Really? there is no other way the katana can be used?
I didn't say that. I said that a cutting weapon with a handle long enough to be gripped with both hands is probably intended to be used with both hands.
If samurai don't use shields, what is the point of wielding a Katana with only one hand?
the current katana in the play test is the bastard sword, so i am assuming the actual stats for katana will represent a hand and a half feature (like dwarven war axe as well)
Otherwise I think they would have said "just use the elven curved blade" if it was going to be two handed only.
I think the closest ive ever gotten to wielding a katana was holding one in a store that sold replicas. Seems like you could swing it either way.
But like Ive said soemwhere else. 14th-19th century japanese weren't necessarily large men, so the two handed style was probably most prefered.
If you watch the movie highlander (hardly authentic but you get the gist) It seems to flow between two handed and one handed rather well.
I don't like the shield for the samurai but this is fantasy, and im sure the dev's left it there because there was no real reason to take it out.
Personally Id rather lose shield and get an extra skill point, anything.
But Ill say this, our current Ronin would have alot less AC without his +3 heavy shield.... I just dont care to visualize it, there is just something wrong.
I have a Japanese cousin and uncle (father-son) who are over 6 foot tall, but they are exceptions. I am only 5' 5" tall (short I know), but when I was in Japan, in Tokyo, I remember walking down a street with heavy pedestrian traffic, and most people came to my chin in height. I could see for blocks ahead even though thousands of people were in front of me. The point, yes Japanese men are generally short so I have to agree that the majority were 2-handed katana wielders.
In Kaidan, the katana is equivalent to "elven curved blade" in stats, not to "bastard sword". So what Paizo wants to base katana on, means little to me. I will publish it as 'curved blade', so I am not overly concerned.
Musashi, author of the Legend of the Five Rings, wielded katana one-handed, and wielded 2-handed style with katana and wakizashi, but he was pretty much alone in these techniques, something he developed on his own. Musashi, however, was always a ronin, and not considered highly by his peers because of that. Only his book published after his death gave any kind of meaning and history to Musashi. So using Musashi as an example of 'hey, the Japanese also wielded the katana single handed' is a poor example, since he didn't learn this in school and never taught it to any students - it was his own thing.
So there's a very good chance that only one Japanese person in history ever wielded katana single handed, or used 2-weapon style. There is no need to include rules for single handed/2-weapon style, as there is only a single historical example of that. All other Japanese historically wielded the katana as a 2-handed weapon only.
The point, yes Japanese men are generally short so I have to agree that the majority were 2-handed katana wielders.
That isn't why they held the Katana with both hands. Wielding a cutting weapon with both hands gives more power, more speed, and more control no matter how tall or short you are.
Giving the Katana the stats of a curved blade is OP assuming the Samurai gets Exotic Prof: Katana for free. Add Keen or Improved Critical and the DPR is better than a Greatsword on top of a bonus CMD against Sunder and it's finesse-able. Why should a Katana be finesse-able?
Oh, I definitely understand why its 2-handed, and not because of height, but I was adding to the point that, yes, Japanese are short.
I have to look at it again regarding curved blade, because I still want to add no-daichi for a great sword, so elven blade might fit that better. I really didn't want to have to create custom stats for katana, but bastard sword doesn't work for me. I'm starting to agree that curved blade is too big for katana.
I think the closest ive ever gotten to wielding a katana was holding one in a store that sold replicas. Seems like you could swing it either way.
But like Ive said soemwhere else. 14th-19th century japanese weren't necessarily large men, so the two handed style was probably most prefered.
Being able to swing a sword one handed doesn´t mean it´s effective in battle - I can swing a show fighting two handed sword in one hand but I wouldn´t hit anything like that.
While PnP RPGs often treat two handed weapons as stronger - doing more damage, in d20 get 1,5 STR Bonus, actual two handed swords were more precise than one handed ones, as for the damage, a direct hit from a weapon means you´re out. (and two handed swords allowed more tricks like armor piercing stabs)Other thing: what kind of replica was that? Decoration sword or show fight sword? Decoration swords have a much to low weight (most of the times). (just imagine a guy with a LARP-latex-sword which resembles one of cloud strifes swords ^^)
If you watch the movie highlander (hardly authentic but you get the gist) It seems to flow between two handed and one handed rather well.
Yeah, that could be a real one and a half handed style... however, such a style still does not allow using a shield, basically it is two handed fighting
(your part about it being a fantasy so screw reality is of course just true)The point, yes Japanese men are generally short so I have to agree that the majority were 2-handed katana wielders.
I don´t get it. What has being short to do with how you wield your weapon? I mean, we are talking about small humans, not very small other beings like halflings. A small but trained european should be able to wield an european longsword (originally the term "longsword" refers to any two handed bladed weapon, still does that for historicans) without problems
Why should a Katana be finesse-able?
I guess that´s cause people imagining katana fighting has much more grace than fighting with european two handed swords (which is not quite true, actual european fighting styles have a lot in common with katana styles)
I never understood why strength raises your ability to hit in the first place, but well...Mechanically speaking, let them finesse it. Weapon finesse is very useful for archers and other high dex chars like many rogues but samurais wear armors, primarily use melee weapons and have no special damage source like sneak attack, so using weapon finesse is no powergaming for them
The point, yes Japanese men are generally short so I have to agree that the majority were 2-handed katana wielders.I don´t get it. What has being short to do with how you wield your weapon? I mean, we are talking about small humans, not very small other beings like halflings. A small but trained european should be able to wield an european longsword (originally the term "longsword" refers to any two handed bladed weapon, still does that for historicans) without problems
Yeah, if you read my last post, I was just agreeing Japanese were short, not that height has anything to do with wielding a weapon. I was commenting on Pendagast's post before mine - so respond to him, not me.
GP
See, I'm 6'5" and 250 lbs. Most actual katana are kinda smallish for me. My chest is 54" in diameter, and I'm stonger than most average people.
Swinging a katana one handed is going to be much easier for me than swinging it two handed for flexibility and range of motion reasons. But to a Samurai in 16th century I would have been a Giant.
Norsemen wielded some big heavy, long blades one handed, but they also planted two hands on them depending on the circumstance. That's were we get the idea for the bastard sword from.
Another easy to picture idea of that is Aragorn in Lord of the rings, although Viggo Mortensen isn't an overly big guy, the way they have his prop sword sized for him, dimensionally, this a "hand and a half" sword. He wields it in both fashions.
I'd imagine this is similar to how katana were fought with, they are light and controllable enough to be fought with in one hand for quick iaijutsu strokes and specialized techniques and all, but as soon as you can plant two hands on the hilt, there really is no reason not to.
Still doesn't mean Golarion samurai don't use shields.
A quick rundown from memory. In the bronze age the sword primarily used in Japan was a strait blade that resembled the Chinese jian. The kusanagi sword is supposed to be of this type, though it has not been seen by the public or historical community. Steel production began as the Japanese feudal system evolved. During this period of isolationism, the sword style developed separately from mainland Asia. During this time the samurai class began to form and though the bow was considered the more important weapon of the samurai, they did use a sword called a tachi. The tachi is a single edged steel cutting sword like the katana. The Primary differences are that a tachi is worn edge downwards, meant to be used while mounted, and is generally to large to draw comfortably while on foot. After the unification of Imperial Japan, and towards the end of the feudal era, the samurai were less likely to be on the battlefield. Samurai were most likely to fight in a duel or otherwise on foot, as mounted combat had fallen out of favor. The favored style of sword became the katana, witch can be drawn quickly, is worn edge upward, and is designed to be used in a duel or on foot. Also, shortly before the end of isolation, a law was passed limiting the length of swords worn to katana length. Most tachi were cut down and remade as katana. Therefore, not many tachi survive to this day, nor is there much knowledge concerning their use.
they are light and controllable enough to be fought with in one hand for quick iaijutsu strokes and specialized techniques and all, but as soon as you can plant two hands on the hilt, there really is no reason not to.
pretty much this
The katana is primarily a two handed weapon. While some maneuvers, such as cutting from the draw, are done with one hand, most fighting would be done with two hands.
There are some styles, such as the one created by Myamoto Musahi that do not follow this form, but they are the exception rather than the rule.