|
I just read through the ninja again to make sure and it appears none of the ninja's abilities are restricted to light armor. All a ninja has to do is take two feats or dip one level and he can wear full plate armor and not lose any ninja abilities. Although I don't think ki should be completely restricted by armor, the bonus to acrobatic jump checks should be light or no armor. Also I think "Light step" speaks for itself.
I just read through the ninja again to make sure and it appears none of the ninja's abilities are restricted to light armor. All a ninja has to do is take two feats or dip one level and he can wear full plate armor and not lose any ninja abilities. Although I don't think ki should be completely restricted by armor, the bonus to acrobatic jump checks should be light or no armor. Also I think "Light step" speaks for itself.
Rogue can use everything but eveasion in heavy armor. Did you fail to notice that?
Likely you never considered it because evasion is useful, but he could.
lightstep should probably have its description changed to include the no heavy armor clause, same with acrobatics. That's a good catch IMHO.
IMHO, they should.
in the years since the ninja became popularized (dang those 80s)
I have seen plenty of ninja wear chain/scale mail and seem un-hindered.
Should a ninja wearing the samurais O-yoroi be hampered?
For the most part, ninja didnt wear armor because of noise, the need to make a quick change of costume and the fact that they didnt want to be recognized and armor, being very individualized, was easily recognizable.
Kind of like someones car, Even if everyone owns a 1981 chevette, you can still tell yours with the dent in the side and the "gas guzzler" bumper sticker from the other ones in the parking lot.
the whole black mask/hood thing is largely an invention of 1980s media, and it seems they were more likely disguised completely as something else (gardener, bodyguard, messanger, or...wait for even a samurai)
Black hooded masks would have been very noticeable. Like wearing a neon saying "ninja".
Ninja were, like the devil, constantly trying to convince you they were figments of your imagination and not to worry about them or give them consideration because they did not exist.
stories about them disappearing etc, were likely due to the fact they were so good at disguise and subterfuge, and less about any actual "powers"
but to do the legend "justice" and have a fun game we give them some legendary powers, and accept it as such along with vorpal swords and lightening bolts.
So I dont see issues with a ninja, who wanted to impersonate a samurai, and spent the feats to wear heavy armor, doing just that (after all he spent to feats to do it!)
|
|
in the years since the ninja became popularized (dang those 80s)
I have seen plenty of ninja wear chain/scale mail and seem un-hindered.
Should a ninja wearing the samurais O-yoroi be hampered?
For the most part, ninja didnt wear armor because of noise, the need to make a quick change of costume and the fact that they didnt want to be recognized and armor, being very individualized, was easily recognizable.
So I dont see issues with a ninja, who wanted to impersonate a samurai, and spent the feats to wear heavy armor, doing just that (after all he spent to feats to do it!)
I agree with you and understand that real ninjas were more spies/scouts than assassins. However from a mechanical standpoint some balancing issues could be dealt with by restricting armor. Also, nothing would prevent the ninja from wearing armor and disguising himself as that samurai, just his ninja abilities relying on agility would be hampered.
I agree with you and understand that real ninjas were more spies/scouts than assassins. However from a mechanical standpoint some balancing issues could be dealt with by restricting armor. Also, nothing would prevent the ninja from wearing armor and disguising himself as that samurai, just his ninja abilities relying on agility would be hampered.
That's what armor check penalties are for. The only class ability that's really affected by heavier armor is evasion and the ninja doesn't even get that automatically. Historically ninja did wear armor, often lamellar armour.
well even though they lose evasion, being kitted out in mithril fullplate (or a mthril O-Yoroi) and using light step seems a bit much. Can you see such an armored ninja dancing across the surface of a moat or the arm of a cherry tree sapling? Mithril shirt, yes. Full samurai O-Yoroi with attached war banner? A little too wackadoo for me.
well the ranger is limited and so is the barbarian to several of their abilites (fast move, combat style) when it comes to armor types/ heaviness, seems only fair to keep in that theme (still like the idea of my light stepping ninja in full plate running across a moat....hilarious, crouching tiger, hidden tank, anyone?)
|
|
That's what armor check penalties are for. The only class ability that's really affected by heavier armor is evasion and the ninja doesn't even get that automatically. Historically ninja did wear armor, often lamellar armour.
Yes, for the rogue evasion is the only class ability restricted by armor hence giving the rogue more options then a ninja restricted to light armor. As for other classes, look a the ranger with his combat-styles limited, or barbarian with fast movement, or monk with... everything...
I looked up lamellar armor and it is a breastplate/scale mail. So ninja's could still use them if they burn a feat and get mithril.
|
|
Then just re-write the Light Step as only working in light armour or less... otherwise it beats the ranger TWF restrictions, a lot of the monk restrictions and the Rogue evasion.
Repeating myself here but I said that Light Step, the ability to use ki to enhance acrobatics, and ninja tricks should be considered to be only used in light or no armor. By restricting ninja tricks, you also make them seperate from rogue tricks which are unrestricted.
|
Ninjas and rogue do have to invest in feats in order to have proficiencies, but talents/tricks are pretty plentiful to cover that feat loss. Weapon training, combat trick, finesse rogue, etc make rogues that take them the one of the least feat-starved classes in the game.
Medium Armor Proficiency is a combat feat, right?
|
|
The penalties to stealth and movement, as well as the feat investment required, would pretty much discourage going that route.
No it would not. By gaining higher armor proficiencies you can limit your reliance on dexterity and focus on strength. Strength is the key to putting out comparable DPR to fighters. If a monk's abilities weren't restricted by armor don't you think you would be investing feats or dipping once into fighter so you could have full plate?
Why is the ranger's combat style restricted while the ninja's ability to improve his acrobatics drastically or an ability named "light step" is not?
As for movement, most dex based characters will want to be halflings which have 20ft. movement anyways. This can be overcome by dipping into inquisitor to gain the travel domain and +10ft. movement.
The penalties to stealth and movement, as well as the feat investment required, would pretty much discourage going that route.No it would not. By gaining higher armor proficiencies you can limit your reliance on dexterity and focus on strength. Strength is the key to putting out comparable DPR to fighters. If a monk's abilities weren't restricted by armor don't you think you would be investing feats or dipping once into fighter so you could have full plate?
Why is the ranger's combat style restricted while the ninja's ability to improve his acrobatics drastically or an ability named "light step" is not?
As for movement, most dex based characters will want to be halflings which have 20ft. movement anyways. This can be overcome by dipping into inquisitor to gain the travel domain and +10ft. movement.
Agreed. Of anyone, the ninja has the most bonuses to stealth built in. She can spend a ki to become invisible for a few rounds, if she can't trust her dex+stealth (likely maxed) will cover the job. Hell if she stands still, she gets a bonus from No Trace. Even if by some stretch of the imagination, she does not have Vanishing Trick she could spend a Ki to get +4 circumstance bonus to stealth in any case, which would more than cover the armor check penalty.
Armor is fairly viable right now, with no noticeable drawback that I can see. Hell, mithril fullplate of speed has a armor check of penalty of -3! That's cake!