Voluntary Reject Bin (Archetype Edition)

[Mikael Sebag]

Out of curiosity, do you guys anticipate there will be one?

[Azmahel]

I think it is more likely that there will be an "almost also ran" or "if I made Top 32 my submission would be ..." thread.
Contestants posting their rejects may come off as trying to get some extra chances in the contest (gaining votes from the people who love your rejects)

[Lachlan Rocksoul]

Azmahel wrote:

I think it is more likely that there will be an "almost also ran" or "if I made Top 32 my submission would be ..." thread.

Contestants posting their rejects may come off as trying to get some extra chances in the contest (gaining votes from the people who love your rejects)

Yeah, if I was a top 32, I'd be careful what I posted during the other rounds. If someone takes something you posted wrong, it could affect your voting negatively. You'd hope that people would vote based on the merit of your entry, but these are human beings we are talking about, with emotions.

Last thing you want is someone looking at an entry you "almost" entered and going. "Sorry, Lachlan. Your wizard archtype in the reject thread was much better than this."

[George Cunningham]

I'd agree with Azmahel, although i think it'd be a bit rude to post "if I made Top 32 my submission would be ..." archetypes before the superstars submitted theirs - what if one of their concepts is similar to yours.

Let the superstars get in first.

[Azmahel]

Hymenopterix wrote:

I'd agree with Azmahel, although i think it'd be a bit rude to post "if I made Top 32 my submission would be ..." archetypes before the superstars submitted theirs - what if one of their concepts is similar to yours.

Let the superstars get in first.

Oh Yeah, last year we didn't post any non-entries before the deadline of the given round. One could even extend that to after the voting has finished, but i think that would considerably lower participation in the thread.

[Mikael Sebag]

Hymenopterix wrote:

Let the superstars get in first.

Oh yeah, definitely, without question.

[Ask A RPGSupersuccubus]

*gentle nudge*

[Ask A RPGSupersuccubus]

(Cryptic Teaser) Calibration post 1:

The APG wrote:

Scout

(Revised disclaimer here)

Question 1:
Depends how talkative she is. Probably a good idea to watch your own pockets though and maybe the hosts' tableware.

Question 2:
Ah, now yes, this person should be quite good at this. Not likely to slay any dragons along the way to do it though...

Question 3:
Good question. Hmm, this one may need revising/recalibrating.

Other comments?
So, you use this sort of person when you need something sneaky and furtive and done - probably solo - out in the wilds.

Rating:
level 3?

Note to self:
Format needs clearly revising. Most of the weight of my reviews in this round is going to fall on the opening three questions by the look of it.

[Cody Coffelt]

Ask A RPGSupersuccubus wrote:

*gentle nudge*

I still think it would be best to wait and see some of these until after the Top 16 are announced.

[Ask A RPGSupersuccubus]

Cody Coffelt wrote:

Ask A RPGSupersuccubus wrote:

*gentle nudge*

I still think it would be best to wait and see some of these until after the Top 16 are announced.

<grumbles>

That's easy for you to say, but I have to calibrate my review format against something in the interests of doing an effective job when it comes to the top 32...
If you have a couple of knights about to knock seven bells out of one another in a fight to the death over the hand of a fair lady, they take some swings at straw men and wave their arms around a lot first to get loose, check the balance of their weapons, make sure they're comfortable in their armour, and test that some furtive type hasn't sabotaged their favourite sword with a weakening spell...
Oh well. A further APG calibration post coming up presently...

[Ask A RPGSupersuccubus]

(Cryptic Teaser) Calibration post 2:

APG wrote:

Monk of the Empty Hand

(revised disclaimer here)

Question 1:
No. Firstly he's a monk. Secondly, there's no telling what he might do with a breadstick. Well not unless he was employed as a bodyguard...

Question 2:
Well, he'd probably get the errand done, but the trouble is he might use them on the way back to beat some poor bandit to death with, which means the errand could be considered to have failed in most cases.

(Revised) Question 3:
Well, he's definitely better at pummelling people senseless than the conventional monk, and given some of the things that he's not bothering with to focus on his pummelling technique, he actually might make better company than most monks.

Other Comments?
Appropriate anecdote here.

Rating:
Level 4.

Note to self:
Revised Question 3 works much better (at least in this case).

[Thomas LeBlanc]

I just want to see the rejects from the 32 and alternates.

My questions:
1. Is it balanced?
2. RPability?
3. Combatiness?
4. Would I play it?

[Ask A RPGSupersuccubus]

<flexes fingers meaningfully>
(Cryptic Teaser) Calibration Post 3:

APG wrote:

Drunken Master

(revised disclaimer here)

Question 1:
Good grief. This is either a very bad idea or a very good one, depending on how he takes to drink. Unfortunately I can just imagine him setting fire to the ceiling whilst trying to show off some clever trick...

Question 2:
No. Just forget it. Incredibly bad idea. He's going to be too inebriated and going to do something daft like bring back a bunch of blushing virgins call 'Rose' instead of what you sent him out to do.

Question 3:
Possibly.

Other comments?
Assuming part-payment in decent vintage alcohol is acceptable to him, it might actually be considerably cheaper to retain one of these monks than it would be to do so with an equivalent of more conventional methods... Hence you can get more service for you coin, so to speak.

Rating:
Level 4.

Note to self:
Ostensibly 'random' method of selection threw up (apt word perhaps in the latter case) two monk variants. Hope this is not an omen of Things To Come.
Calibration now complete.

[Steven Helt]

I am down for the also-ran archetype thread, and at least the stat block thread. I think it gives some of us hopefuls a chance to prepare for maybe one day advancing (grr!), and also allows us to pay a little respect to still-alive contestants when the twists require us to use their previous entries. There were a couple of lairs of round 2-3 villains a year or two ago, and it was a great way to enjoy a villain offered by someone that advanced, even if the also-ran didn't.

When it goes up, I am in. Though I won't post until after I've given the contestants their due and voted.

[Erik Freund]

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:

I just want to see the rejects from the 32 and alternates.

I think that would be against the rules, or at least in bad taste. Believe me, I'd love to share the other idea I came up with, as I was quite torn as to which one to submit. Alas, it shall not see the light of day. Maybe after the contest?

[Cody Coffelt]

Erik Freund wrote:

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:

I just want to see the rejects from the 32 and alternates.

I think that would be against the rules, or at least in bad taste. Believe me, I'd love to share the other idea I came up with, as I was quite torn as to which one to submit. Alas, it shall not see the light of day. Maybe after the contest?

I don't think it would hurt to show some of our sideline archtypes after this round. Everyone is is going to focus on villains at that point! I know if I'm in the Top 16, I will be busting my poor Mac Mini for three days.

[Erik Freund]

If anyone's curious, I'll share my alternate entry. I obviously chose to submit the Moon Shaman instead, and this one lacks a little polish, but I'm still proud of what I came up with for this guy.

Clarion (Bard)
Not all bards are wandering minstrels, but instead lead lives devoted to their church, and take up arms against evil. The clarion is such a bard: a veritable trumpet archon in mortal form.

Code of Conduct: Unlike other bards, a clarion must be lawful good. He must obey the same code of conduct as a paladin, and suffers the same drawbacks for violating it.

Inspired by the Heavens: Unlike other bards, a clarion's spells are considered divine, not arcane. They otherwise function normally.

Call from Death (Su): By blowing his trumpet, a clarion can call a soul back from the death’s door.
At 2nd level, he can substitute his ranks in Perform(Wind) when performing a Heal check made to stabilize a dying creature.
At 6th level, as above, and can perform the check at a range of 30 ft.
At 10th level, as above, and can roll once and have the result effect a number of targets up to his Charisma modifier.
At 14th level, as above, and if done within one round that a creature died due to hit-point loss, a successful DC 40 check by the clarion will stabilize that creature at their negative Constitution score plus one.
At 18th level, a clarion can cast raise dead once per day.
This ability replaces versatile performance.

Enchanted Trumpet (Su): A clarion can enchant his trumpet, using the normal rules and costs for enchanting a magic weapon. (Wielding an enchanted trumpet counts as an improved weapon.)
Whenever a clarion casts a spell with the sonic descriptor, he may replace the verbal component of the spell with a retort from his trumpet; doing increases his effective caster level by 1 for every point of base enhancement on the trumpet. The spell is affected by other weapon abilities as well:
- axiomatic: the spell deals damage as if empowered vs outsiders with the chaotic subtype
- bane: if versus the appropriate foe, that creature receives a -4 morale penalty to the saving throw (if any)
- dancing: the spell goes off again next round on the clarion's initiative, using the same parameters as the first casting
- ghost touch: the spell extends into the ethereal plane
- holy: the spell does damage as if empowered vs undead and outsiders with the evil subtype
- merciful: the spell deals nonlethal damage
This ability replaces the Fascinate, Suggestion and Mass Suggestion abilities.

Transform Trumpet (Su): Starting at 11th level, a clarion may transform his trumpet into a shortsword, longsword, greatsword, or trumpet as a move action, any number of times per day. The trumpet retains magical enhancements, and a clarion is proficient with it, regardless of form.
This ability replaces lore master.

[Azmahel]

I really don't know if this is a good idea.
It might come off as a cheesy way to garner extra votes.

[Cody Coffelt]

Azmahel wrote:

I really don't know if this is a good idea.

It might come off as a cheesy way to garner extra votes.

Think so? Hrmm...polls are closed and we don't know who is in the Top 16 yet. If you look, several of the Top 32 shared some of their ideas for alternate items as well. Remember my scabbard of the faithful servant?

[Azmahel]

Aw, well, that was kind of a different setting. I'm not rallying against this, simply not sure if it is a good idea.

[Cody Coffelt]

Yeah, suppose I'll pull off mine, just to be safe. Everybody can wonder what it was for a little longer ;)

[John Spalding]

I got the ok a couple days back to post this after voting closed:

Here is my "also ran":

Energy Avatar (Druid)
While many druids are empowered by nature red in tooth and claw, energy avatars commune with the primal energies pulsing through all living things.
Nature Bond (Ex): If an energy avatar selects an animal companion, it is infused with his master's elemental prowess.
At 1st level, the animal companion's attacks deal an additional one fire damage. At 4th level, the bonus fire damage increases to 1d6. For the purpose of the nature's bond class feature, the energy avatar's effective druid level is equal to his energy avatar level – 1.
At 7th level, the energy avatar's animal companion becomes immune to bleed, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning. The energy avatar's effective druid level is equal to his energy avatar level – 2.
If choosing a domain, the energy avatar must choose from the Air, Earth, Fire, and Water domains.
Primal Blade (Su): At 4th level, the energy avatar gains the ability to case summon a blade of energy. This ability functions as flame blade except as noted. The effect lasts one hour per energy avatar level. It deals 1d8+caster level (maximum +10) fire damage . The primal blade is not affected by spell resistance. An energy avatar may have only one primal blade at a time.
An energy avatar can use this ability an additional time per day at 6th level and every two levels thereafter, for a total of eight times at 18th level. At 20th level, a energy avatar can use primal blade at will.
At 10th level the energy avatar may activate primal blade as a move action. At 12th level, the energy avatar may activate primal blade as a swift action.
This ability replaces wildshape.
Searing Swiftness (Su): At 6th level, an energy avatar may unleash a flurry of fiery attacks. The energy avatar can attack with his primal blade one additional time per round. All of the energy avatar's attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using searing swiftness.
Elemental Adaptation (Su): At 8th level, the energy avatar may call upon other sources of energy. When he activates his primal blade ability, he may choose for it to deal cold or electricity damage instead of fire damage. If the energy avatar selected an animal companion, the animal companion's bonus fire damage changes to the same type of damage as the energy avatar's primal blade.
Pure Energy (Su): At 13th level the energy avatar may choose to have his primal blade deal half the damage as fire, cold or electricity damage, and the other half as pure divine power which is not subject to being reduced by resistance to fire, cold, or electricity.
This ability replaces a thousand faces.

[Mikko Kallio]

As far as I know, nothing in the contest rules says you cannot post your rejected entries, but of course, individual voters may choose not to vote for you if they think it's "a cheesy way to garner extra votes", as Azmahel put it. Personally, I want to see your rejected archetypes, and I won't let them affect my round 3 votes one way or another.

[Mikko Kallio]

Here's one of my rejects, 448 words.

Channeler (Sorcerer)

Spoiler:

Channeler (Sorcerer)

A channeler acts as a conduit for the raw energies of the universe, shaping and weaving them into her spells.

Channeling (Su): As a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, a channeler can draw energy from the ground, air, sun, and other parts of the physical world, magically charging herself. The stored energy visually manifests itself as a fiery glow in the channeler’s eyes, wind in her hair, or a similar effect. The channeler may expend the charge as a swift action to activate a conduit power that affects the next spell she casts on that round. The charge takes no action to maintain, but if the channeler does not expend it within one minute, it dissipates harmlessly.

Conduit Powers (Su): At 1st, 3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th and 19th level, a channeler gains a new conduit power.

Drain: When using a wand to cast a spell on her spells known list, the channeler may use her own CL to determine the effects of the spell. The channeler must be at least 11th level before selecting this power.
Erode: The channeler receives a +2 bonus on CL checks to overcome spell resistance with the spell. If this power is selected a second time, the bonus increases to +4.
Flood: When using a wand to cast a spell, the channeler may spend a spell slot of the same level instead of expending a charge. The spell must be on the sorcerer/wizard spell list but it does not have to be on her spells known list. The channeler must be at least 11th level before selecting this power.
Flow Through: The spell ignores any miss chances resulting from concealment.
Funnel: The save DC of the spell increases by 1. The channeler must have Spell Focus in the school of magic to which the spell belongs. This power can be selected up to three times. The increases in DC stack with each other.
High Energy Channeling: Any energy damage the spell deals is converted to sonic damage. The channeler must be at least 15th level before selecting this power.
Raw Channeling: Any energy damage the spell deals is converted to force damage. The channeler must be at least 19th level before selecting this power.
Surge: The channeler selects a spell she knows. Each time she uses this power with that spell, the CL increases by 1.

Bonus Feats: At 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th level, a channeler may select Spell Focus or a metamagic feat as a bonus feat. She must meet all prerequisites for the bonus feat.

Double Channeling (Su): At 20th level, a channeler may activate two conduit powers at the same time.

These abilities replace bloodline.

[Azmahel]

Serpent wrote:

As far as I know, nothing in the contest rules says you cannot post your rejected entries, but of course, individual voters may choose not to vote for you if they think it's "a cheesy way to garner extra votes", as Azmahel put it. Personally, I want to see your rejected archetypes, and I won't let them affect my round 3 votes one way or another.

I won't ding anyone either, but I think that there are people who would. (Or seeing a not well polished entry here decide not to vote)

But enough worrying. show me what you've got :)

[Cody Coffelt]

Azmahel wrote:

Serpent wrote:

As far as I know, nothing in the contest rules says you cannot post your rejected entries, but of course, individual voters may choose not to vote for you if they think it's "a cheesy way to garner extra votes", as Azmahel put it. Personally, I want to see your rejected archetypes, and I won't let them affect my round 3 votes one way or another.

I won't ding anyone either, but I think that there are people who would. (Or seeing a not well polished entry here decide not to vote)

But enough worrying. show me what you've got :)

Very well, you have coerced me. This is rather unpolished and not beaten with the grammar hammer, but the mechanics and gist of it are in place.

Mutagenist (Alchemist Archtype):

Mutagenist (Alchemist)
Many alchemists are attracted to the power of bombs, but there are some who delve deeper into the secrets of the mutagen. Mutagenists have turned their own bodies into bizarre experiments bordering on the monstrous. A mutagenist has the following class features.

Genetic Evolutions: At 1st level, a mutagenist discovers that his body can be altered to further react with the agents of a mutagen. The mutagenist has created a chemical cocktail that unlocks genetic evolutions which grant him a pool of evolution points. These points are selected the first time the mutagenist applies the cocktail to his body and persist until gaining a new level. When a mutagenist gains a new level he may create a new chemical cocktail to change how the points from the evolution pool are spent. Creating and applying a chemical cocktail requires access to an alchemist’s lab and two hours of preparation. The initial change is unnoticeable and should anyone else drink the cocktail they will be unaffected.

Whenever a mutagenist imbibes a mutagen his genetic evolutions are activated and alter his body accordingly. Once the mutagen expires the evolutions become dormant. At 1st level the mutagenist has two evolution points and may select evolutions costing 1-point from the list of evolutions starting on page 60 of the Advanced Player’s Guide. All references to eidolon or summon should be considered referring to the mutagenist. The eidolon’s limit on maximum attacks apply to the alchemist as well. This pool increases by two points every two alchemist levels thereafter. This ability replaces the alchemist’s bomb class feature.

Monstrous Aspect: A mutagenist begins to notice side affects from their genetic tinkering early on and gains the Aspect of the Beast feat as a bonus feat at 1st level. This ability replaces throw anything.

Genetic Research: At 4th level a mutagenist begins to fine tune the mixtures of his chemical cocktails. The secrets of his body have started to unfold before him and he can now select evolutions from the 2-point evolution list. At 8th level they can access 3-point evolutions, and at 12th level the mutagenist may finally select 4-point evolutions. This ability replaces poison resistance +2, +4, +6, and poison immunity.

Mutagen Sensitivity: Starting at 6th level a mutagenist’s body has become so sensitive to the volatile chemicals of the mutagen he does not need to consume the full dose. Once half of the mutagen has been imbibed the transformation takes place, leaving the remainder for another use. Used in this manner the duration of the mutagen is cut in half. This ability replaces swift poisoning.

[Dal Selpher]

Cody Coffelt wrote:

sweet mutagen-focused archetype stuffs

Were I to play this archetype (something I would love to do after seeing it) I would do everything in my power to bend those evolution points into turning my character into a ninja turtle.

[Azmahel]

Cody Coffelt wrote:

Azmahel wrote:

Serpent wrote:

As far as I know, nothing in the contest rules says you cannot post your rejected entries, but of course, individual voters may choose not to vote for you if they think it's "a cheesy way to garner extra votes", as Azmahel put it. Personally, I want to see your rejected archetypes, and I won't let them affect my round 3 votes one way or another.

I won't ding anyone either, but I think that there are people who would. (Or seeing a not well polished entry here decide not to vote)

But enough worrying. show me what you've got :)

Very well, you have coerced me. This is rather unpolished and not beaten with the grammar hammer, but the mechanics and gist of it are in place.

** spoiler omitted **...

Nice. I too pondered how evolution points can be harnessed by other classes (making them really worth all the space they take up). And mutagens are really a perfect fit. So perfect in fact that i would be surprised if there wasn't something like this in Ultimate Magic or Combat.

[James Martin]

Sweet! Now that I can go back to not impressing anyone (wait, I did that last round, right Steven T. Helt? Hmmm...), here are my almost-ran archetypes. Keep in mind that they're in stages of draft, from rough to nearly there.

Preternatural Perfectionist (Alchemist):

Preternatural Perfectionist (Alchemist)
Not all alchemists focus on mutating their flesh without a desired endpoint in mind; some sculpt their very being with the goal of emulating the stranger creations of the world: aberrations.
Aberrant Mutagen (Su): Aberrant mutagens function as the mutagen ability, save instead of enhancing ability scores, preternatural perfectionist choose an ability from the following list in addition to gaining a +2 natural armor bonus: wicked claws (these 2 claws deal 1d6 damage if medium or 1d4 if small); aberrant physiology (as internal organs shift, you gain a 50% chance to negate critical hits); acidic sweat (gain resist acid 10 and anyone attacking you with a natural weapon or a grapple maneuver takes 1d6 of acid damage); winged flight (gain a fly speed equal to your land speed); extensible bones (gain +5 feet to your reach and a climb speed equal to your land speed); quickness (gain an extra move action each round on your turn); malleable form (gain a +10 bonus to disguise yourself and the ability to squeeze through spaces as if you were two sizes smaller); tentacles (gain a tentacle with a 10 foot reach and a grab attack); foul spittle (every 1d4 rounds you can spit a wad of foul phlegm at a target within 30 feet, making a ranged touch attack to hit. The victim must succeed at a Fortitude save or be sickened for 1 round. The Fortitude save is Constitution based); quadrupedal form (gain a +10 foot bonus to your land speed and a +4 bonus to bull rush maneuvers); elongated jaw (gain a bite attack that does 1d8 damage if medium and 1d6 damage if small). While the mutagen is in effect, the drinker takes a penalty of -2 to one of the mental ability scores of the drinker’s choice. This ability replaces mutagen.
Discovery (Su): The preternatural perfectionist changes the following discoveries:
Grand Mutagen: The alchemist’s mutagen now grants a +6 natural armor bonus and three abilities from his list of aberrant mutations. The alchemist takes a –2 penalty to his Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma as long as the mutagen persists. An alchemist must be at least 16th level and must possess the greater mutagen discovery before selecting this discovery.
Greater Mutagen:The alchemist’s mutagen now grants a +4 natural armor bonus and two abilities from his list of aberrant mutations. The alchemist takes a –2 penalty on two mental ability scores as long as the mutagen persists. An alchemist must be at least 12th level before selecting this discovery.

Morbid Saint (Monk):

Morbid Saint (Monk)
Some monks see death as the defining characteristic of life. These monks seek to get as close to death as possible in order to better grasp what it means to be truly alive.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A morbid saint gains martial weapon proficiency with the scythe in addition to normal monk proficiencies.
Glimpse of the End (Su): At 1st level, the monk gains the ability to give his opponent a glimpse of the end of his life. As a standard action, he may make a single attack. Success deals normal damage and forces the target to make a Will save. The DC for this save is equal to 10+1/2 the monk’s level + the monk’s Wisdom modifier. Failure indicates that the target takes a morale penalty to attacks and saves equal to half the monk’s level (minimum of -1) as he is beset by images of his own death. This ability replaces Stunning Fist.
Eschatology (Su) At 2nd level, the morbid saint gains greater insight into his own life and its fragility. When the saint is at less than half his max hit points, he gains a morale bonus to saves, attacks and damage equal to half his monk level. This ability replaces Evasion.
Embracing the End (Ex) At 3rd level a morbid saint gains a +2 bonus against fear effects, as the embrace of death begins to make all other fears diminish. This ability replaces Still Mind.
Deny the Flesh (Su) At 5th level a morbid saint gains DR 10/- versus non-lethal damage and immunity to pain effects. This ability replaces Purity of Body.
Deeper Eschatology (Su) At 9th level the morbid saint’s insight into death begins to crystallize. When his current hit points fall to one quarter of his max hit points, he gains a morale bonus to saves, attacks and damage equal to his monk level. This ability supersedes Eschatology and replaces Improved Evasion.
Master the Mortal Coil (Su) At 11th level the morbid saint may deny even his own mortality for a brief time. Whenever he is exposed to a death effect or damage sufficient to result in death, he can delay the effect or damage for a number of rounds equal to his Wisdom modifier. At the end of this time, if he has not healed the damage or negated the death effect, he suffers them as normal. Any further damage sufficient to kill him taken during this period ends this delay and stacks with the delayed damage. This ability replaces Diamond Body.

Mercurean (Sorcerer):

Mercurean (Sorcerer)
For some sorcerers, it is not only the blood that flows in their veins that brings the power, it is the fickle whims of magic itself. Mercurean sorcerers harness the ebbs and flows of magic and wield it like no other!
Wild Magic Surge (Su): A mercurean can burn his own life energy to enhance the power of his spells. By voluntarily taking 1d6 points of arcane damage per spell level to themselves as part of the spell’s casting, a mercurean can roll a d20 and compare the result to the following chart to gain an effect. The effect is always random and cannot be rerolled. Arcane damage cannot be reduced by DR. Cantrips cannot be modified by a wild magic surge.
1-4 All variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this ability are maximized. Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables.
5-9 Any spell that affects a single target may instead affect two targets. Area effect spells have their areas increased by 50%.
10-14 The spell casts as normal, but automatically recasts on the caster’s next round. It affects the same target but does not deal any more arcane damage to the caster.
15-19 Your caster level for the spell is treated as 4 higher for the purposes of variable, numeric effects and overcoming Spell Resistance.
20 Wondermaker: the spell’s effects are replaced with a random effect from the rod of wonder chart. Roll a d100 and consult the chart to determine results.
This ability replaces the normal bloodline power of your bloodline.
Mercurial Arcana(Su): The inherent instability of the magic in your blood allows you to bend the rules for your bloodline. You may replace the usual bloodline spell you would gain with a spell from another class’s spell list. This spell must be of a level one lower than the highest level you can cast. It becomes a sorcerer spell for you of the same level as the bloodline spell you traded for it. Otherwise it functions as normal, using your sorcerer level as the spell’s caster level. This ability replaces the usual bloodline spell.

War Dancer (Bard):

War Dancer(Bard)
In war, even dance can be a weapon. A war dancer utilizes grace and rhythm to deadly effectiveness.
Spells: Unlike a normal bard, war dancer spells do not require verbal components but do require somantic components, usually in the form of a dance.
Bardic Performance: A war dancer gains the following types of bardic performance. War dancer bard performances rely exclusively on somantic or visual components, never auditory components.
Combat Momentum (Ex): When a war dancer moves more than 10 feet in round before an attack, they can add +1d6 to their melee damage when attacking with a one-handed weapon. This damage is not multiplied on a critical hit. At 5th level and every five levels after, this bonus increases by 1d6. This ability replaces countersong.
Dancer’s Grace (Ex) The war dancer gains evasion, as the rogue ability. This ability replaces Inspire Competence.
Whirling Dance of Death (Ex): The war dancer gains the feat Whirlwind Attack, even if they do not meet the prerequisites for it. This ability replaces suggestion.
Danse Macabre (Su) As a full round action the war dancer can perform a dance designed to stun or incapitate his opponents. Opponents within 30 feet who can see the peeformance must make a Will Save with a DC equal to the result of the dancer’s Perform: Dance skill check. Sucess indicates the viewer is dazed for 1 round. Failure depends on the hit dice of the viewer: viewers with equal or more hit dice than the bard’s class level are staggered for 1 round; viewers with less hit dice than the bard’s class level are stunned for a number of rounds equal to the Charisma modifier of the dancer; viewers with 10 less hit dice or more than the bard’s class levels fall unconscious for a number of rounds equal to the bard’s class level. This ability replaces frightening tune.
Dance of Death (Su): As a full round action, the war dancer may move up to her speed across the battlefield, making a single attack against every enemy in reach. She may move in any direction she wishes, but she must end up at least half her speed away from where she started. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This ability replaces mass suggestion.
Dancer’s Momentum (Ex): A war dancer’s natural tendency toward grace and movement grant her resistance to effects that limit her movement. She gains an immunity to paralysis as well as a +4 to her CMD versus grapples. This ability replaces well-versed.

[Charles Evans 25]

James Martin wrote:

Sweet! Now that I can go back to not impressing anyone (wait, I did that last round, right Steven T. Helt? Hmmm...), here are my almost-ran archetypes. Keep in mind that they're in stages of draft, from rough to nearly there.

...Mercurean (Sorcerer)** spoiler omitted **...

No thoughts at present on the other archetypes, but when the contest says 'don't design a new bloodline', I feel an archetype which replaces bloodline powers and spells is not a good route to go...

:-?

[Eric Hindley]

Ok, here`s the rough draft of my alternate choice. I didn't go with it because it felt too much like replacing the school powers would be seen as too close to making a new school.

Spoiler:

Court Magician (Wizard)
Some wizards seek more than the solitary life of a reclusive bookworm; they seek to influence the political arenas of the world with a silver tongue and a few subtle enchantments.
Master of Courtly Manners (Ex) The court magician gains Bluff and Diplomacy as class skills. In addition, he gains a +1 bonus on Diplomacy, Knowledge (local) and Knowledge (nobility) checks. This bonus increases by +1 for every 3 wizard levels the court magician possesses. In addition, whenever the court magician casts a detect spell (such as detect magic or detect poison), he can maintain concentration as a move action instead of a standard action. He still cannot cast another spell while maintaining concentration, but can take other actions as normal. This ability replaces arcane bond.
Arcane School A court magician may not specialize in a school and gains the following abilities in place of the normal universal abilities:
Subtle Spellcaster (Ex): The court magician may make a Bluff check to disguise his spellcasting with quieter verbal and more subtle somatic components. Anyone viewing the caster may make a Spellcraft check to identify that a spell is being cast, opposed by the result of the bluff check. If the viewer succeeds by 5 or more, he can also identify the spell being cast, exactly as per the Spellcraft skill. This ability replaces hand of the apprentice.
Precise Spellcasting (Ex) At 8th level, the court magician gains a better control over area of effect spells. When casting spells with an area or line of effect, the court magician can choose a number of targets equal to ½ his intelligence modifier to be unaffected by the spell, as if they were outside the area. In addition, if the spell would normally cause collateral damage, such as a fireball’s ability to ignite combustibles, the court magician can choose to ignore those effects. This ability replaces metamagic mastery.

[Matt Banach]

Manhunter (Inquisitor)

Spoiler:

Manhunter (Inquisitor)

Instead of rallying allies to a cause, a manhunter stalks her prey like a lone wolf, hunting relentlessly until justice is done. That justice might be returning a fugitive to the dungeons of House Thrune, recovering artifacts pilfered from an Osiriani tomb, or dispatching a Mendevian heretic to the afterlife's final judgment. A manhunter has the following class features.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Manhunters are proficient with one of the following weapons in addition to their normal weapon proficiencies: bola, lasso, net, mancatcher, or sap.

They Cannot Hide (Ex): At 1st level, the manhunter adds her Intelligence modifier in addition to her Wisdom modifier when making Perception skill checks to notice a creature using Stealth (minimum +1). This ability replaces monster lore.

They Cannot Run (Sp): At 2nd level, a manhunter can use tireless pursuit at will. This ability replaces detect alignment.

Manhunter Feat: At 3rd level, and every three levels thereafter, the manhunter gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement. These bonus feats must be selected from the manhunter bonus feats listed below. The manhunter must meet the prerequisites of the selected bonus feat. These feats replace teamwork feats.

Manhunter feats: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Catch Off-Guard, Deadly Aim, Endurance, Fleet, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Quick Draw, Rapid Reload, Run, Self-Sufficient, Skill Focus, Throw Anything.

Whatever It Takes (Ex): At 3rd level, as a standard action, the manhunter can choose to learn a new bonus manhunter feat in place of the most recent bonus manhunter feat she has already learned. In effect, the manhunter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. She can only change the most recent manhunter feat gained. Whenever she gains a new manhunter feat, the previous manhunter feat becomes set and cannot be changed again. A manhunter can change her most recent manhunter feat a number of times per day equal to her Wisdom modifier. This ability replaces solo tactics.

Huntsman (Su): At 5th level, a manhunter can imbue one of her weapons with the huntsman weapon special ability as a swift action. This ability only functions while the manhunter wields the weapon. If dropped or taken, the weapon resumes granting this ability if it is returned to the manhunter before the duration expires. This ability lasts for a number of rounds per day equal to the manhunter’s level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive. This ability replaces bane.

Greater Huntsman (Su): At 12th level, whenever a manhunter uses her huntsman ability, the amount of bonus damage dealt by the weapon against creatures the manhunter has tracked with Survival in the past day increases to 3d6. This ability replaces greater bane.

[Cody Coffelt]

Azmahel wrote:

Nice. I too pondered how evolution points can be harnessed by other classes (making them really worth all the space they take up). And mutagens are really a perfect fit. So perfect in fact that i would be surprised if there wasn't something like this in Ultimate Magic or Combat.

It's something I was really pushing for during the APG playtest. Evolutions just take up a huge chunk of the book for one feature of one class to use them alone. I went with the Hound Master because I felt it would play with the audience a little better than Mutagenist. Allowing evolution points can be a bit of a can of worms, and I didn't want to carry over the Stigma of summoners. I think more people may dislike summoner than cavalier. Looking at Ryan's comments on the Fleshbinder alternate archtype it seems that I wouldn't have had much fear from 'can of worms' after all.

[Azmahel]

Cody Coffelt wrote:

Azmahel wrote:

Nice. I too pondered how evolution points can be harnessed by other classes (making them really worth all the space they take up). And mutagens are really a perfect fit. So perfect in fact that i would be surprised if there wasn't something like this in Ultimate Magic or Combat.

It's something I was really pushing for during the APG playtest. Evolutions just take up a huge chunk of the book for one feature of one class to use them alone. I went with the Hound Master because I felt it would play with the audience a little better than Mutagenist. Allowing evolution points can be a bit of a can of worms, and I didn't want to carry over the Stigma of summoners. I think more people may dislike summoner than cavalier. Looking at Ryan's comments on the Fleshbinder alternate archtype it seems that I wouldn't have had much fear from 'can of worms' after all.

I think that you chose well, given the popularity of the hound master.

That said, I too think that the mutagenist would have passed too, but not as elegantly. You Aceing this round might help you glancing over problems in the next after all.

[Mikko Kallio]

James Martin wrote:

Sweet! Now that I can go back to not impressing anyone (wait, I did that last round, right Steven T. Helt? Hmmm...), here are my almost-ran archetypes. Keep in mind that they're in stages of draft, from rough to nearly there.

** spoiler omitted **...

I took a look at the Mercurean, here are a few comments on it:

* I really like the name! It looks and sounds cool, and it reminds me of the word "mercurial" which describes pretty well the core concept of the archetype.
* 1d6 points of arcane damage <- Is "arcane damage" an official game term? If not, you should probably just say "damage" and then mention that it cannot be diverted, reduced, etc.
* The random effects table is fun, and since you have to make an extra roll only when you activate wild magic surge, it doesn't slow the game down enough to matter. :)
* The first effect could read "..as though affected by the Maximize Spell feat" to save a few words.
* Wondermaker is just... umm. Don't go there! :D
* I like mercurial arcana, it bends the rules but the limitation makes it difficult to abuse.

Summary: Neat concept, with a few changes it'd make an awesome archetype. :)

[James Martin]

Serpent wrote:

/QUOTE]

I took a look at the Mercurean, here are a few comments on it:
* I really like the name! It looks and sounds cool, and it reminds me of the word "mercurial" which describes pretty well the core concept of the archetype.
* 1d6 points of arcane damage <- Is "arcane damage" an official game term? If not, you should probably just say "damage" and then mention that it cannot be diverted, reduced, etc.
* The random effects table is fun, and since you have to make an extra roll only when you activate wild magic surge, it doesn't slow the game down enough to matter. :)
* The first effect could read "..as though affected by the Maximize Spell feat" to save a few words.
* Wondermaker is just... umm. Don't go there! :D
* I like mercurial arcana, it bends the rules but the limitation makes it difficult to abuse.

Summary: Neat concept, with a few changes it'd make an awesome archetype. :)

Thanks! I like your edits. It was a challenge of mine to make a wild mage without making it a bloodline. Unforunately when I shopped the concepts around to my braintrust, it didn't score as high as the Crooked Man or the War Dancer, which were neck in neck for which one would get in. Oh well, that's the way it goes. Maybe we as fans should exercise our rights to create a Wayfinder-like supplement of new archetypes for the game? We can't use the ones we submitted, but we surely can use the ones we didn't!

[Mikko Kallio]

James Martin wrote:

Maybe we as fans should exercise our rights to create a Wayfinder-like supplement of new archetypes for the game? We can't use the ones we submitted, but we surely can use the ones we didn't!

Interesting idea. :) I have two rejected archetypes: Channeler (Sorcerer) and Hellrider (Cavalier). The Channeler is detailed above while the Hellrider is basically a non-good cavalier whose mount becomes an outsider (for the purposes of determining which spells affect it) and gains darkvision, and at later levels it gets flaming hooves and a fly speed.

[Steven Helt]

James Martin wrote:

Sweet! Now that I can go back to not impressing anyone (wait, I did that last round, right Steven T. Helt? Hmmm...), here are my almost-ran archetypes. Keep in mind that they're in stages of draft, from rough to nearly there.

** spoiler omitted **...

Heya - I just stumbled on this thread, and I wanted to point out that I didn't comment on your magic item this year. Also, I thought it was one of the better items in the batch.

I don't remember your archetype, which i'll go look up. But if I panned it, don't take it personlly. I didn't like most of them AND I'm not the only one, right?

Anyhoo, sorry if I ruffled your feathers and all. I can't be the only one.

[James Martin]

Steven T. Helt wrote:

I don't remember your archetype, which i'll go look up. But if I panned it, don't take it personlly. I didn't like most of them AND I'm not the only one, right?

Anyhoo, sorry if I ruffled your feathers and all. I can't be the only one.

Oh, don't trouble yourself. You didn't ruffle me much at all. Your criticism just struck me as particularly amusing.

[Cody Coffelt]

I still think the hardest part of this competition is growing the beard.

[Cody Coffelt]

Huh, I meant for that post to go into the Guild Hall...not sure how it ended up here.