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Neutral Half-Orc Cleric of Gorum
STR 14[5], DEX 13[3], CON 12[2], INT 10, WIS 14+2[5], CHA 14[5]
Chaotic Neutral. Channels Negative energy
Traits: Sacred Conduit (+1 DC on Channel Energy), Deft Dodger (+1 to Ref saves).
Feats: Selective Channel (keeps 2 people other than her safe).
Domains: Destruction, Strength
Favored class: Hit points. Will likely remain hit points until retirement. :)
Skills: Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion)
Equipment: Greatsword, 5 javelins, scale armor.
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Bad idea? Why? Because being a negative engergy channeler? Not at all.
When you introduce your character as a Cleric, others will appreciate you for the healing, but when you tell them you channel negative instead of positive energy, some players will give you a dirty look.
Why? No-one criticises the Fighter or Rogue or Sorcerer at the table for not providing healing. I think a negative energy channeler would make a good front-line fighter, totally in flavour with the Domains you've chosen.
When I heard that Pathfinder Clerics don't gain Heavy Armour Proficiency anymore, I thought rather than spend the feat, maybe this is an opportunity to build a Cleric that wasn't a front-line combatant. Domains provide many varied roles for Clerics, Knowledge Domain for example grants all Knowledge skills a class skills. But to take full advantage of greater access to Knowledge skills, a Cleric should put a few points into INT. So I thought I'd build a Cleric as one might think of a Wizard. My INT, WIS and CHA all had positive bonuses, while my STR, DEX and CON all had negative bonuses. Thus I've played Slip, a negative channeling Halfling Cleric of Norgorber (Domains: Death and Knowledge) through Pathfinder Society to level 9 now.
Although I thought Slip might play like a Wizard, and it might be my inexperience with caster classes showing here, I soon realised he was too fragile, perhaps because while built like a Wizard, he didn't have the blast spells (Fireball etc) that justify the Wizard's stand outside of combat range role. Once I spent a feat on Toughness, that helped keep him on his feet.
On-the-other-hand, I quite like that your character appears to be a capable front-line fighter. As negative channel bursts don't provoke AoOs, you can quite effectively walk into melee combat for a round or two, and then let off your negative burst when your opponents have surrounded you. You're like a Fighter with a choice of one-on-one melee OR area effect, depending on the need. However, don't underestimate Selective Channeling - you might want to see if you can raise the number of protected allies above two - if you're not healing your party, your table is going to be even less happy when you start damaging them! Although it goes against the theme of your Destruction Domain, you might want to consider preparing Cure spells (note: negative energy channelers can't spontaneously cast cure spells) for those emergency situations, and to keep your party on your side.
Note: that while useful, I find that negative energy channeling doesn't keep up with other damage-dealing methods as you gain level.
Cheers,
DarkWhite
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I completely agree with Selective Channeling. 30' radius is bigger than you might think and getting your character in a position to NOT injure a companion is hard. It's even worse when you or your companions are mounted. I play a Negative burster and there are limits to his potential for extreme damage (ie, rolling a 1). Also, be warned that negative damage will have no effect on undead, who are often a major theme in PFS mods. All that being said, there is a use for Negative bursters...in our home campaign, we put our negative burster in a rowboat 30' in front of our big boat to clear a path through sahuagin; kinda like a torpedoe on a spar.
For your build, don't discount dipping into Fighter for the Heavy Armor access and feat, or Cavalier.
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Neutral Half-Orc Cleric of Gorum
You appear to have not spent your +2 racial bonus? Should be in CHA probably for this build. And I would take human over half orc and put the bonus feat into Improved Channel. This is going to give you 1 more channel/day (CHA) and raise the DC to 16 while allowing you to exclude 3 allies.
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Thanks - I was primarily concerned with whether or not an infliction cleric was viable.
The racial bonus is on WIS, it could as easily go on CHA. If it goes on CHA it synergizes nicely with Selective Channel - being able to exclude 3 people from the burst area means that in a 4 person party, all my teammates are covered. Not that a Gorumite would care...
I had guessed that around 5th level or so, channeling becomes less viable than casting spells as buffs. Every two hit dice gives a critter 9 more hit points, plus 2x CON bonuses. Every two hit dice gives me 3.5 extra damage for channeling; those curves separate fast, so I'd been concerned that leveling up would make him useless. (Hence WIS as the recipient of the stat bump).
The first two feats I intend to pick up are Power Attack and Improved Channel, not necessarily in that order. However, Selective Channel is essential to the build.
And yes, I plan on prepping cure spells until I can get the Wand of Coddling Weaknesses. :)
I am effectively giving up spontaneous casting. Inflict spells suck for damage dealing.
1) Low damage to begin with - 1d8+N rather than Nd6 per level.
2) Require a touch attack (short range, can theoretically miss)
3) Target gets a will save for half of the pathetic damage.
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The racial bonus is on WIS, it could as easily go on CHA. If it goes on CHA it synergizes nicely with Selective Channel - being able to exclude 3 people from the burst area means that in a 4 person party, all my teammates are covered. Not that a Gorumite would care...
Ah, I see how you did that now :)
And yes, Inflict spells are a waste.
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Oops, forgot to mention that once a Wand of CLW is available, you can heal away!
This actually brings up a question posed recently. According to the rules on using spell-completion items like wands, you must have the spell on your spell list in order to use the item. If you are an Inflict cleric, then technically, cure spells are not on your spell list. Wouldn't that preclude you from using a CLW wand unless you had UMD?
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Oops, forgot to mention that once a Wand of CLW is available, you can heal away!This actually brings up a question posed recently. According to the rules on using spell-completion items like wands, you must have the spell on your spell list in order to use the item. If you are an Inflict cleric, then technically, cure spells are not on your spell list. Wouldn't that preclude you from using a CLW wand unless you had UMD?
I don't see anything under the Spontaneous section that changes the Cleric's spell list. Both are on the Cleric Spell list, the choice of energy only changes which type of spell you can spontaneous trade for.
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Not that I don't agree, but using the specialist wizard as an example, you choose two opposition schools and cannot cast spells or use spell trigger/completion items of those schools. Essentially, they cease to be on your list of available spells. That is why I made the comparison to cure/inflict. Since you "choose" one, the other ceases to be on you list of available spells. Seems like a reasonable trade off. If your god grants you the ability to heal, s/he wouldn't want to going around doing "negative" healing. But I am unable to locate an official response one way or the other, or any past banter on this topic.
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It is unlikely that the Large Heavy Crossbow question I asked in my first build will get answered, more's the pity.
I've got three builds posted.
High Dex longbow using sniper-ranger (with a 1 level dip into Transmutation Wizard at 2nd level for the Shield spell and a few others.)
High STR trip-specializing polearm fighter
Inflict using melee cleric.
I'm vaguely surprised that the inflict cleric (in this thread) got the fewest critiques. :)
Maybe I should post up the Gnome Ranger-Bard-Mystic Theurge. That's a character that makes the CON 20 Monk look useful! :)
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Maybe I should post up the Gnome Ranger-Bard-Mystic Theurge. That's a character that makes the CON 20 Monk look useful! :)Isn't this character just kept around for "comedic value?" ;-)
Somewhere around 6 years ago, just after the release of 3.5, I was at a convention where the GM posted a "20th level munchkin stomp! Bring your most thoroughly optimized characters, using <insert list of legal volumes>!"
Since I did not have those books at hand, but did have the PHB and DMG, I made a character. Thoroughly optimized. Gnome Ranger-7,Bard-4,Mystic Theurge 9.
I broke the GM's brain.
I was the only one who survived the scenario. Largely because everyone else considered my character a boat anchor, and thus, I was free to stand back and watch while they proceeded with great confidence into certain death.
My primary contribution was using Arcane Strike with Multi-Shot from the back of my riding warg. (This was before they errata'd Multi-Shot as definitively being part of a full round action). Well, that and playing the harmonica for Inspire Courage.
Honestly, every round that I lived was a pure bonus. :)
The GM did buy me dinner for being the sole survivor of the scenario, and for coming up with a kind of optimization he'd never considered before. ("I never thought I'd see someone multi-class and optimize for suck.")
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Not that I don't agree, but using the specialist wizard as an example, you choose two opposition schools and cannot cast spells or use spell trigger/completion items of those schools. Essentially, they cease to be on your list of available spells. That is why I made the comparison to cure/inflict. Since you "choose" one, the other ceases to be on you list of available spells. Seems like a reasonable trade off. If your god grants you the ability to heal, s/he wouldn't want to going around doing "negative" healing. But I am unable to locate an official response one way or the other, or any past banter on this topic.
Actually not quite the best example. Wizards CAN cast from their opposition schools, it just takes double the spell slots. From the PRD:
"A wizard that chooses to specialize in one school of magic must select two other schools as his opposition schools, representing knowledge sacrificed in one area of arcane lore to gain mastery in another. A wizard who prepares spells from his opposition schools must use two spell slots of that level to prepare the spell. For example, a wizard with evocation as an opposition school must expend two of his available 3rd-level spell slots to prepare a fireball. In addition, a specialist takes a –4 penalty on any skill checks made when crafting a magic item that has a spell from one of his opposition schools as a prerequisite. A universalist wizard can prepare spells from any school without restriction."
The Cure Light Wounds spell is STILL on the Cleric's spell list, no matter if they can't spontaneously cast it.
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Actually not quite the best example...Duh! I hate it when I get my editions wrapped around my eye-teeth and cannot see what I am typing. **walks away hoping no one else notices his error**
No worries! I think EVERY GM (even those 4 and 5 stars) get edition-wrapped. I do it at least once per session I GM.
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No worries! I think EVERY GM (even those 4 and 5 stars) get edition-wrapped. I do it at least once per session I GM.Actually not quite the best example...Duh! I hate it when I get my editions wrapped around my eye-teeth and cannot see what I am typing. **walks away hoping no one else notices his error**
The BEST GMs don't let their players know. For instance, I NEVER make mistakes while running a game. After the game? Sure, but never during. ;-)
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I play a Negative Channeling (NC) cleric who focuses in all the other spells a cleric gets. He is 9th level now, I think, and has a Phylactery of Negative Channeling, Extra Channel, and Selective Channel with a 16 CHA. 7d6 negative damage with a DC 20 Will save for half seems to get the attention of the GM after you drop half the hit points off of all the bad guys in one round. Especially when you can do it 8 times per day. I also have Command Undead. Do not underestimate a NC cleric when there are undead around. I have had the opportunity on more than one occasion to completely change the scenario by controlling the undead at the beginning of the scenario and using it to fight our way through to the end. I'm still waiting for a feat or item that allows me to gain HD for controlling undead. You can't control anything with more HD than you have. That's the biggest limit on what you can control. I like my NC cleric. And the people I play with know that when he's around, they better get their wands out, because he does not memorize more than one cure spell. That's what scrolls and wands are for.
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Here's the 'final' form of the Inflict cleric: Neve Pardell
I'm gearing up to play her this Saturday, so if anyone finds a glitch or something in need of fixing, please let me know.
Because the first adventure we're doing is Godsmouth Heresy, which is heavy on undead, I took Command Undead as the bonus human feat. It was on the short list of feats to acquire.
Other feats I mean to get: Toughness, Improved Channel, Power Attack
Toughness is there because, well, she has no in-combat healing that doesn't provoke an AoO, and because her schtick often involves getting to within 30' of things and hurting them.
Improved Channel's utility should be obvious.
Power Attack presumes that given a choice between Bull's Strength and Shatter for my 2nd level Domain spell, I'll take Bull's Strength, which helps counter the "Can't hit the broad side of a barn" problem she has with that pig sticker.
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Here's the 'final' form of the Inflict cleric: Neve Pardell
Based on this thread I created a Cleric of Asmodeus as well. Your channel DC is 1 higher than it should be. So it should be 14 not 15. It's 10 + 1/2 level (0) + Cha Bonus (3) and in your case +1 for Sacred Conduit trait. It's not 1/2 level (min 1) :( otherwise my build would have a DC 17 to resist, but I don't get that till 2nd level. Command Undead uses the same formula.
Otherwise, I obviously like this build ;)
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Based on this thread I created a Cleric of Asmodeus as well. Your channel DC is 1 higher than it should be. So it should be 14 not 15. It's 10 + 1/2 level (0) + Cha Bonus (3) and in your case +1 for Sacred Conduit trait. It's not 1/2 level (min 1) :( otherwise my build would have a DC 17 to resist, but I don't get that till 2nd level. Command Undead uses the same formula.
A quick check of the PRD shows you're correct. I'll have to put a change fix in for Erian's spreadsheet.
Otherwise, I obviously like this build ;)
For Gorum, what appeals is the Greatsword proficiency, which gives a nice, high damage weapon for when you're surrounded by enemies and building your honor guard.
Asmodeus uses the mace for his weapon, yes?
What domains did you take?
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Asmodeus uses the mace for his weapon, yes?
What domains did you take?
Yup mace. I'm still thinking over the build a little and might need to rearrange some stuff to boost my AC. I took Fire and Deception. I love Firebolt, and getting Fireball goes along nicely with my negative channel area of effect. Burning Hands after a few levels is pretty sweet as well. I'm really curious of Sudden Shift works out as cool as I'm hoping, allowing me to get deeper into the field for my negative channels (hence the need to probably boost my AC).
Sudden Shift (Sp): In the blink of an eye, you can appear somwhere else. As an immediate action, after you are missed by a melee attack, you can teleport up to 10 feet to a space that you can see. This space must be inside the reach of the creature that attacked you.
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Asmodeus uses the mace for his weapon, yes?
What domains did you take?
Yup mace. I'm still thinking over the build a little and might need to rearrange some stuff to boost my AC. I took Fire and Deception. I love Firebolt, and getting Fireball goes along nicely with my negative channel area of effect. Burning Hands after a few levels is pretty sweet as well. I'm really curious of Sudden Shift works out as cool as I'm hoping, allowing me to get deeper into the field for my negative channels (hence the need to probably boost my AC).
Sudden Shift (Sp): In the blink of an eye, you can appear somwhere else. As an immediate action, after you are missed by a melee attack, you can teleport up to 10 feet to a space that you can see. This space must be inside the reach of the creature that attacked you.
So you're going more mobility-blaster then, where I'm going "wade in, soften everything up, then use the sharp metal beatything to finish them off."
Interesting. :)
One nice benefit is that fireball and negative channeling use different saving throw types.
I am a big fan of fire based spells for Sorcerers, who seemingly never run out of them. With only one fireball and one burning hands spell per day...you're building a cleric to be awesomesauce for one encounter. Is he meant to be an antagonist NPC, or someone you plan on playing in PFS?
Check out Karthan Zhosk for a fire based Sorcerer who I'm currently playing in PBP. (It was rolled stats and I rolled very very well, as you can see. Karthan is blessed with humility, for were he not, he would be surrounded by people who are suicidal in despair at realizing he exists, and that they have no hope of being his equal. *grin*)
For a PFS legal stat array, he'd have STR 10, DEX 14, CON 13, INT 14, WIS 10, CHA 15+2=17, and would have the same traits. 4 skill points per level means he focuses less deeply on Stealth and Perception.
If there's anything better than throwing a 7d6+10 fireball at 6th level, it's throwing that fireball from 120 feet away in pitch darkness against an unsuspecting encampment. Ideally after you've cast darkness on yourself to conceal your position.
At hypothetical 12th level play, doing an empowered intensified fireball, he's doing 19.5d6+19 damage.
I play a Negative Channeling (NC) cleric who focuses in all the other spells a cleric gets. He is 9th level now, I think, and has a Phylactery of Negative Channeling, Extra Channel, and Selective Channel with a 16 CHA.
Side note: I'm always surprised to see PCs with a Phylactery of Channeling, since it takes up the same slot as a Headband of Wisdom. That's a rough choice to have to make...
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My primary Cleric of Sarenrae is taking a little break after her very personal meeting with Sarenrae...:-)
I was thinking about taking a few levels of summoner with her, but Eidolons can't get wings until the summoner is 5th level? Boo. I was thinking some kind of mini-Sarenrae like Eidolon would be sweet. The summon monster as a standard (in minutes!) would be pretty hot with her already Augmented Summoning.
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I play a Negative Channeling (NC) cleric who focuses in all the other spells a cleric gets. He is 9th level now, I think, and has a Phylactery of Negative Channeling, Extra Channel, and Selective Channel with a 16 CHA.Side note: I'm always surprised to see PCs with a Phylactery of Channeling, since it takes up the same slot as a Headband of Wisdom. That's a rough choice to have to make...
Since my character focuses so much on the channel portion of the class, I had to do it. It was a tough choice. The extra 2d6 damage is huge when you step into a fight. I just wish it also increased the HD of undead you could command. Like 2HD higher than normal. A person could get both and depending on whether or not you are going to be fighting undead you can change which one you are using.
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I got to play Neve for 8 hours today, in Godsmouth Heresy.
A pity there weren't more undead to control, but the one I did managed to enslave turned out to be very very helpful.
Notes:
Spells are really tertiary to this build after channeling and melee damage. I will probably be prioritizing a headband of Charisma over one of Wisdom, until I can get one that buffs both.
The GM made some amazing Will saves for half damage against negative channeling.
We had a TPK and re-set (party is all 1st level), but what we learned on the TPK meant that when I got a zombie to send in ahead, we could do so quite effectively.
I am SO buying a Wand of True Strike. (I'm actually tempted to take a 2 level dip into Sorcerer just to get more 0 level spells and, well, 4 more castings of True Strike or Feather Fall per day.)
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You don't want 2 levels of sorcerer.
Yep.
Get a wand of true strike, get a pearl of power or five, get the ioun stone so that you can store a 1st level spell.
Wand of True Strike is second on the list after Wand of Cure Light Wounds.
Likely you will use your spells for utility and the like. Perhaps a shield of faith before you move into position, or a bless for the party before you do so, etc.
Pretty much the only spells I prepared were:
True Strike (Domain - Destruction)
Bless
Shield of Faith (cast on another party member)
Cure Light Wounds
I still suggest that you try to become heavily armored so as to have a decent AC.
I am looking at the Holy Vindicator prestige class for a one level dip for just that reason.
Which domains (and subdomains) did you wind up going with?
Strength and Destruction.
I was mildly tempted by Strength (Ferocity) and Destruction, just because they both offer self buffs for damage, and nothing seems to prevent someone from using both buffs at the same time. But this is for PFS, and I don't want to have to settle a rules argument every time I show the character to a new GM.
The Strength buff also lets me buff the damage of an ally for a full round, rather than a single attack.
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We finished Godsmouth and I'm playing Neve now in Throaty Mermaid.
Her upgraded kit is shown on her Profile Page
I am SO buying a Wand of True Strike.
True Strike is one of your domain spells of course, but it isn't on the cleric list so you would not be able to use a wand. Besides, even if you could, you could only use it for your Javelin. Unless you wanted to sheath your Greatsword, withdraw a wand, use the wand, sheath the wand, withdraw your Greatsword, and then use it.
I am SO buying a Wand of True Strike.True Strike is one of your domain spells of course, but it isn't on the cleric list so you would not be able to use a wand.
Surely, it only has to be on the list of spells you can legitimately cast, so includes domain spells. That would be my take (RAI I suppose). I'd houserule this if it's not.
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I am SO buying a Wand of True Strike.True Strike is one of your domain spells of course, but it isn't on the cleric list so you would not be able to use a wand.
SRD wrote:
Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can't actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin. The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
As it's a domain spell, and specifically a domain spell Neve can cast, Neve is a member of a class that can cast the corresponding spell.
Furthermore, PFS has stated that all wands and scrolls are priced as though they were crafted by Wizards or Clerics, even if the spell does not exist on the Wizard or Cleric list, just to avoid insanity on pricing of spells.
Besides, even if you could, you could only use it for your Javelin. Unless you wanted to sheath your Greatsword, withdraw a wand, use the wand, sheath the wand, withdraw your Greatsword, and then use it.
This is not the case
Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast has a longer casting time than 1 action, however, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for non-humanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.
So, I would spend a standard action using a charge from the wand and hold the two handed sword in the other hand. On the next round, I can sheathe the wand for free as a move action (now that my BAB is +1...) and step in and attack with the sword.
So, no, I cannot use the wand and attack with the sword on the same action. But I couldn't do that casting the spell, either.
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Furthermore, PFS has stated that all wands and scrolls are priced as though they were crafted by Wizards or Clerics, even if the spell does not exist on the Wizard or Cleric list, just to avoid insanity on pricing of spells.
That is almost right, All Potions, Scrolls and Wands are made by wizards, clerics, or druids unless they are not on the wizard, cleric, or druid spell list, then you use the spell list of the class in question.
I am Unsure of this, But I think if a Spell shares a list of wizard, Cleric or Druid that cost would be which ever is higher, but that I am unsure of.
All potions, scrolls, wands, and other consumables are made by wizards, clerics, or druids in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. The only exceptions are spells that are not on the wizard, cleric, or druid spell list. For example, a scroll of lesser restoration must be purchased as a 2nd-level scroll off the cleric spell list and may not be purchased as a 1st-level scroll off the paladin spell list.
Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell.As it's a domain spell, and specifically a domain spell Neve can cast, Neve is a member of a class that can cast the corresponding spell.
Under that logic, ANY cleric can use wands of True Strike or Entangle because there is always a Cleric out there that has the appropriate domains.
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Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell.As it's a domain spell, and specifically a domain spell Neve can cast, Neve is a member of a class that can cast the corresponding spell.
Under that logic, ANY cleric can use wands of True Strike or Entangle because there is always a Cleric out there that has the appropriate domains.
No, only if the cleric has the spell on their domain list can they use the wand. Not all clerics can use the same set of wands...
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No, only if the cleric has the spell on their domain list can they use the wand. Not all clerics can use the same set of wands...
I'll see if I can dig up a reference, but for some reason I'm thinking that domain spells don't count, they aren't on your spell list per se. I haz a sad because fireball is one of my domain spells :)
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No, only if the cleric has the spell on their domain list can they use the wand. Not all clerics can use the same set of wands...I'll see if I can dig up a reference, but for some reason I'm thinking that domain spells don't count, they aren't on your spell list per se. I haz a sad because fireball is one of my domain spells :)
They are as much on your spell list as bloodline spells are to a sorcerer. Could you imagine telling a fey bloodline sorcerer they couldn't use a wand of entangle? Certainly an infernal bloodline sorcerer couldn't use such a wand. It boils down to common sense, which unfortunately either isn't so common or is commonly ignored for the sake of parsing a few lines of text. If your character can actually cast a spell, or will be able to cast that spell at some point in their career, then they have the special knowledge required to activate spell trigger items with that spell.
Adastra/Kyle, you are thinking 3.5 where spell trigger was ok for "anyone with a spell on his or her spell list". PF now gears it for class. I can only assume the change is intentional.