Director of Brand Strategy
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As of today, with the release of the Ultimate Combat playtest document, the current contents of Chapter 13 are available on paizo.com at http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/resources. In the near future, we will be laying out the contents of that page as a simple, easy to print pdf which will also be kept up to date. We will notify all Pathfinder Society members and customers who have downloaded the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play whenever new content is added to this document, just as we have done with new updates to Chapter 13.
This is the first in several steps we are making to put the most commonly referenced material in as easily-updatable and available a spot as possible.
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As of today, with the release of the Ultimate Combat playtest document, the current contents of Chapter 13 are available on paizo.com at http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/resources. In the near future, we will be laying out the contents of that page as a simple, easy to print pdf which will also be kept up to date. We will notify all Pathfinder Society members and customers who have downloaded the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play whenever new content is added to this document, just as we have done with new updates to Chapter 13.
This is the first in several steps we are making to put the most commonly referenced material in as easily-updatable and available a spot as possible.
Fantastic idea! And great news that these classes will be PFS legal!
Small typo in the Ultimate Combat Playtest section:
You must also keep a close eye on the Ultimate Combar playtest messageboards to be aware of changes and you must bring a printed copy of the playtest with you to any session where you play your character.
Additional resources online = great move.
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Very nice. But I noticed, too, that the Halfling book wasn't mentioned, yet?
Awesome job, this is the type of stuff I can't wait to see more of - easily update-able material.
Also, is there a chance you could update the Bestiary: Feats portion to be more specific of what happens if a companion, Eidolon, etc. is given a Bestiary feat, like Multiattack for the Eidolon for example? I know this is probably only one of a few changes to wording that is being looked at, but it's one I just thought of since I'm prepping my Summoner for the weekend.
Noticed too that there's no word on Bestiary 2 either...not complaining, just tossing it out.
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Yay I can finally play my First character I wanted to play in PFS... Gunslinger!!Frakkin' Texans.
I am not a Texan... I just live here.. I still consider my myself an Long Islander.
Really though... It was the first question I asked josh on these boards.. If we could use Firearms... He said No.. :(.
Very nice. But I noticed, too, that the Halfling book wasn't mentioned, yet?Awesome job, this is the type of stuff I can't wait to see more of - easily update-able material.
Also, is there a chance you could update the Bestiary: Feats portion to be more specific of what happens if a companion, Eidolon, etc. is given a Bestiary feat, like Multiattack for the Eidolon for example? I know this is probably only one of a few changes to wording that is being looked at, but it's one I just thought of since I'm prepping my Summoner for the weekend.
Noticed too that there's no word on Bestiary 2 either...not complaining, just tossing it out.
I am pretty sure it was answered more than once that when it says the feats are not legal, that this includes being not legal for your animal companion or eidolon as well.
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Yay I can finally play my First character I wanted to play in PFS... Gunslinger!!Frakkin' Texans.I am not a Texan... I just live here.. I still consider my myself an Long Islander.
Really though... It was the first question I asked josh on these boards.. If we could use Firearms... He said No.. :(.
Can we still ban Dragnmoon from playing the Gunslinger? Plz and thank you.
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I am pretty sure it was answered more than once that when it says the feats are not legal, that this includes being not legal for your animal companion or eidolon as well.
And this is exactly why I'm asking for clarification, because of this quote from Josh back a year ago in the FAQ...that I don't believe has been overridden (or I can't find a post saying it has at least):
I shall clarify my clarification. Companions receive multiattack because it's listed as a special ability (bonus feat) in the companion table under the druid entry. However, even though imp. nat. armor and imp. nat. attack are listed as potential feats under the "animal feats" entry, they are not legal for play in Pathfinder Society.
So actually, the Eidolon does get it -- but it's buried in an old FAQ post only. (Post Link)
My hope is between this nice list of additional resources and the (hopefully soon to be here) main FAQ, this type of thing will go away.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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I have not yet gone through Halflings of Golarion or other recent releases but felt we needed PFS support for the playtest, as it's the largest group of playtesters among our community. When additional resources are added, we will send out an email notifying you of their addition (and I'll post in this thread).
I've also added the suggested restriction on gunslingers' free guns being unsellable. Thanks for the feedback.
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Can we just dump the Gunslinger? I just read it over, and the class really doesn't add enough to the campaign to justify damaging the flavor of the setting by adding guns to the world.
Grit points? That's so... not D&D.
-Matt
There is already Guns in the world....There have been since it's inception.
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Can we just dump the Gunslinger?
I'm sure that point of view will be considered, but I wouldn't hold your breath. The society is a huge part of Paizo's customer base, many of whom don't game outside of the organized play. Banning major options like character classes, could result in lower sales. I do not think that is precedent we would like to see.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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But this isn't D&D, this is Pathfinder. ;-)Grit points? That's so... not D&D.And to me, grit is D&D.
Heh. Well said. And Pathfinder is the grittiest version of D&D I've ever played, bar none.
[disclaimer] Do not misconstrue this statement as support for the Gunslinger. I still dislike it rather thoroughly, but will leave that discussion to the other thread.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Canada—Manitoba
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I understand the benefit to the Ultimate Combat playtest by including gunslingers et al. in PFS. Can anyone demonstrate what the benefit to PFS is? While you're thinking, I can list a few problems for PFS play caused by forcefeeding us the playtest stuff.
* We coordinators now have to tell our GMs that they need to stay on top of three playtest classes, one of which involves firearms, and be able to deal with any issues. It's hard enough to convince people to GM already, without forcing them to be playtesters as well. And some people (including some GMs) just hate guns in D&D/Pathfinder.
* Not everyone who plays in PFS does so because they want to help Paizo beta-test their game. I've playtested the magus in a home game, but never in PFS because it's supposed to be an organized play, wild-cards-removed, fair system. Adding playtest material takes away that level playing field because by definition we don't know how it will affect the outcome of the games. Does the APL of the party still work with a playtest character? What about two?
* Based on the APG playtest classes, I expect that several of the abilities and mechanics of the playtest classes will be unbalanced. Unbalanced characters *ruin* games for everyone involved, either because they bog down play with endless rules interpretations, or the GM isn't up on the rules and the player tries to put one over on them.
* In my groups, it will be the one or two folks who love finding rules loopholes who will make up gunslingers and push them to the limit. Good for the gunslinger playtest; bad for the other players at the table who have had their genre changed and have to deal with exploding rules.
To me, losing any players or worse, GMs, over the addition of this material would be a major problem. At the very least, requiring consent of the others at the table to use the playtest material should have been required. Paizo is putting product before player in this case, and it disappoints.
Now, off to read and understand three platyest classes before my next game instead of making a nice battlemap. I look forward to seeing other peoples' interpretations of why this is good for PFS.
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* We coordinators now have to tell our GMs that they need to stay on top of three playtest classes, one of which involves firearms, and be able to deal with any issues. It's hard enough to convince people to GM already, without forcing them to be playtesters as well. And some people (including some GMs) just hate guns in D&D/Pathfinder.
As ever in PFS, the PLAYER must bring the relevant rules material if it isn't in the core assumption. If he doesn't have the material, he cannot use it in PFS.
* Not everyone who plays in PFS does so because they want to help Paizo beta-test their game. I've playtested the magus in a home game, but never in PFS because it's supposed to be an organized play, wild-cards-removed, fair system. Adding playtest material takes away that level playing field because by definition we don't know how it will affect the outcome of the games. Does the APL of the party still work with a playtest character? What about two?
APL is a very broad-grained concept to begin with, and it is entirely possible to bring in characters, made with just assumptions material, to break a table's APL. A playtest class or two isn't going to have a large effect.
* Based on the APG playtest classes, I expect that several of the abilities and mechanics of the playtest classes will be unbalanced. Unbalanced characters *ruin* games for everyone involved, either because they bog down play with endless rules interpretations, or the GM isn't up on the rules and the player tries to put one over on them.
Unbalanced characters, and my main PC, built using material from the core assumptions and one feat from the APG, can be built without playtest classes, so don't blame that on the playtest.
I wound up having to apologize to everyone at my table the other day because my PC, who is perfectly legal, not using any playtest material, broke a boss encounter by killing the boss in one round.
* In my groups, it will be the one or two folks who love finding rules loopholes who will make up gunslingers and push them to the limit. Good for the gunslinger playtest; bad for the other players at the table who have had their genre changed and have to deal with exploding rules.
Ummmm. "Brian"s will do that for existing classes, just as much as for playtest classes. You have to either live with the rules lawyers, or make a conscious decision to either ban them entirely, or not sit at tables with them. ::Shrug::
To be honest, tehre is stuff no longer inplaytest that can break the game in the hands of rules lawyers and/or min/maxers. Consider the Point-Blank Master feat from the APG. In general, it isn't bad. In some specific cases, it can break things.
To me, losing any players or worse, GMs, over the addition of this material would be a major problem. At the very least, requiring consent of the others at the table to use the playtest material should have been required. Paizo is putting product before player in this case, and it disappoints.
I don't know about your area, but most of the players around here have multiple PCs, and usually coordinate the party during muster to try and keep the group balanced. B ut, I will admit, convention mustering is always going to be iffy; but it is the price of having conventions with gaming.
Now, off to read and understand three platyest classes...
18 pages, 2 of which are not really much to read, 4 tables, 3 of them half-page but mostly stuff that is classifiable with a glance (variants on the level advancement tables, not heavy reading unless you analyze them more than you should need to); and some significant reprinting of some of the base class material for these variants. Not much to handle, I read more than that in a book at lunchtime.... YMMV.
Also, as a GM and a player, I admit to interest in the classes as possibilities for me to play with, as well, so I will have (have) read them myself, so I won't be totally cold if someone wants to use one at my next game. Indeed, I was just building another PC to play with, and it was a Halfling Rogue. Now, I am going to consider whether I want that PC to remain a Rogue or try out the Ninja variant class.... Or maybe just go back to my primary PC type, the Fighter, but play witht he Gunslinger variant. D'Artagnan! Ho!
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Personally i have less of a problem with adding gunslingers to the campaign than I have with ninjas and samurais.
Alkenstar is after all a part of Golarion and firearms being excluded from PFS seems a result of PFS campaing planing being too consercative.
With that said I think we should all recognize the fact, that Golarion encompasses all fantasy and PFS should too.
- Samurai and ninjas are (as far as I know) native to Casmaron and can even be found in Kaer Maga - as Iridian Fold.
- Gunslingers are natural Alkenstar characters.
- Numeria and the Technique League as well as the Azlanti appear heavily influenced by sci-fi.
Golarion and PFS are big enough for all genres of fantasy. Still I guess 90%+ players are more into classic fantasy and thus we can expect classic fantasy characters to dominate PFS. A few odd balls will not take anything away from our gaming experience, unless that is something one self allows.
[My newest character for a Kingmaker campaign is a Numerian Techno-Magus. Playing that character was a blast, and I am certain that even the GM who was a bit scheptic at first, really liked the idea after we had given it a go]
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Venture-Lieutenant, Canada—Manitoba
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As ever in PFS, the PLAYER must bring the relevant rules material
What GM wants to read something for the first time when a player uses it in combat?
Yes, there are already unbalanced options for PFS from the last round of major releases, which can and do cause problems. I don't see how that is an arguement for adding even more uncertainty. Especially in Pathfinder, with is player-centric rules-wise anyway. *Especially* especially in PFS where there are already many restrictions designed to remove differences in interpretation, with little room for GM's to smooth over any rough spots.
Not every venue has enough GMs. Any GM that hates guns will now hate PFS as soon as the first gunslinger shows up at their table, and that has made my job a lot harder.
(And yes, I know there are guns in Golarion, but in the past they could be avoided if one chose. And there are plenty of not-legal-for-PFS items in Golarion canon.)
For those of us less-than-computer-savy gamer geeks, what is the best way to format this info for printing? Copy and paste into a doc? Just print the highlighted section? Would it be possible to have a "printer friendly" button?
We're working on getting a print friendly version set up but felt it was important to get this page up before that additional feature was ready.
Hyrum.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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When the strain on the art department slows down, we'll be putting together an easily printable pdf of this list which will remain up-to-date. Making a "printer friendly" button is a lot harder, and more work on the web team (who are also swamped). Until then, copy/pasting the table into a word or excel document is probably easiest.
Hyrum and Mark,
Since I think this is going to get lost in the other thread or maybe so unseen, I am copy to post my comments here as well, since most of my post has relevance to this topic as well. :)
Why is there such a barrier around here to accepting an official online update? Because it is in a message board post and not on an official page, the way the new Chapter 13 update was just done. If someone argues that is not official because it is not in the Guide, then they are a fool and will not win. What the PFS needs is an official page like that that is updated monthly with any official rules changes, additions of new material, etc. Why not just modify the new Chapter 13 page to be an official rules update page and stick the rule on credit there and any other major changes that have happened since the last Guide so that people cannot argue that it is just some post on a message board and thus not legal. After all, Magic the Gathering has had all it's offical rules changes and updates and card retirements and bannings listed online for years now and people do not argue that they are not legal if they are not in some official downloadable guide.
If this is not already being considered, then I hope it will be.
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I think the layout if fine. The only think I would like to see added is some sort of indication of what the newest changes are to it, either a date on each item or just a "New" flag on stuff that's less than 2 months old or so. Right now spotting new stuff means scanning line by line looking for changes.
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I think the layout if fine. The only think I would like to see added is some sort of indication of what the newest changes are to it, either a date on each item or just a "New" flag on stuff that's less than 2 months old or so. Right now spotting new stuff means scanning line by line looking for changes.
Perhaps a different colour of text?
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I think the layout if fine. The only think I would like to see added is some sort of indication of what the newest changes are to it, either a date on each item or just a "New" flag on stuff that's less than 2 months old or so. Right now spotting new stuff means scanning line by line looking for changes.Perhaps a different colour of text?
I'm not picky. Any sort of indicator will work.
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I'm not picky. Any sort of indicator will work.I think the layout if fine. The only think I would like to see added is some sort of indication of what the newest changes are to it, either a date on each item or just a "New" flag on stuff that's less than 2 months old or so. Right now spotting new stuff means scanning line by line looking for changes.Perhaps a different colour of text?
How about a Picture of Doug's face with a big mouth open grin and a speech bubble saying This one is new!, next to every new entry. It is the perfect use of a 5 Star GM!
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I think the layout if fine. The only think I would like to see added is some sort of indication of what the newest changes are to it, either a date on each item or just a "New" flag on stuff that's less than 2 months old or so. Right now spotting new stuff means scanning line by line looking for changes.
+1
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How about a Picture of Doug's face with a big mouth open grin and a speech bubble saying This one is new!, next to every new entry. It is the perfect use of a 5 Star GM!I'm not picky. Any sort of indicator will work.I think the layout if fine. The only think I would like to see added is some sort of indication of what the newest changes are to it, either a date on each item or just a "New" flag on stuff that's less than 2 months old or so. Right now spotting new stuff means scanning line by line looking for changes.Perhaps a different colour of text?
Wait, what did the contract say again?
I need to stop being so trusting...
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ok one question. it lists the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting on the link.the description for the pdf on your website reads
"Note: Pathfinder Campaign Setting: World Guide—The Inner Sea replaces this volume as the main Pathfinder campaign setting book. The newer volume has been expanded and updated, and is designed for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game."
but it is not listed on this page except as maybe Pathfinder Player Companion: Inner Sea Primer??? or did i miss it in the deluge of campaign setting's?
color me confused.
The hardcover Inner Sea Guide has not yet come out. It will replace the existing campaign setting book when it does. The Inner Sea Primer is not the replacement book. It is a book for your players to reference. It's not as in depth as the Guide will be.
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The hardcover Inner Sea Guide has not yet come out. It will replace the existing campaign setting book when it does. The Inner Sea Primer is not the replacement book. It is a book for your players to reference. It's not as in depth as the Guide will be.
ok one question. it lists the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting on the link.the description for the pdf on your website reads
"Note: Pathfinder Campaign Setting: World Guide—The Inner Sea replaces this volume as the main Pathfinder campaign setting book. The newer volume has been expanded and updated, and is designed for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game."
but it is not listed on this page except as maybe Pathfinder Player Companion: Inner Sea Primer??? or did i miss it in the deluge of campaign setting's?
color me confused.
thank you I will so use the first campaign setting until inner sea is released. :)
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I have not yet gone through Halflings of Golarion or other recent releases but felt we needed PFS support for the playtest, as it's the largest group of playtesters among our community. When additional resources are added, we will send out an email notifying you of their addition (and I'll post in this thread).
Thanks for answering this, Mark. Was hoping it was legal, but I can let that part of my build go.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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We have updated the Additional Resources list for Pathfinder Society Organized Play. Changes include the following:
You may download either of these new Chronicles from their respective product pages or the Additional Resources page, and may download a pdf version of the updated Additional Resources list from that page as well.
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I'm not sure if it's been said before, but something that would really help with the additions of things too, Mark, is to change the color of what has been most recently updated. Make it red, dark red, blue, green, something...just so we can easily see what are the most updated items on that list.
Something quick and easy to do, and would be a great help to the community.
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I'm not sure if it's been said before, but something that would really help with the additions of things too, Mark, is to change the color of what has been most recently updated. Make it red, dark red, blue, green, something...just so we can easily see what are the most updated items on that list.
Something quick and easy to do, and would be a great help to the community.
Excellent idea!
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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I think breaking down the sections by source would help too.
I.E.
Pathfinder Companion
Adventurer's Armory... legal stuff
Andoran.... legal stuff
etc.
Pathfinder Modules
Cult of the Ebon Destroyer... legal stuff
etc.
Pathfinder Adventure Path
Carrion Crown 1... legal stuff
etc.
This would be especially useful in the printed version.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Additional Resources have been updated to include new material from Humans of Golarion, Academy of Secrets, and We Be Goblins!. Chronicles have been added to both Modules' product pages and to the bottom of the Additional Resources page.
You may view the list of legal materials here, or download a pdf version of the same list from the bottom of that page.