Although I believe this would likely be deemed an improvised weapon, most simple weapons are pretty basic weapons that most people have regular access to. Since most kids grow up throwing rocks at targets (and the fantasy equivalent of pop cans), I sort of wonder if they should be deemed simple ranged weapons?
Does any know if this subject has ever been covered off in a Pathfinder (or even 3.5) sourcebook?
In games I've run, I've allowed characters to throw rocks as a simple weapon that deal 1 point of damage and have a 20' range increment.
Although I believe this would likely be deemed an improvised weapon, most simple weapons are pretty basic weapons that most people have regular access to. Since most kids grow up throwing rocks at targets (and the fantasy equivalent of pop cans), I sort of wonder if they should be deemed simple ranged weapons?
Does any know if this subject has ever been covered off in a Pathfinder (or even 3.5) sourcebook?
Rocks are not listed as weapons except for giants so for anyone else they should be improvised. I don't think I would apply the penalty in a game though. I would most likely just say the damage is 1d2.
For a melee basher, I would always say improvised. For a thrown weapon, allow a character to make a Survival roll to find viable stones for throwing.
GNOME
Depends,
I'd personally rule thusly...
A) Rock picked up in combat : Improvised (you're grabbing a random rock off the ground)
B) Rock picked up out of combat : Simple weapon, no penalty.
The reason for the difference is, as anyone who's tossed rocks or skipped stones on water knows, it's all about the shape, size, and weight of the stone. Out of combat you can take some time to pick up a handful of good stones. In combat, you're grabbing at random. Note i'm talking about how they were procured, not when they are used. So the out of combat picked up rocks can be used as simple weapons in combat.
Rocks make great sling stones
Well, you can get blood from a stone ;) YOu just have to throw it hard enough! :D
GNOME
Depends,
I'd personally rule thusly...
A) Rock picked up in combat : Improvised (you're grabbing a random rock off the ground)
B) Rock picked up out of combat : Simple weapon, no penalty.The reason for the difference is, as anyone who's tossed rocks or skipped stones on water knows, it's all about the shape, size, and weight of the stone. Out of combat you can take some time to pick up a handful of good stones. In combat, you're grabbing at random. Note i'm talking about how they were procured, not when they are used. So the out of combat picked up rocks can be used as simple weapons in combat.
A very good rule!
What originally got me thinking about this, was the Oracle's, Rock Throwing ability (Stone mystery -- APG page 52), which also indicates that a medium rock does 2d4 damage for a "hurled" rock. I was uncertain whether this sets a precedence for a rock as a weapon, or simply grants this damage to a thrown rock, as part of this ability.
Since it mentions a "hurled" rock, this almost infers to me that it is being thrown over-handed with two hands. (It neglects to mention this -- but since it adds a 1.5 x Str damage bonus, I'd say it definately requires 2 hands).
Also, since it doesn't mention anything about the ability negating any improvised weapon penalties, it sort of made me think that maybe a rock is a simple weapon. (Or, they just never thought about that aspect). In the very least, I believe the ability intended to give "rock throwing" proficiency to the character.
I wanted to add this as a weapon option to my character creator. I am guessing that based on that damage, the rock would probably weigh about 15 pounds?
Of course, in my original post my reference to a "rock" would not be fitting to this above information. So I guess a "stone" would be a a small one-handed ranged weapon, where-as a "rock" would be a large two-handed weapon.
*gets a headache thinking about all the different rock sizes and their names*
Rocks make great sling stones
As long as you apply a -1 to hit and shrink the damage down one size step.
The key to an improvised weapon is that it isn't designed to be a weapon. That's why a steak knife isn't the same thing as a dagger. While rocks could be selected for their weight/qualities, they're still not designed to be weapons. Even the bullets in a sling aren't designed to be thrown. The same issue holds true with arrows; they're improvised weapons if you're not using a bow. Thus, rocks are always improvised weapons unless you have some special ability that makes them regular weapons (like the rock throwing extraordinary ability).
That said, there are whole feat chains in Pathfinder that deal with improvised weapons. Monk of the Empty Hand is a good possible option for a rock throwing PC.
Depends,
I'd personally rule thusly...
A) Rock picked up in combat : Improvised (you're grabbing a random rock off the ground)
B) Rock picked up out of combat : Simple weapon, no penalty.The reason for the difference is, as anyone who's tossed rocks or skipped stones on water knows, it's all about the shape, size, and weight of the stone. Out of combat you can take some time to pick up a handful of good stones. In combat, you're grabbing at random. Note i'm talking about how they were procured, not when they are used. So the out of combat picked up rocks can be used as simple weapons in combat.
Great. I will copy this.