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Bomb (Su): In order to create a
bomb, the alchemist must use a small vial containing
an ounce of liquid catalyst—the alchemist can create
this liquid catalyst from small amounts of chemicals
from an alchemy lab, and these supplies can be readily
refilled in the same manner as a spellcaster’s component
pouch. Most alchemists create a number of catalyst vials
at the start of the day equal to the total number of bombs
they can create in that day—once created, a catalyst vial
remains usable by the alchemist for years.my questions are as it writin in the book. Assouming you have the alchemy lab. what spellcaster’s component cost? and vials cost 1gp (pg 158 core book; vial,ink or potion) Dose alchemist bomb cost gp?
and do they have weight? and were are you puting the the bomb that you can make? (have to put them somewere)
How much do you charge your wizard to fill his spell component pouch? What is the cost of a ball of bat guano and sulfur, or a drop of mercury ?
Also, there is nothing stating that the vial is one that you need to purchase. I like the idea of an alchemist using specially treated acorns for bombs...
All of the components costs are included in the purchase of the alchemists "spell component pouch" in the apg. Cost of replenishment isn't covered just like the other casters don't keep track of spells, and warriors don't keep track of oil for their armor.
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Just like a Wizard has a spell component pouch he needs to cast his spells with material components, an Alchemist needs his alchemist's kit to do his stuff. I figure the reason its 25g is because he needs it for all his stuff, bombs, mutagen, and extracts. See, you don't have to worry about the cost of each vial or oil, the alchemist buys in in bulk. ;)
why do players and GM assouming that becouse you cast spell the component are free or they dont need to track if that true then why did thay added eschew materials to the game?
Eschew Materials is for casters who don't want to be disarmed if not in reach of their spell component pouch or for those who don't even want to look as being able to throw fireballs and stuff.
how much bombs can he do with that?
effectively unlimited. you could rule your players to restock their kits for maybe half the price every now and then, every larger town if traveling.
excessive micro-management usually just doesn't add much fun to the table, so why bother.
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How much do you charge your wizard to fill his spell component pouch? What is the cost of a ball of bat guano and sulfur, or a drop of mercury ?
Also, there is nothing stating that the vial is one that you need to purchase. I like the idea of an alchemist using specially treated acorns for bombs...
idk its not cear about that
there is something called eschew materials if a spellcaster did not pick this feat up YES i will make you keep a list of component but the bombs are SU not SP so eschew materials will not work you don't need eschew materials for SP anyway
Actually the book is clear on this, normal spell components that have no listed price effectively cost zero. As long as you have the pouch, or in the alchemists case, the alchemist's kit, you are considered to have all needed components without a listed price in GP.
You just are going to give yourself and your players a paper-keeping nightmare by trying to keep track of the name and price of all spell components. You start having to worry about stuff like:
1) how much does a spell component pouch hold? How big is a pinch, bit, morsel, lump, etc.. Do you need more than one pouch? Especially since by RAW, it just states:
Spell Component Pouch: A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for those components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn't fit in a pouch.
2) Do you realize just how many components are listed for spells? I went down this path long ago on the Wizards boards and actually took the time to create a complete list of all spell components from the spell compendium (got to love a boring night job). You had better prepare a list with all the pricing so that you can stay consistent with how much you quote! Here is a short list from the Pathfinder core book for all components for spells starting with "a" or "b" hat have no listed cost:
rhubarb leaf
an adder's stomach
powdered peas
an animal hoof
a tiny bell
a piece of very fine silver wire
a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume
a morsel of food the animal likes
pinch of powdered iron or iron filings
a lump of alum soaked in vinegar
a bit of bat fur
burning incense
a few hairs, or a pinch of dung, from a bear
octopus or squid tentacle
a few hairs, or a pinch of dung, from a bull
For this short list, can you tell me how much weight that is so that I know that I have not overburdened my caster?
Now, per raw, you only have to worry about spell components that cost over 1 GP. So we can assume that these all cost less then 1 gp.
Personally I find it easiest to just make sure that the players states that they are going to go and purchase new spell components. Anything without a listed price I count as a total of (caster level * 10 in silver) and that is lasts 1 month of average casting (adjust as you see fit for adventuring). Heck, I have even accepted having a player state that they are keeping an eye out for stuff as they travel (takes 3 minutes a day to keep it full). This still leaves you the option of removing the spell component pouch, or having it run low if the player has not been to acquire more recently, but will keep the game fun and not a bureaucratic nightmare for you and your players.
BTW, not trying to be snarky. At one time I actually thought as you, but after building that list, I was ready to pull hair out and asked myself it is was fun. Since I figured out that keeping track of that is not fun, I thought that I would not subject my players to that, since I wanted to keep them.
why do players and GM assuming that because you cast spell the component are free or they don't need to track if that true then why did they added eschew materials to the game?
Because thats what the rules say.
Material (M): A material component consists of one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Don't bother to keep track of material components with negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magic.html#material
I usually just charge my PCs 25 gold every 3 or 4 months game time for 'various sundries'. This covers oil for weapons, soap, a new camp spoon, new shorts, toilet paper, a weeks rations, spell components, etc.
I always thought refilling spell component pouches was factored into cost of living.
1) Spell Components pg 30 in ultmate equipment I...
That's the one by Mongoose Publishing, meant for 3.0, right? "Supplementary Rulebook III?" Not official, and overall not terribly good.
It has some good ideas, but a great deal of bad material (acidic tar, Rust Orbs, and Darkfire items, to name a few), useless material (items worse in every way than basic PHB supplies but are more expensive for some reason, or had no given mechanical benefits but cost quite a bit), and occasionally bad advice.In short, the common result of the rule's usage is that everyone loses.
So in short, the best use I got out of that book was a few ideas (and I'll admit they were good ones), but very little of the given implementation.
Not only does the table in Ultimate Equipment pose a problem between the Core Rules and itself (some of the materials it lists prices for above 1 GP were clearly intended to be ignored using Eschew Materials, but no longer can be), it poses a problem that can best be described as "dramatic collateral damage." I have a feeling that if you try to use the page-and-a-half long two-column table in that book to keep track of weight and quantity of every spell component making up the 5 GP "belt pouch" they bought, not only are you going to be taking a lot of time, the player you try to hand the fruit of your labors to is going to look at you with a pained expression and say something akin to "Seriously?"
There have been many times where I have lost roughly a quarter of a game session as preparation casters readied spell lists for specific occasions (meaning they couldn't be expected to do so beforehand). It wouldn't be fair to the players to declare they're taking too long and move them forward, that denies them their primary (and some would say only) advantage. But increasing that downtime (and making the player's job harder) for no other reason than to be able to pin down exactly what they have in a "belt pouch" seems wasteful with regards to everyone's enjoyment.
Sometimes it's worth more just to have them spend an arbitrary amount of money, move on to the good bits of the story and call it a win. It's often more satisfying to reconcile tiny details silently in your head than to still be arguing an hour later with 4-7 people all wondering why you stopped the game over a 5 GP article of equipment.
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1) how much does a spell component pouch hold?
Spell Component Pouch
A small, watertight, leather, belt pouch with many small compartments. A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses he needs except those that have a listed cost, divine focuses or focuses that would not fit in a pouch (such as the natural pool that a druid needs to cast scrying).
Spell Component Pouch: 5 gp; ¼ lb.hmm belt pouch can hold. lets go to 3.0e were that say that a pouch can hole o what its says 1/5 cu. ft.
2) Do you realize just how many components are listed for spells? I went down this path long ago on the Wizards boards and actually took the time to create a complete list of all spell components from the spell compendium (got to love a boring night job). You had better prepare a list with all the pricing so that you can stay consistent with how much you quote! Here is a short list from the Pathfinder core book for all components for spells starting with "a" or "b" hat have no listed cost:Spell Components pg 30 in ultmate equipment I
All items listed below have no appreciable weight,though any twenty listed items will have a combined weight of one pound.In addition, the Games Master may like to impose his own limits – a tentacle from a giant octopus, for example, is likely to weigh one pound itself!powder, rhubarb leaf 3cp
an adder's stomach 3gp
powdered peas 1cp
an animal hoof 2cp
a tiny bell 4cp
a piece of very fine silver wire 2sp
a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume free after kill it
a morsel of food the animal likes ? animals will eat anything
pinch of powdered iron or iron filings 2cp
a lump of alum soaked in vinegar 3cp
a bit of bat fur 2cp
burning incense 1gp
a few hairs, or a pinch of dung, from a bear, dung u pick that up if you can find a bear
octopus or squid tentacle (28 gp giant octopus, 32 gp Giant Squid)
a few hairs, or a pinch of dung, from a...
Congratulations! You have made every player in your campaign a martial melee character!
Like seriously? You are one of those guys that needs the book to tell you everything or you take a long walk off a shirt pier. You have essentially made it so that if you buy a spell pouch there is just enough to cast 1 spell with one component. Quit being a douche and let your players play the game for what it is.
And for the alchemist bombs. As far as you know its a drop of liquid nitrate and a drop of something that makes the secondary effect. So for a 24 bomb Alchemist he needs 48 DROPS of liquid. There done.
Congratulations! You have made every player in your campaign a martial melee character!Like seriously? You are one of those guys that needs the book to tell you everything or you take a long walk off a shirt pier. You have essentially made it so that if you buy a spell pouch there is just enough to cast 1 spell with one component. Quit being a douche and let your players play the game for what it is.
And for the alchemist bombs. As far as you know its a drop of liquid nitrate and a drop of something that makes the secondary effect. So for a 24 bomb Alchemist he needs 48 DROPS of liquid. There done.
Thank you. +10
Creative Director
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Tracking specific spell components, be they for spells or be they materials for alchemist elixirs or bombs or anything an alchemist does, is not a part of the game UNLESS that component is worth money.
For everything else, including the components that make up an alchemist's bombs, just assume that those components cost zero. As long as the alchemist has an alchemy lab handy (usually a portable alchemy lab), he won't run out, just as a spellcaster with a spell component pouch never has to worry about running out of spell components. If it makes it more believable, just think of the character's ability to keep his alchemy lab (or spell component pouch) well-stocked for free as a class ability.
That said, if your players are fine with having to track every spell component or alchemical ingredient in order to use their abilities, that's fine. You'll need to build those rules or enforce them yourself, though, since that's not something we wanted to put into the game—it's too fiddly and too time consuming, and furthermore, charging characters money and time to use their class abilities is a dangerous road. I predict fewer players of alchemists and spellcasters in any world where the players are forced to track and buy spell components, frankly.
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Thank you James.
Also, chaoskin, the pricing that you have for some of the spelll components also makes Eschew materials usless:
Eschew MaterialsYou can cast many spells without needing to utilize minor material components.
Benefit: You can cast any spell with a material component costing 1 gp or less without needing that component. The casting of the spell still provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. If the spell requires a material component that costs more than 1 gp, you must have the material component on hand to cast the spell, as normal.
powder, rhubarb leaf 3cp
an adder's stomach 3gp
powdered peas 1cp
an animal hoof 2cp
a tiny bell 4cp
a piece of very fine silver wire 2sp
a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume free after kill it
a morsel of food the animal likes ? animals will eat anything
pinch of powdered iron or iron filings 2cp
a lump of alum soaked in vinegar 3cp
a bit of bat fur 2cp
burning incense 1gp
a few hairs, or a pinch of dung, from a bear, dung u pick that up if you can find a bear
octopus or squid tentacle (28 gp giant octopus, 32 gp Giant Squid)
a few hairs, or a pinch of dung, from a bull, dung u pick that up 2cp
So, in your way, you are actually taking some of the power of eschew materials away. Even casters with eschew materials would need to buy a spell component pouch and pay keep it full in your world.
.. in short because the name of the game is effectively Advanced Dungeons and dragons, not a different ADD.
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NO! what im saying is if you dont take Eschew Materials you have to keep track of your spell component and they have a cost!
make it eazy on you did you take Eschew Materials? if you say "yes i did" then no you dont have to unless its over a 1gp. if you say "no i did" then yes you have to keep track of your spell component. eazy its a yes or no question
But the pricing that you give for basic components (which normally would fall under eschew materials, say an adder's stomach (3gp) for acid arrow) are over 1 GP in price, thus, BY raw, eschew materials would not cover them, since Eschew materials states:
Benefit: You can cast any spell with a material component costing 1 gp or less without needing that component.
All I am saying is that trying to keep track of the cost and number of all components opens a big can of worms and actually changes more than you think. It also, for many players, takes away some of the fun of the game. Now, if you are players are okay with this, than your house rule is okay and have fun (the whole reason to play is after all, to have fun!).
You came into a "Rules Questions" forum. Here you will get the Rules and written (RAW) and Rules as intended (RAI) answers to questions. We have given you these:
1) A spell component pouch automatically has all components needed that do not cost over 1 GP and will fit in it.
2) There is no price for any component that does not have a listed price in any Paizo produced book.
If you want to discuss things about your house rules, than I suggest that you ask over in the correct forum where they are more then willing to discuss ideas on pricing and helping work that house ruling into a fun and balanced game.
At this point, I am backing out of this thread, since it is not really moving forward and appears that it is going to break down into a flame ware/troll fest.
The purpose of Eschew Materials as a feat is as follows:
1) You don't have to worry about having your pouch destroyed / stolen / taken off you when you're arrested. Extremely handy in some unusual situations.
2) As others have pointed out, you don't look like a spellcaster.
Frankly, you're coming across as the worst kind of GM imaginable.
octopus or squid tentacle (28 gp giant octopus, 32 gp Giant Squid)
do you want to know how much octopus and squid I can get at an all you can eat Chinese restaurant for under 8$? Your prices are outrageous.
The best way to handle the spell components pouch is like this: Don't worry about it until you need to get a new adventure going.
DM: You notice you're starting to get a little low on bat guano.
Player: Well, I do what I usually do to go get some more.
DM: Well, that's the local apothecary, but they don't have it in stock.
Player: So you're saying I can't cast fireball anymore?
DM: You got a few more uses left, but the apothecary says something's in the caves down south that killed a couple of magic students that were sent down there to gather the guano...
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ok lests go back to the post i started lests end the danm spell component and keep out of this
ok but i cant see you have 24 bomb rdy to use (at 20lvl+4 int mod) i see the alchemists bombs as alchemist fires (splash weapons) you have to put them somewere the alchemists pic show it all glass and liquid will start to adding upif you create do it have weight?Most alchemists create a number of catalyst vials
at the start of the day equal to the total number of bombs
they can create in that day
Okay, fair question. If you go by the chart in the equipment section of the book, a vial of ink (1 oz) or a potion in a vial has a listed weight of "—" which, at the bottom of the chart shows this:
— No weight, or no weight worth noting.
So, they do not have any weight worth noting. Much like a sewing needle, signet ring, signal whistle, a single sheet of paper or parchment, inkpen, etc..
If you wanted to, you could say that it weighs about 2-3 oz. (lets say 2.5 for this). This would be 1 oz of liquid, + 1.5 oz for the vial.
So, at worst case, an alchemist takes the extra bomb feat every time they can, so they have 40 bombs + int mod (lets say 44 for this). @ 2.5 oz each this gives you 110 oz of weight, or 6 lbs 14 oz. Heck, you would have to have at least 10 bombs to hit the 1/2 lb range (9.6 bombs to be exact).
If you want to worry about it, have fun, but most 20th level alchemists will only it about 1 to 1.5 lbs of bombs at max.
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BTW, if you want to see just how big/small a 1 oz glass vial is.
http://www.sunburstbottle.com/glass-bottles/corked-vials/CCC1