes it even easier, because another set of hit points and other resources are being brought to bear.

So in your example, what would need to happen to realize the drama of the system is that a total of 20 bandits would need to be encountered that day, not all at once, but broke up into three or four different situations. By that last encounter the players will have been drained of a lot of spells, healing, etc. and have a real fight on their hands.

[DrDew]

It's just a spell so unless you're docking XP whenever they cast fireball then no, it has no effect on the amount of xp they earn.

[Stubs McKenzie]

Also realize that the CR of a creature with summon monster does not go up by using said spell. It could cast SM-V 10x, making the party wade through summons just to get to it, and its CR stays the same.

[Mister Cheesy]

Ok thanks, just checking...

[Prawn]

Also, remember that summoning may be worse than other spells in many circumstances since it requires a full round to cast. It is much easier to disrupt and costs a standard AND a move action.

[Trista1986]

Mister Cheesy wrote:

My 5 players last night was fighting a 5 bandit group. For whatever reason they used Monster Summoning II twice to bring in 2 extra creatures (celestial wolves) to assist them in wiping out the bandit menace.

Does this summoning affect the APL of the party? Do I consider the party size to be 7 when I divide up experience?

I've seen a lot of discussion on how monster CR includes summoning abilities, but I don't see much on how it impacts awards if its the players doing the summoning.

I'm thinking there should be some impact in the awards to the players, as all the summonings really made the encounter easier.

No and I wouldn't even split any XP even if they hired a Hireling since they are weakening themselves by spending gold they could otherwise spend elsewhere. Actually just do away with XP and tell them to level when you feel like then they never get more powerful than they should be and you have to do a lot less work. Keeps the suspense of when they will get abilities up and they won't think more about how to deal situations with what they have and not what they will get later.